Forget & Forgive?

[Chuck Miller]

Al,

You asked:
First, how to recognize when someone has gone beyond the description in 2:25-26 and become one of those described in 3:8.

Second, based on the answer to the first, how we should know when to observe the instruction of 3:5c, to
"Avoid such people?"
KJV: "from such turn away";
NIV: "Have nothing to do with them.";
NASB: "Avoid such men as these.";
Phillips: "You must keep clear of people like this."
--------------------------------------------
Al,

I would say simply that when someone has become one who is described in [2Tim] 3:8, they have gone beyond [2 Tim] 2:25-26 and we should follow Paul’s instruction and turn away from them and avoid them.  However, again, we must guard against any ensuing animosity.  Please understand, I am not concerned about George’s welfare, but for the welfare of those who are battling bitterness. And remember, we are told:
   
Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
Or the LORD will see it and be displeased,
And turn His anger away from him.
Do not fret because of evildoers
Or be envious of the wicked;
For there will be no future for the evil man;
The lamp of the wicked will be put out.             Proverbs 24:17-20

All I’m saying is that the Lord’s promises are true and we must not fret out of impatience because He isn‘t acting on our time schedule.  “The lamp of the wicked will be put out” That is a guarantee. 
Speak out against unrighteousness and refute false doctrine, but, let me repeat it one more time - guard your heart  against bitterness - for your own sake.  BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity”  (Ephesians 4:26-27)

In His service, 

Chuck

[Oscar]

Chuck,

You asked how I would explain Matthew 18:18 and John 20:23.

This was, of course, within our discussion of Overcomerism.  Actually, it is quite simple.  

The context shows that the authority given to the apostles and the church was to be exercised on the earth.  For example in Matthew 18:20 it says, "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."  Since the church is on the earth, the application of the verse is as well.  The promise empowers the church with heavenly sanction.  That, however, does not imply that the consequences are heavenly.  The Roman Catholics made this error, and ended up with purgatory.  Most of the Overcomer" teachers also have some form of purgation.

The John 20:23 verse, in context, applies to Christ's sending the apostles into the world.  Verse 21 says, "...as the Father sent me, I am sending you."  The Father send Christ into the world.

I am not ignoring the fact that heaven's authority accompanies the (legitimate) decisions of the church.  But there is nothing in the verses
which indicate heavenly consequences.  On the other hand, there are many verses that speak of earthly consequences for sinful behavior among Christians.  

Some examples: 1. Hebrews 12:7-12.  2. I Corinthians 11:27-32.  

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux
Undercomer

[Chuck Miller]

      [Continued from above]

Tom,

YOU WROTE:  6. The Overcomer teaching changes our entire basis for Christian life and service from loving gratitude to our all sufficient savior to a fearful anticipation of judgement that cannot be relieved by any of the Bible’s promises.  One just never knows if they will receive a passing score for a “full” salvation.

MY RESPONSE:  Whatever it is that you are speaking of here, Tom, it certainly isn’t what I believe, so I’d prefer that you discontinue associating me with “The Overcomer teaching” that you describe  and confine your criticism to what you know that I do believe.
 

***************

YOU WROTE:  There is much more that could be said, but I think this is adequate to show why I, at least will not be riding on the Overcomerism bus any time soon.

MY RESPONSE:  I don’t consider myself an “ite” ( as in Campbellite) or an “ist” (as in Baptist or Methodist ), nor do I “ride on buses” of “isms”  ( as in Overcomerism, Baconianism, or Calvinism).  I don’t subscribe to dividing the body of Christ into factions, or denominations.  We are followers of Jesus Christ who hold to some different beliefs, but should seek to become of the same mind and in the same judgment so that there will be no division between us. (1 Cor 1:10).  I could be in error.  If you believe so, correct me.

***************

YOU WROTE:  You asked how I would explain Matthew 18:18 and John 20:23.
This was, of course, within our discussion of Overcomerism.  Actually, it is quite simple. 

The context shows that the authority given to the apostles and the church was to be exercised on the earth.  For example in Matthew 18:20 it says, "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."  Since the church is on the earth, the application of the verse is as well.  The promise empowers the church with heavenly sanction.

MY RESPONSE:  Your answers raise some questions in my mind, Tom.  Authority to do what?  Matthew 18:18 reads: “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven” Exactly what is it that is "bound" or "loosed" on earth? 
 

***************

YOU WROTE:  That, however, does not imply that the consequences are heavenly.  The Roman Catholics made this error, and ended up with purgatory.  Most of the Overcomer" teachers also have some form of purgation.

The John 20:23 verse, in context, applies to Christ's sending the apostles into the world.  Verse 21 says, "...as the Father sent me, I am sending you."  The Father send Christ into the world.

MY RESPONSE:  John 20:23 reads: "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."  What happens to a sinner whose sins are retained?   Are there any after-death consequences to a sinful or unfaithful Christian life?
 

***************

YOU WROTE:  I am not ignoring the fact that heaven's authority accompanies the (legitimate) decisions of the church.  But there is nothing in the verses which indicate heavenly consequences.
On the other hand, there are many verses that speak of earthly consequences for sinful behavior among Christians.  Some examples: 1. Hebrews 12:7-12.  2. I Corinthians 11:27-32. 

MY RESPONSE:  Jesus’ decree, ”whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven” sounds to me like there will be heavenly consequences as well.

More later,

God bless, 
Chuck

 

[Chuck Miller]

Tom,

We're going out of town for the weekend, so, I'll address some of your response now and the rest later. 
 

***************

YOU WROTE:  Major Christian doctrines are taught in clear passages.  This is known by theologians as the “perspicuity of scripture.”  This Overcomer teaching is not clearly taught in any passage.  Its proponents see it all over the Bible. 

But you have to already believe it and read into passages where it is not explicitly taught. 

MY RESPONSE:  You never say which of the “Major Christian doctrines” you ascribe to, Tom, nor do you quote the “clear passages” in which it is taught.   And perhaps you could tell me how you came to accept it.  The “Kingdom” teaching , that I find to be in harmony with all of scripture is, as you say, “all over the Bible.”  Is that bad? 
 

***************

YOU WROTE:  This teaching concerns the very nature of salvation, and therefore qualifies as a “major”, if not “the major” Christian doctrine.

MY RESPONSE:  To me, it certainly is a major Christian doctrine.  Yes, it concerns the very nature of salvation, beginning with condemnation and progressing through  justification, sanctification, and glorification. 
 

***************

YOU WROTE:  5. The overcomer teaching is a recent innovation.  To me, the idea that the apostles failed to transmit the message of salvation clearly to their disciples is incredible.  That is what you must believe if you accept this teaching.  The church at large, in this view, did not really understand salvation until the 19th century!  I just can’t buy that.

MY RESPONSE:  For centuries, the teaching on salvation by grace through faith alone (Sola Fide) was obscured by the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings on Salvation through works, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Bible plus Tradition (theirs),  Papal Succession, etc., etc., etc.  It wasn’t until the early in the sixteenth century that Luther opened the door to the then “new” doctrine.”  Those who rebelled against the dominant Catholic doctrine (which, in many countries, had even become the doctrine of the state) became - as they came to be called - “Protestants.”  Had the apostles failed to transmit the message of salvation clearly to their disciples?  I don’t think so.  But wolves and Judaizers came in with their false doctrines and drew many away.  Much of what was written in the apostle’s letters to the churches was written to combat those false doctrines.

And here we are in the twenty first century and according to George Barna, many in “the church at large“ still don’t believe, or even understand, or agree upon, much of what the Bible teaches.


       [Continued below]

[Chuck Miller]

Tom,

In giving your reasons why you feel that the "Overcomer" teachings of Dillow, Hodges and others is wrong, you make, what I consider to be, a very questionable observation.  I'm referring to your post #58 of November 3rd in which you list 3 reasons why you believe the teachings are "wrong in a number of serious ways"

I am not knowledgeable regarding the "Scientific Method" that you claim was used by these men for interpreting scripture, nor am I aware of any of the "other methods" that you classify as "legitimate" interpretive methods.  I am curious to know how you have arrived at your conclusion and would like to know whether it is a result of your own deduction, or if you have taken it from something you read?

In my own case, I have never attempted to determine what "method" these men used in developing their doctrines, nor have I attempted to do so concerning other theologians, most of whom fall into groups commonly referred to as "Calvinists," or "Arminians," (or variations of them).   Inasmuch as you seem to be very confident in your assessment, Tom, I would like to ask you the question it brings to mind - Who determines which interpretive method is "legitimate," and how did they become qualified to make that determination?

Consider my problem when I discover that we have had many theologians, all of whom have claimed that they arrived at "the truth" concerning issues such as Eternal Security, Predestination, Election, The Gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc., etc., etc.  And each of them assures us that they have "studied the scriptures long and hard and, that the scriptures are their only source of truth."  Many of them have contradicted the opinions of other theologians who also assure us that they have "studied the scriptures long and hard and, that the scriptures are their only source of truth."  We might even find that they have used identical "interpretive methods" in doing so, yet, oddly enough, have arrived at conflicting ideas concerning those issues, some of which are even diametrically opposed to those of their "opponents" (for that is what they become).  Many of them, in order to distinguish themselves from others,  take a name - i.e. Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc. etc., etc.  They have no aversion to being called a "denomination."  This, I believe, is derived from the Latin  nomen  for "name," and denominatus  - "to name."  These denominational theologians give no indication that they consider it possible that they could be wrong in what they believe.  Many publish a "doctrinal statement," the acceptance of which may then becomes a requirement for "membership" in their denomination.

Then there is Roman Catholicism, that, some erroneously claim, is just another denomination of Christianity.  But they too have their method of interpreting scriptures - one that they claim is the only  legitimate  method.  It's called "Papal Infallibility."  And since they preach a "different" gospel, it becomes apparent that their claim of  "legitimacy" is merely a self-serving postulation, and, therefore, unacceptable as a criteria for scriptural interpretation.

In like manner, Tom, I would have to regard your claim of "legitimacy' simply on the basis of your subjective opinion, no differently than I can accept the Catholic's claim of infallibility in regard to theirs.  After all, aren't your claims of "legitimacy," in actuality, just another term for "infallibility?"

As I've sought, and continue to seek, the truth of God's word in order to appropriate it for my own life, there are certain things that I try to keep in mind.

I'm a fallible human being and as such, will probably be subjective to what I've been taught by others, all of whom are also fallible human beings.  Only God's word is infallible.  I want to be firm in my convictions, yet not to the extreme of being "locked in" to any doctrinal position or teaching.  Therefore, except for those basic tenets about which all Christians agree, I must be willing to admit that I could be in error in what I believe and be willing to change should I be proven wrong.

I believe that Jesus has sent the Holy Spirit to help us in our pursuit of truth, and if we abide in His Word, we will know the truth, and the truth will set us free.

I recognize that God has given to the church, some who are teachers, and I have to try to determine if the one to whom I am listening is one of those, or whether he is a false teacher, while always guarding against viewing any one of them as being above error.  First and foremost, I want to avoid being a follower of any man, except the man, Christ Jesus.  Although I don't disdain the use of commentaries in seeking biblical truth, I do feel it's a mistake to rush to read those of one's "favorite" theologian when confronted with a question concerning a doctinal truth.  I often find it just as profitable to read dissenting opinions, since that may be where the truth is found.

Tom, these thoughts are just some of the basic principles I try to use, but even as I think about, and share these thoughts, I remember that the pursuit of truth is a never-ending process.  We are continually learning - or I should say - being taught.  For we don't always learn what the Lord is trying to teach us - at least, not immediately.   I can now see, in retrospect, how He was trying to teach me His ways about His church and how leadership in it is supposed to function, but, I was rash in receiving George Geftakys as "God's servant" without verifying, by God's word, what he said and did. That was costly.  But then, I've found that it's always costly and painful when we ignore God's warnings or disobey His commands.

So, I'll sign off on this, Tom, and respond later to your two other reasons stated in your post #58.

In His service,

Chuck

[Chuck Miller]

Tom,
 I would like to respond to your reason #6 for feeling  that this [“Overcomer“] teaching is wrong in a number of very serious ways.  You wrote:

6. The Overcomer teaching changes our entire basis for Christian life and service from loving gratitude to our all sufficient savior to a fearful anticipation of judgement that cannot be relieved by any of the Bible’s promises.  One just never knows if they will receive a passing score for a “full” salvation.

RESPONSE:  I believe you have misunderstood the teachings of Dillow, Hodges and some of the others who teach on the doctrine of the kingdom, and what I believe concerning it, Tom, but rather than reiterate much of what I say in my own writing on the subject, I thought it would be profitable to all if you could give your explanation of certain scriptures that I myself had found hard to explain in reference to a believer’s eternal security

Philippians 2:12
 
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Question:  How am I, a believer,  to “work out” my salvation?

2 Thessalonians 1:5

This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.

Question:  How can I, a believer,  be considered “worthy” of the kingdom?

Romans 8:16-17

The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Question: What is it to which we are fellow heirs with Christ?

1 Corinthians 10:11-12

Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.

Question:  In looking at verses 1-10 that precede 11 and 12, what happens if we do fall?

I have more questions Tom, but these are some that came to trouble me after I had accepted the premise that a believer could not lose his/her salvation.

God bless,

Chuck

[vernecarty]

Interesting discussion.
I will make the very brief observation that a lot of erroneous thinking about the destiny of believers has to do with an improper understanding of the Biblical teaching of sonship, which is directly related to the entire question of inheritance.
You are either a son, or you are illegitimate, spiritually speaking.
The distinction that the Scripture makes among those who are sons, is not whether or not they will inherit, but when.
The when of inheritance is conditioned only by the heir's maturity.
An understanding of this simple principle would go a long way toward dispelling a lot of the confusion regarding some of the more difficult warnings and caveats issued in Scripture - you have to be clear on who is being addressed...
Verne

[Chuck Miller]

You are either a son, or you are illegitimate, spiritually speaking.
The distinction that the Scripture makes among those who are sons, is not whether or not they will inherit, but when.
The when of inheritance is conditioned only by the heir's maturity.
An understanding of this simple principle would go a long way toward dispelling a lot of the confusion regarding some of the more difficult warnings and caveats issued in Scripture - you have to be clear on who is being addressed...
Verne

Verne,
A couple of quick questions.
1.  What will the sons inherit?
2.  When will they inherit it?

Chuck

[vernecarty]

Verne,
A couple of quick questions.
1.  What will the sons inherit?
2.  When will they inherit it?

Chuck

Great Questions Chuck.
The fact that you did not ask who are sons probably suggests that we are in broad agreement about who comprise that category. 
As to the what of inheritance, I will do a bit of thinking and soon post a few suggestions that I trust will have Scriptural warrant.
I think it is good to keep in mind that inheritance per se, is strictly a function of relationship.
Rewards, on the other hand, are clearly presented as being dependent on assesment of the quality of our work. How have I built? Gold? Silver? Precious Stones? or Wood, Hay, Stubble.
I have been looking at some of these 300.000.00 plus houses in Champaign and some of these builders here are really scary...

[Joe Sperling]

Chuck---

William Bridge, an old Puritan writer,  has a very comforting book in which he mentions
how "scripture answers scripture". One scripture will say from "our" perspective: "work
out your salvation with fear and trembling" but this will be answered with "who WILL
confirm you to the end". I think a lot of the scriptures which can cast doubt are answered
by other scriptures which remove all doubt.

"If ye continue..."(casts doubt and implies one can falter or fall)--answered by "And the very God of
peace sanctify you wholly, and your whole spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless unto the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Faithful is He that calls you WHO ALSO WILL DO IT" (1 Thess.
5:23,24).

Unfortunately, people like George didn't like 1Thess 5:24 and he tried to imply one could have
his spirit sanctified, but wind up coming in incomplete in the soul area. He just couldn't accept
a "finished" work. As Scripture says: We are saved(inheritance) UNTO good works(these works
will be judged, but this doesn't make the person someone who didn't "overcome", as all christians
are overcomers!! We are overcomers because he already overcame!!!)

1 John 5:5:
"Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes Jesus is the Son of God?". All true christians are overcomers. Because our overcoming is not dependent upon US, but upon a finished work won on the cross.

--Joe

[Oscar]

Tom,
 I would like to respond to your reason #6 for feeling  that this [“Overcomer“] teaching is wrong in a number of very serious ways.  You wrote:

RESPONSE:  I believe you have misunderstood the teachings of Dillow, Hodges and some of the others who teach on the doctrine of the kingdom, and what I believe concerning it, Tom, but rather than reiterate much of what I say in my own writing on the subject, I thought it would be profitable to all if you could give your explanation of certain scriptures that I myself had found hard to explain in reference to a believer’s eternal security

Philippians 2:12
 
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Question:  How am I, a believer,  to “work out” my salvation?

2 Thessalonians 1:5

This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.

Question:  How can I, a believer,  be considered “worthy” of the kingdom?

Romans 8:16-17

The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Question: What is it to which we are fellow heirs with Christ?

1 Corinthians 10:11-12

Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.

Question:  In looking at verses 1-10 that precede 11 and 12, what happens if we do fall?

I have more questions Tom, but these are some that came to trouble me after I had accepted the premise that a believer could not lose his/her salvation.

God bless,

Chuck

Chuck,

I will respond to these posts, but I am about to leave town for a couple of days.  I will be back on Sunday afternoon, and then will get to it as soon as I can.  It may be Monday, though.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

[Chuck Miller]

Quote from Joe Sperling  on: November 10, 2005

"Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes Jesus is the Son of God?". All true christians are overcomers. Because our overcoming is not dependent upon US, but upon a finished work won on the cross.
 

Joe,

You include a qualifying factor in your definition of "overcomers."  How am I to distinguish the difference between  a “true” Christian and a false Christian?

Chuck

[Joe Sperling]

Chuck----

Only the Lord knows who is a true believer. My point is that anyone who truly
believes in Jesus Christ WILL overcome, because we are "in Christ" and he has
ALREADY overcome. There are those who teach that "true" believers may not
overcome(as George did), confusing the "rewards" at the BEMA seat with the
inheritance which is "sealed" by the Holy Spirit for all believers.

I will say this though (in my opinion)--those who were deeply bothered about not
overcoming were most likely true believers, because why would an unsaved person
be concerned about the inheritance?

Another point I would add is that Satan's greatest hatred of all are the words "It is
finished", because they are three words which signaled his defeat. He will do ANYTHING
to hide, manipulate, or lessen the power of those words. If he can keep a Christian worrying,
or trying to be "good enough" to "overcome", he has focused that person on his own works,
rather than on what has ALREADY been DONE for him. The Bible says we are "seated" with
Christ in the Heavenlies, and that we are "more than conquerors". Romans 8:30 says in the
past tense that we are "justified, sanctified and glorified". And 1 John 5:5 says that he who
believes in Jesus Christ HAS overcome the world. These are "finished" things---and Satan rages
at that concept. "NO!!!! It's not over!! It's not finished!! You could still lose!!! You better work
hard, 'cause you just might lose out!!" And that's where "religion" comes from--a concept that
it's not finished--we must work, we must try, we might just lose out in the end if we're not good
enough. As long as it isn't finished, Satan still has the upper hand, and it dishonors the victory that
Jesus has accomplished for all Christians on the cross.

Every cult and every aberrant group always "adds" something to what Christ has accomplished. It is an attempt by the enemy to thwart the words "IT IS FINISHED". In the Assembly it was "yes, you
are saved, but that is just a doorway.." This in effect belittled salvation to "just" being a starting point to a journey to overcoming. And this overcoming depended on US. When, in reality, salvation is a "completion" that we rejoice more and more in as we realize what ALREADY is ours. It's "do" vs. "done"--and we really do far more  good when we realize what is already DONE, than when we strive to "DO" good as a basis for overcoming.

--Joe

[Chuck Miller]

Joe, 

My comments on your post of November 10th

Chuck---
William Bridge, an old Puritan writer, has a very comforting book in which he mentions how "scripture answers scripture". One scripture will say from "our" perspective: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" but this will be answered with "who WILL confirm you to the end". I think a lot of the scriptures which can cast doubt are answered by other scriptures which remove all doubt.

It certainly would be very comforting, Joe, if I could believe that there will be no after death consequences to a careless Christian life.  As I constantly battle the desires of my flesh, I think of what Paul said - “but I buffet (discipline) my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified” (1 Corinthians 9:27).  From what was Paul  concerned about being disqualified?  Certainly not his eternal life.  And if Paul was concerned about it, should not I be? 

Look up the meaning of “salvation” (soteria ) in the Greek, Joe, and see that one of its primary usages in scripture is “deliverance.”   I believe that “working out our salvation” has to do with working out our deliverance from our fleshly desires.   

I believe that Paul was no different than you and I, in that he too was constantly battling his fleshly desires.  This is pure conjecture on my part, but I like to think of the “thorn in the flesh” of which Paul speaks in  2 Corinthians 12:7 as being some sort of fleshly desire or even lust that he could not completely master, saying, “Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself!” Perhaps the Lord was showing Paul that he was still just a man.
 

"If ye continue..."(casts doubt and implies one can falter or fall)--answered by "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and your whole spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Faithful is He that calls you WHO ALSO WILL DO IT" (1 Thess.5:23,24).

Joe, I’ve even prayed - “Lord, just take over my will so that I don’t even have an opportunity to sin against you,” - but it doesn’t happen.  It wasn’t until the end of his life that we find Paul attesting,  “For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing“ (2 Timothy 4:6-8).
When Paul was speaking of “fighting the good fight,” “finishing the course,” and having “kept the faith,” I believe he’s talking about his sanctification.  And the “crown of righteousness” bespeaks his glorification. The Catholic Church teaches that justification is a process and we can never be assured of our salvation until our earthly life is over.

Unfortunately, people like George didn't like 1Thess 5:24 and he tried to imply one could have his spirit sanctified, but wind up coming in incomplete in the soul area. He just couldn't accept a "finished" work. As Scripture says: We are saved (inheritance) UNTO good works (these works will be judged, but this doesn't make the person someone who didn't "overcome", as all Christians are overcomers!! We are overcomers because he already overcame!!!) 1 John 5:5:

"Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes Jesus is the Son of God?". All true christians are overcomers. Because our overcoming is not dependent upon US, but upon a finished work won on the cross.

I believe that in the book of Revelation, John is speaking of “overcoming” in the same sense as Paul spoke in 2 Timothy.  In 1 John, I believe he is viewing it in the sense of the completed work of Christ and the sufficiency of that work in appropriating it in our own life to overcome sin - the key being, to “abide in Him.“  (verses 2:6, 10, 14; 24, 27, 28; 3:6, 9, 24, 12, 13, 15, 16).  He has overcome the world and we overcome, but only as we abide in Him and in His word. 

I’m puzzled, Joe,  by your parenthetic equating of “saved” with “inheritance."  Would you mind explaining the significance of your reference.

God bless,

Chuck

[Joe Sperling]

Chuck----

I agree with you that there will be consequences for how you lived your Christian
life. These will be dealt with at the "Judgement Seat of Christ", where crowns will
be awarded, etc., and where some will "be saved though as by fire". But George
(and others) have taught a Christian can lose the Inheritance, or even be thrown
into the lake of fire.

The reason I put saved(inheritance) together is because I believe the Scriptures teach
that when you are saved you have "inherited all things". The Bible doesn't teach you
can lose the inheritance.

"Therefore, let no man glory in man for all things ARE(now) yours. Whether Paul, or Apollos,
or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come, all ARE(now)
yours, and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's"(I Cor. 3:21-23).

"In whom also we HAVE OBTAINED an Inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose
of him who works all things after the counsel of his will."(Eph. 1:11).  Note: Doesn't say "might obtain".

"In whom after that ye believed, ye WERE SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise, which IS(now)
the earnest of our Inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possesion."(a finished matter).

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. To
an Inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, RESERVED in heaven for you,
who ARE KEPT by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."(1Pet. 1:1:3-5).

I think a matter that caused a lot of confusion is WHAT the inheritance is. George spoke of it as kind of like a "place"--like crossing Jordan into the promised land. But do you remember what the inheritance of the Levites was? Their Inheritance was the Lord himself.  As Christians we are as the Levites--priests and Kings(per 1 Peter). Our Inheritance is Jesus Christ himself!! When we receive Jesus Christ into our hearts we have received the Inheritance. What would the "inheritance" or heaven be like without Jesus there? Once we receive Jesus into our hearts and are saved, can we ever lose him? "I will never leave you nor forsake you". Romans 8 teaches that NOTHING can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. If the Inheritance is Jesus(and I believe he is our inheritance) I can never LOSE him---"he who comes to me I will in NO WISE cast out". I cannot scripturally call Jesus the Inheritance, but I do remember the hymn that says "Where Jesus is tis Heaven there". Since I can never lose Jesus, I could never lose Heaven.

--Joe