Re: anonymous posters

[Oscar]

"Frank" et. al.

Frank is perhaps a composite poster.  Ever consider that?

Actually, I have considered that.  Probably not, however, in the way you meant this.  I have considered a different possibility.

Here is a quote from Dr. Neil Anderson, former Professor of Applied Theology at Talbot Seminary, and a recognized evangelical authority in the area of occult phenomena:

"Deceiving spirits encourage shortcuts, bypass the mind and seek to create a dependency upon esoteric knowledge, (knowledge that can only be understood by a few elite people), Spirit guides can give you the knowledge you seek by bypassing your mind.  You won't even have to think.  Just go by what you hear in your head. Sounds good doesn't it?  That's how a medium works!  New Age channelers are making big money with their esoteric knowledge.  Some will even profess to be Christians. Satan gives them enough truth to hook a gullible public."

Consider what I am saying.

Thomas Maddux

[frank]

"Frank" et. al.

Actually, I have considered that.  Probably not, however, in the way you meant this.  I have considered a different possibility.

Here is a quote from Dr. Neil Anderson, former Professor of Applied Theology at Talbot Seminary, and a recognized evangelical authority in the area of occult phenomena:

"Deceiving spirits encourage shortcuts, bypass the mind and seek to create a dependency upon esoteric knowledge, (knowledge that can only be understood by a few elite people), Spirit guides can give you the knowledge you seek by bypassing your mind.  You won't even have to think.  Just go by what you hear in your head. Sounds good doesn't it?  That's how a medium works!  New Age channelers are making big money with their esoteric knowledge.  Some will even profess to be Christians. Satan gives them enough truth to hook a gullible public."

Consider what I am saying.

Thomas Maddux

What should I do about this problem Professor?
Do you do exorcisms?

[Mark C.]

 Is Frankie following the teaching of Demons?

   When Sondra first made her visit to the BB her teaching seemed to follow a mix of Madame Guyon meets Buddha, at least that was how I understood it, because her conversation was not founded on what evangelical Christians consider orthodox.

   I have apologized to Sondra for my reaction in the past because my arguments against her were personal in nature, as in calling her a follower of Witness Lee, etc., vs. just arguing against the ideas that she presented.

  I still disagree strongly with Sondra on her views of what true spirituality is, but I think there are some things to be learned by continuing the discussion, and particularly how the Spirit works in our lives.

   Many former Assembly members can be very confused as GG could in one moment teach against mystical experiences and in the next proclaim a very esoteric means of "knowing Chrst".   

   I must admit that reading this thread, and thinking about these things, has caused me to reconsider my views.  I think back to when I was saved, and this definitely was not a purely cognitive experience.

  Now, I understand what it means to be demon controlled, because prior to salvation I was (I would not say possessed, but probably close to that) but the moment of that spiritual transformation from darkness to light relieved me of a dark presence and brought another spiritual presence into my soul.

  It was an experience very much felt througout my being, but the biggest difference was one of a new awareness (knowledge/consciousness?).  I had no doubt that Jesus was my Savior and that all my sins had been taken away, I knew the bible was God's word and that in it God would speak to me, and that my life was now hooked up somehow to the eternal God.

   Where did the above assurances come from?  Not from my rational study of Scripture, of which I still knew very little, rather from a personal encounter with God himself via his Spirit.  I was filled with joy and wanted to tell all about what I had found, and this is all my early witnessing was about---- telling people to seek God and that He will pour out his Spirit to those that ask.

   This of course does not mean that God always wants to work in our lives just this way, and of course I was in a situation that required God to take the particular approach he did with me. 

   Awareness of things that we cannot see is not natural, and though we can use science to understand sub-atomic particles, they will not normally affect our interaction with the visible world.

  This can be true in the spiritual world, where there are unseen forces that operate beyond our ability to see.  We can read the Bible and understand that there is a God and a devil, but it takes the Spirit of God to make these unseen persons real to me in my day to day life.

  Aren't we just to have faith in the facts of the Bible and through these we're to "understand" what we cannot see?   Are we as Christians not given the faith at salvation to do just this?  Are not these biblical truths to control our lives no matter how things appear?

  It would be pretty hard to even have an elementary understanding of the Bible and not answer the above in the affirmative.  But, as Peter, our faith can fail, and I have come to discover that the faith that God has given me is not the same thing as the gift of a strong resolute will.

   Just by studying Abraham, the father of the faithful, we can see that God had to cause faith to grow in him, and this always involved a personal kind of relationship, vs. just some kind of bible scholar training---- not that I think this is bad, just not all that we need to "know", to make us the spritual beings that God would have us to be.

  When it comes down to it, an awareness of God in my life should bring about certain "fruits" in one's life:

1.) Humility: If we really know God we are much more honest about our own lack of wisdom and abilities.

2.) The ability to accept correction:  An aspect of humility and a true sign that grace is working in my soul.

 3.) A kind of on-going informal conversation with God.  the result of this is an awareness that God has taken my anxiety over life and made my care His.

       Just some of my thoughts,                God bless,  Mark C.



 

[frank]

Now that I have come to learn that I am demon possessed---all this time I thought I was a Christian.  I prayed to God, confessed my sin, believed in the Gospel....all to no avail---anyways, now that I realize that I have at least one or two demons...a couple things come to mind:

The apostle Paul, on the road to Damascus, saw that bright light, heard to voice, etc.  There was no way this could happen.  Now that Professor Maddux has taught me this :

All I am addressing here is the means by which revelation is communicated to us. If you, or anyone else, can show where the scriptures teach a direct, non-mediated, ie, mystical revelation at the personal level, please do so.

His question, of course, is a rhetorical question, asked with the confidence of a trained, educated professional academician.  Tom has graduated recently!  Good job, Tom.  When he asked this question, he wasn't asking us lessors to help him find a verse, he was trying to prove his point.

Well, Paul's Damascus road experience, like so many others in the Bible, is just bogus.  Paul was reading Ephesians when that happened, there was no bright light.

John's experience on the Isle of Patmos was also.....ummmmm I better not take away anything from that book.  Forget I mentioned John.  Just drop it OK?

So, I have a problem.  I'm possessed, and yet I believe the scriptures.  Unfortunately for me, Satan has given me just enough truth to make me think I'm a Christian.  I'm going to sit down tonite, and diagram some sentences in the Bible, and hopefully, through that exercise I can escape my dilemna.

This is tricky stuff.  Imagine my surprise when I find out I'm a medium all this time!  Let me tell you, it rocked my worldview, it did.

Professor Maddux, what about the verse that says, "he who calls upon the Name of the Lord shall not be put to shame.?"  I did that, and still did that, up until today.  Now I realize I've got to get back to basics, so I can stop being a medium.

Possibly in Christ, at some point in the future...maybe,

Frank

[frank]

Marcia,

If you will re-read my post, you will see that I did not make the claim that it was just a matter of academics.  I specifically said that grace must enable our faculty of faith.  But there must be something to believe.  How did you get the information? 

Did it come through hearing with your ears or seeing with your eyes?  Was it innate, something you were born with?  Or did you receive the information
by some non-sensible means?

I don't know of any other alternatives.  Do you?  If so, say so.

All I am addressing here is the means by which revelation is communicated to us. If you, or anyone else, can show where the scriptures teach a direct, non-mediated, ie, mystical revelation at the personal level, please do so.

It is far wiser that we should believe what is actually true, rather than hoping truth will conform itself to what we want it to be.  If I am wrong, I am wrong.  However, rather than simply being annoyed with the messenger, it would be far more effecient to show that we actually do/i] receive mystical, personal revelation. 

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

I heard a voice today.  It was a familiar voice.  It said to me,

"Tom is an idiot.  Although he has recently graduated, he's still young and inexperienced.  He's over his head on this discussion, but hasn't the stones to admit it, let alone concede a single point."

My question is if this qualifies as special or general revelation?  The reason I ask is because I read what Tom had to say, then read how Verne corrected him using the scriptures.  I believed the scriptures....so that is special revelation?  But I also heard the voice inside my head telling me that Tom is an idiot.  Is that special, or general?

Is it just because I am a medium?

I think Tom might be one of those "super apostles," you know, the guys that Paul poked fun at?  Paul was so rude!

Can someone help me?

[2ram]

Frank is perhaps a composite poster.

Shall we call you Legion?

2r

P.S. BTW I said "poor al" because he stuck his sidetracking query right in the middle of a good discussion, not because of the identity crisis thing.  Al loves to hide in the weeds and find some lonely duck to shoot at, while everybody else is somewhere else.  Joe manages to add good humor without sidetacking.

2r

[GDG]

Frank,

I find your manner of expression very offensive.  If you disagree with someone, by all means, disagree to your heart's content.  Debate is a healthy way of learning and educating, but there is a right way and a wrong way to conduct yourself in a public forum.  Even children know that name calling is childish, so what's your excuse?  I think you could have found a better way of approaching your difference of opinion with Tom.

Gay (btw, my real name)

[frank]

Frank,

I find your manner of expression very offensive.  If you disagree with someone, by all means, disagree to your heart's content.  Debate is a healthy way of learning and educating, but there is a right way and a wrong way to conduct yourself in a public forum.  Even children know that name calling is childish, so what's your excuse?  I think you could have found a better way of approaching your difference of opinion with Tom.

Gay (btw, my real name)

Hello Gay,

In case you didn't notice:

"Frank" et. al.

Actually, I have considered that.  Probably not, however, in the way you meant this.  I have considered a different possibility.

Here is a quote from Dr. Neil Anderson, former Professor of Applied Theology at Talbot Seminary, and a recognized evangelical authority in the area of occult phenomena:

"Deceiving spirits encourage shortcuts, bypass the mind and seek to create a dependency upon esoteric knowledge, (knowledge that can only be understood by a few elite people), Spirit guides can give you the knowledge you seek by bypassing your mind.  You won't even have to think.  Just go by what you hear in your head. Sounds good doesn't it?  That's how a medium works!  New Age channelers are making big money with their esoteric knowledge.  Some will even profess to be Christians. Satan gives them enough truth to hook a gullible public."

Consider what I am saying.

Thomas Maddux

May I kindly point out to you that Professor Maddux has just suggested that I am medium, or under the influence of a deceiving spirit?  I found THAT manner of expression to be offensive, quite offensive actually.

It goes past the point of common rudeness, or vulgarity for several reasons:

1.)He admitted that it was well thought out.  In other words, it wasn't said in a flippant, off-the-cuff, or passionate manner.  Rather, it was said on purpose.
2.)It is the essence of being judgemental.  He is suggesting that a person who names Christ's Name is demon possessed, or the equivalent.
3.)He has a long history of doing this sort of thing.

Name calling is childish.  Indeed it is.  What do you call someone who name calls in the manner I listed above?

I call them an idiot.  I think it's a proper use of the word, don't you?

frank

[al Hartman]

Not to me.  I see prayer as a demonstration of our dependence upon God.  As we ask, we take our rightful place before Him and depend upon Him to do what we are unable to do for ourselves.  Further, Jesus promises a kind of cause-and-effect relationship between asking and receiving though in my experience it generally happens in unpredictable ways.  I'm not sure how your statement relates to Tom's point.

OOOOOHH-- OOOOOHH!!!!!  This CAN'T be right, 'cause I heard it said in the assembly!!!

                        (the above message brought to you compliments of the al Hartman iron(y) works)

Personal to frank,

Per your request, I will not PM you in the future.  Thank you for effectively confirming privately to me what others had only suggested.  Up until then, you had me fooled.

al

P.S.--

I heard a voice today.  It was a familiar voice.  It said to me,

"Tom is an idiot.  Although he has recently graduated, he's still young and inexperienced.  He's over his head on this discussion, but hasn't the stones to admit it, let alone concede a single point."

It was not the voice of God, who has said, "whoever shall say 'Fool (idiot)' shall be in danger of hell fire."  That it was a "familiar" voice is, sadly, not a surprise.

Can someone help me?

...a truly significant question...

[frank]

OOOOOHH-- OOOOOHH!!!!!  This CAN'T be right, 'cause I heard it said in the assembly!!!

                        (the above message brought to you compliments of the al Hartman iron(y) works)

Personal to frank,

Per your request, I will not PM you in the future.  Thank you for effectively confirming to me what others had only suggested.  Up until then, you had me fooled.

al

You're welcome! 

For the record, Al:  What do you think of suggesting someone is a medium, possessed, or influenced by deceiving spirits?  What if I had said that about Tom?

Is that something you can answer?

[GDG]

frank,

You remind me of my children when they were little.  If one was reprimanded I could count on hearing "but so & so got away with it" and my answer was always "so how does that make what you did right?"  Sorry frankie, but you sunk a bit low in your comments.  Whether Tom was right or wrong doesn't make your way of expressing yourself any better...childish is as childish does.  If you want to be taken seriously, then act it.

Gay

[frank]

frank,

You remind me of my children when they were little.  If one was reprimanded I could count on hearing "but so & so got away with it" and my answer was always "so how does that make what you did right?"  Sorry frankie, but you sunk a bit low in your comments.  Whether Tom was right or wrong doesn't make your way of expressing yourself any better...childish is as childish does.  If you want to be taken seriously, then act it.

Gay

Children in the assembly witnessed this kind of hypocrisy and double standards all the time...from the adults.  It angered them, ruined their faith, and lot's of other things that are really sad.
I would take YOU seriously, if you had said something to the Professor first.

What he said was WAY, WAY over-the-top.  What I said was simply a reaction to what he said, which was quite offensive.

If you think it's childish to stand up for yourself in the face of an accusation like the one above, then I admit to being a child.  I, on the other hand, think it's fine to rebuke a person who all but calls me a medium!

I'm not sorry if this offends you.   

Your use of the "two wrongs don't make a right," idea is admirable.  However, it doens't apply here.  In saying what he did, Tom showed contempt for me, and let slip a severe form of judgementalism.    He's done it before to other people.   My retort was fitting and proper. 

Some people deserve it, my dear.

[al Hartman]

For the record, Al:  What do you think of suggesting someone is a medium, possessed, or influenced by deceiving spirits?  What if I had said that about Tom?

Is that something you can answer?

I, on the other hand, think it's fine to rebuke a person who all but calls me a medium!

Which is it-- suggesting you are, or all but calling you a medium?  If "medium" is taken to mean "average," or "up to par," you could choose to regard it as a compliment...

BTW, my question is rhetorical-- no need to answer it, as I will not be replying to you on-line or off in the future (at least until you fool me with another alias).

al

[frank]

Which is it-- suggesting you are, or all but calling you a medium?  If "medium" is taken to mean "average," or "up to par," you could choose to regard it as a compliment...

BTW, my question is rhetorical-- no need to answer it, as I will not be replying to you on-line or off in the future (at least until you fool me with another alias).

al

You did a poor job of side-stepping here Al.   Your little quip about "average," warrants a C minus.
I admire your devotion to Tom, however.  Maybe Brian can make you a moderator someday! Wouldn't that be grand!

My question wasn't rhetorical, and neither is this one:

Can we have a list of who we can insult and who we can't?  it's obvious that it's OK to call me demon possessed, and that it's not OK to call Tom an idiot.  Are there any other hidden rules or special treatment that we can follow?

frank

[Oscar]

Frank,

So, I have a problem.  I'm possessed, and yet I believe the scriptures.  Unfortunately for me, Satan has given me just enough truth to make me think I'm a Christian.  I'm going to sit down tonite, and diagram some sentences in the Bible, and hopefully, through that exercise I can escape my dilemna.

This is tricky stuff.  Imagine my surprise when I find out I'm a medium all this time!  Let me tell you, it rocked my worldview, it did.

Professor Maddux, what about the verse that says, "he who calls upon the Name of the Lord shall not be put to shame.?"  I did that, and still did that, up until today.  Now I realize I've got to get back to basics, so I can stop being a medium.

Possibly in Christ, at some point in the future...maybe,

Frank

The way several regular posters on the board first discerned who you really are was the consistent pattern your posts manifest, no matter which name you are using at the time.  Constant demeaning and ridicule of other board members, joined with a continuous stream of self praise and claims of highly advanced spiritual stature.

This, of course, is exactly the behavior we observed for so many years in George Geftakys.  He claimed mystical experiences, special annointing, apostolic status, powers of discernment, hearing the voice of God, a special mission to be God's choice servant for this age, on and on.
I myself have heard him "call on the name of the Lord" hundreds of times...all the while involving himself in multiple wicked practices.

Here is a quote from a Christian psychiatrist who (reluctantly) has had to perform some exorcisms. 

"I hardly mean to condemn every markedly pious person, but I do admit that excessive and obvious piety does arouse my suspicions.  What better way to try to hide your wickedness from the undiscerning world than by adopting a distinctly religious disguise.  I have seen this phenomenon among clergy and other religious professionals.  I have seen it most frequently, however, among religious volunteers....What better way to conceal one's evil from oneself as well as from others..."

So....I wonder about you "Frank".   

Fruit, not profession.

Thomas Maddux