one bb, indivisible

[1 al Hartman]

Is there a difference between Moonflower & Moonflower2?

Same person-- Split personality.

al

[moonflower2]

Is there a difference between Moonflower & Moonflower2?

Yes. One has a 2 at the end.

[moonflower2]

Same person-- Split personality.

al

Could just be indicative of extra baggage (2). As a matter of fact, I just came across a bag of "prayer hankies" with LHal embroidered on them in various colors. He must have had multiple personalities that needed expression via crayola-colored threads. 

[Elizabeth H]

Yes. One has a 2 at the end.

So which one are you? 1 or 2?

[1 al Hartman]

Could just be indicative of extra baggage (2). As a matter of fact, I just came across a bag of "prayer hankies" with LHal embroidered on them in various colors. He must have had multiple personalities that needed expression via crayola-colored threads. 

There is only ONE LHal, but many evil twins!!!

[Chuck Miller]

Brothers and Sisters,

I'm having a difficult time understanding how the use of pseudonyms serves any useful purpose in Christian dialogue. 

Chuck Miller

[Elizabeth H]

don't take it too personally, chuck.

if you're looking for a "useful purpose" and "christian dialogue" you might be posting on the wrong board.

 

[Chuck Miller]

Elizabeth,

Thanks  - you may be right.  So I'll just say "Adios," and bow out.

Chuck

[Elizabeth H]

that wasn't meant as a broom by which to shew you away, chuck!

lots of people have bowed out because they don't like what's being said/done etc. when i first started posting here i took myself way too seriously. when someone expressed a different opinion i freaked out and took it personally. having been baptised into the board through a couple of stinging posts, i don't worry about it as much anymore.

people come, people go. sometimes it's boring, sometimes annoying. but sometimes (and this is really great when it happens) it's illuminating. i just don't have lofty expectations or hold my breath waiting for the next enlightening topic.

all this to say: check in sometime soon. i liked reading your thoughts, even if you didn't get the feedback you expected.
cheers,
e.

[Chuck Miller]

 Elizabeth,

From your comments, I must have sounded like the little kid on the block who took his marbles and went home because the other kids wouldn’t play the way he wanted.   

Please don’t misunderstand,  I don’t object to having my opinions disputed or questioned;  nor do I mind stinging rebuttals (they’re generally the ones most easily refuted).  I simply don’t feel we should be using public communications in such a way as to be a poor testimony for Jesus Christ, nor our time in fruitless dialogue .

Many Christians are frustrated and anxious concerning the spiritual, political and economic state of affairs in this country today.  This is inescapably obvious to unbelievers, who view us as being no different than they, and find nothing impressive about our methods and nothing attractive in our solutions. This frustration amongst Christians stems from their inability to bring about change in the here and now, and their anxiety is a result of failing to recognize that our concern should not be about the temporal, but rather, the eternal.

I try to point to the way out of this anxiety and frustration, and direct fellow believers down a path of assurance and peace - peace that can only be found in the joy of their confidence in Jesus,  who tells us to put our trust in Him and His ways, and not the world and its ways.

Unfortunately, many Christians seem to think they are obligated to try to impose God’s laws upon unwilling citizens, and feel that they can create a more perfect society by doing so.  Also, they get so easily distracted by useless or unprofitable dialogue and lose sight of what we are here for.  That’s what causes my own anxiety and frustration, so rather than beat my own head against a wall, I get to a point where I feel it is more profitable to just move on. 

God bless,

Chuck

[Elizabeth H]

I understand your frustration, Chuck. I agree with you that the ultimate answer to America's problems is not political. That being said, I admire those Christians who are able to serve politcally without defiling themselves with what is a notoriously dirty business.

But I guess I also enjoy frothy, joking dialogue and try not to take everything in life so seriously. A little humor, a good laugh now and then does me more good than an extended disagreement about the sad, depressing state of America's affairs. Know what I mean?

I commend your efforts, though. You seem to enjoy meaningful reflection and academic conversation. I'm glad you contributed your thoughts and hope you do so again soon.

cheers,
e.

[Oscar]

Chuck,

You said:

Incidentally, the house churches in China (and from what I have read, they are “brethren type churches”)  seem to be ”working” and they probably spend more time in one week on their knees praying then most  Christians spend in a year.  I understand that they don’t pray that God will deliver then from their persecution, but that He will give them the strength to endure it.  And incidentally, I hear also that they are praying for their Christian brothers and sisters in the U.S, - and what do you suppose is their prayer for us? - That we too shall come under persecution.   

While I realize that you are speaking in general terms about large numbers of Christians, I think you need to take another look at what you have said above.  You seem to be saying that these folks are a good example of Christian conduct and testimony.

Praying that other Christians will be denied education and jobs,  imprisoned, beaten, tortured, even executed!   IMHO, no serious Christian, especially one who had suffered such things himself or at least known people so treated, would such a thing.
Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

[al Hartman]

Chuck,

You said:

Incidentally, the house churches in China (and from what I have read, they are “brethren type churches”)  seem to be ”working” and they probably spend more time in one week on their knees praying then most  Christians spend in a year.  I understand that they don’t pray that God will deliver then from their persecution, but that He will give them the strength to endure it.  And incidentally, I hear also that they are praying for their Christian brothers and sisters in the U.S, - and what do you suppose is their prayer for us? - That we too shall come under persecution.   

While I realize that you are speaking in general terms about large numbers of Christians, I think you need to take another look at what you have said above.  You seem to be saying that these folks are a good example of Christian conduct and testimony.

Praying that other Christians will be denied education and jobs,  imprisoned, beaten, tortured, even executed!   IMHO, anyone who would do this is either: 1. A false brother. 2. Delusional. or, 3. Certifiably insane.

...or, it could be that the Chinese saints, deprived of a free press and free exchange of information with their brethren abroad, labor under the delusion that the western churches have become worldly and sloppy in their profession of Christ.  So thinking, they may actually believe that some degree of persecution could serve as a wakeup call to us to repent of worldliness and return to the Author and Finisher of our redemption.

Chuck didn't specify the points you raise, above.  Persecution may begin as simply as labeling the gospel as hate-speech and illegalizing it, or demanding that Christian ministers perform same-sex marriages.  These things are actually occurring in other countries today.  They could happen here...

al

[Oscar]

Al,

I think it is more likely that this idea is just "Christian Grapevine" rumors, the sort that spreads through casual conversations among folks who know little about what is really going on.

If you will remember, we used to hear things like the Jews had ordered all the materials for the rebuilding of the temple.  This was shortly after the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967.  Still waiting for that one to be verified, 35 years later.

Also, remember all the rumors about Watchman Nee?  We regarded him as a spiritual giant in those pre-assembly days.  According to the rumors, they had cut off his legs, arms, and blinded him.  Different rumors detailed different horrors.   Turned out they let him go when he was old, and he died outside of prison, feeble but of sound mind, with all his body parts intact.

Blessings,

Tom

[al Hartman]

Al,

I think it is more likely that this idea is just "Christian Grapevine" rumors, the sort that spreads through casual conversations among folks who know little about what is really going on.

If you will remember, we used to hear things like the Jews had ordered all the materials for the rebuilding of the temple.  This was shortly after the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967.  Still waiting for that one to be verified, 35 years later.

Also, remember all the rumors about Watchman Nee?  We regarded him as a spiritual giant in those pre-assembly days.  According to the rumors, they had cut off his legs, arms, and blinded him.  Different rumors detailed different horrors.   Turned out they let him go when he was old, and he died outside of prison, feeble but of sound mind, with all his body parts intact.

Blessings,

Tom

Tom,

Obviously you and I have access to different grapevines.  What I heard was that Watchman Nee had ordered all the materials for the rebuilding of the temple.  The reason nothing has happened since is that he couldn't follow through with building it after losing his arms, legs and eyes.  (don't ask me why...)

Anyway, of course we know "what's really going on..."  That's what the rumors are for!!!

al