IT IS TRUE!!!

[Danny E]

I too have read the thread, I understood that there would be skepticism, that’s okay because ‘by their fruit you shall know them’.  We are serious about what we have said and as concerning doctrine or false teaching that is something that may surface, but I know of no false doctrine that is allowed.  The work came down like an old baseball stadium that was imploded in 30 seconds, what remains are the testimonies.  Each one is facing a massive amount of heart wrenching truth that has taken most by total surprise, most everybody that I am involved with were doing what they were doing in goodwill, God knows and will honor this.  What remains are the testimonies and each group is on there own and must decide the course of their fellowship, this is wonderful too as many assemblies are meeting and having open discussion and evaluating everything that we do, give them time too.  We have brought great shame to the name of Jesus Christ in San Luis Obispo and so we see the need to be accountable to local leadership and go forward in humility, this is not the Will of God for every gathering, but they may need to do things we don’t etc.  For me it has taken 1 ½ years for my relationship to drastically change with brother George, many out there did not experience what I did, so they need to be given even more space and let the Lord work and show them what to do. The fact that today all the assemblies across the country still exist show that this is not something to fight against, but to let the Spirit work in each place in His unique way.  It has been 2 days, give us time to demonstrate our seriousness regarding these things.  Each one of you were in fellowship for years, it took you time to see flaws and problems, sins and such, those that have remained now have an opportunity to go forward in the leading of the Lord in new ways, each gathering will look different and that is great.

Danny E

[Kimberley Tobin]

Here's one false teaching:

Man was created on the 7th day.  There are taped transcripts from recent seminars with George teaching this numerous times.

Another:

Liberty, adoption, destiny, inheritance, and glorification all speak of something beyond forgiveness of sins, as great as that is.  These greater privileges of the Christian life demand serious commitment and love for the Lord Jesus Christ. .  (p. 36, The Glorious Liberty of the Sons of God)

What we need to realize is that although God desires all of this for us, it is conditional.  Salvation from sin is unconditional, but privilege in glory is conditioned upon our response. (p. 40-41, Stages on the Journey)

Our forgiveness of sins and justification is unconditional in the Word of God, but holiness of life and the reward at the judgment seat of Christ are conditional.  (p. 75, So Great Salvation)

These are all taken from George's books as noted and display the performance based salvation for christian privileges.

Danny, it is understandable that it may take you and others to see these things.  Be careful readers of the word.  You need to unlearn alot of what you have been taught by Mr. Geftakys.    Read Galatians.

[4Him]

Thanks Danny,
I'm trusting Christ that there will be clarity in every heart.  We will need much patience, I know I will.  I know that God wants to do a deep work of repentance not only in SLO and Fullerton but in Springfield, Chicago, Annandale, Estevan, ...  It is only God that can accomplish this.  He can do ANYTHING! AMAZING GRACE! ...mercy still reserved for me! HALLELUJAH, what a Savior!

[Oscar]

Danny,
I believe that you are right.  This process is just beginning.
Each assembly will have to do some evaluating and reconsidering their teachings and practices.
Please keep the windows open.  By this I mean that the assemblies aggressively attempted to control the information available to God's people for years.  If you control what someone knows, you control what they think.  If you control what they think, you control what they do.
Where it was impossible to control people's access to information, it was common practice to "poison the well".
By this I mean that people's character or ministries were attacked in order to keep the saints from paying attention to them.
Once, during my last months in the assembly at Fullerton, Dan Notti told my daughter Joy and Me, "Look at these churches, there is no light in them".  I took Joy home and brought her over to my bookcase.  I began reading the names of the authors there. Spurgeon, Chafer, Schaeffer, G. Campbell Morgan, Newell, Torrey, Moody, Talbot, Gaebelein, Walvoord, Pentecost, Packer, Tournier, on and on.
I told her," don't listen to him, he is an ignorant man if he believes what he told you." God has richly gifted His church. (There's only one you know).
If you keep the windows open, over time you will find yourself changing your ideas in a number of areas.  This is a process all of we ex-assembly people have gone through.
One of the "big ones" is when we all realized that that the evangelical churches are full of godly, sincere Christians, who are our brothers and sisters in Christ and not our enemies.
Walk in the light,
Thomas Maddux

[Rob Kazarinoff]

Danny,

Thank you for your phone call Sunday morning.  Yes, brother.  I forgive you.  It's taken a lot of courage to do what you've just done.  I mentioned your call was not going to be a "thanks for your apology - good bye - never hear from you again" kind of conversation.  I meant that.  The process of restoring my regard for you has begun.

Rob Kazarinoff

[AaBbCc]

Hi Rob,
Tell Linda I want to talk to her.  My email address is: loriwraycpa@alliancecable.net

Lori

[Corey]

Lori,

So good to hear from you.  I'm not sure you know me well, but you were the first sister that left after I came into fellowship.

I'm still here in SLO, and I can say that GOD HAS DONE SOMETHING GREAT.  

It's as if salvation has occured for our gathering.  I'm not sure how it came about, and I'm a bit confused, full of joy, and wondering what is next.  But, I know it has occured.

Corey

[Kimberley Tobin]

and so we see the need to be accountable to local leadership and go forward in humility, this is not the Will of God for every gathering, but they may need to do things we don’t etc.  

Danny E

I humbly ask you Danny to consider, how do you KNOW this is NOT the Will of God for every gathering?  Wouldn't you have said three months ago that it was the Will of God to NOT address these issues at all?  In light of the agregious things that are now coming to light (and we know there are others) and realizing that these are simply the fruit of a ministry that was taught by a wicked and corrupt man, I would say that it IS the Will of God that EVERY ASSEMBLY must ask for their local mainstream christianity pastoral staff to come alongside them and make sure that what they are teaching is doctrinally correct.  There should be a tremendous endeavor to clear themselves in the matter.  George and Betty groomed each one of these men and women who were in positions of power and leadership and exactly what to teach.  You know Danny that we frowned upon "seminary trained" men or women of God coming into our ranks to teach differently.  Now we are dealing with the fruit of our pride.

My prayer is that the men in every locality see that these are the steps that MUST be taken in order restore Christ to each locality, as well as sound biblical teaching.

Proverbs 16:2, "All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigheth the spirits."

[Bob Sturnfield]

Hi Kimberley,
When I saw you were still logged on my first thought was "I hope she simply forgot to log off, it is not healthy"

Then I saw your post at 5am

Yes, we are in a battle and I realize that the Lord has you so burdened to pray that you can not sleep.  It is not time to let up, it is time to pray even more fervently.

1 Peter 5:7 (PHIL)  You can throw the whole weight of your anxieties upon him, for you are his personal concern.

Notice that it does not say part, but "the whole" or "all"

His people are His personal concern. He gives grace to the humble.

Continue to pray and cast yourself on the Lord, yes let your fervency be in prayer.

Phil 4:6  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
7  and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

What a Friend we have in Jesus, all our sins and griefs to bear!
What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer!
O what peace we often forfeit, O what needless pain we bear,
All because we do not carry everything to God in prayer.

Have we trials and temptations? Is there trouble anywhere?
We should never be discouraged; take it to the Lord in prayer.
Can we find a friend so faithful who will all our sorrows share?
Jesus knows our every weakness; take it to the Lord in prayer.

Are we weak and heavy laden, cumbered with a load of care?
Precious Savior, still our refuge, take it to the Lord in prayer.
Do your friends despise, forsake you? Take it to the Lord in prayer!
In His arms He’ll take and shield you; you will find a solace there.

Blessed Savior, Thou hast promised Thou wilt all our burdens bear
May we ever, Lord, be bringing all to Thee in earnest prayer.
Soon in glory bright unclouded there will be no need for prayer
Rapture, praise and endless worship will be our sweet portion there.

[editor]

Dear Kimberley, and others.

I hope all of you have read The Lord of The Rings.  

After Saruman and Sauron were defeated, there were still people who didn't know right away.  It took some time to get things straightened out, and to realize that the Dark Lord was dead and gone.  There were still some who behaved in fear, like he was not gone, and others, who wished he was still in power.

However, most people realized that a new day had dawned.  I am only using this to illustrate a point.  Do not go off on me by telling me that LOTR is fantasy, and this is REAL life.  I am well aware of that!

When someone has been in prison for twenty years, and is used to getting up at six AM to the sound of a Klaxon, it may take some time for them to change their sleeping patterns when they are released.  

When you have been believing and teaching certain things for many years, you can't toss them aside in a moment, unless you become totally dishonest with yourself. It will take time, even as it did for all of us.

George was false, as false as they come.  Yes, he was a false teacher, but not everything he taught was false, many things were quite true.

The Word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword.  By the leading of the Holy Spirit, I trust that God will open the word to our friends, and show them, first of all, His Love and Grace.  At the present time, We/they, need to see Jesus!

The other things will sort out in due time, perhaps very quickly.

We have an ex-JW beginning to come to our home group.  Shall I sit him down this week and demand that he face all the false doctrine promulgated by watchtower, understand it, and renounce it?

He knows Jesus, the REAL Jesus.  So do the people in the Assembly.

I am impatient for certain deeds to occurr, but I am confident that many doctrinal errors will be cleared up, and I am willing to be patient.  

These concerns, voiced here ( I remember saying a thing or two about George's false teaching. Does anyone remember this?) and elsewhere are totally valid, and hopefully will come to the forefront.  But lets give it some time!  Noble Bereans didn't snap to acceptance of Paul's teaching.  They carefull weighed it.

Noble ex-assembly will do the same.  (yes, I said noble, and you would too if you saw what I saw.)

God loves these people, and they will be made whole in His time.

"This is far from over, we have many things to get right." Quote from Danny Edwards, January 19th, 2003, in front of everyone.   I think he gets it.

Brent

Oh, I also wanted to say that there are no more "itinerate brothers."  Hopefully, as in SLO, there will be guest speakers from the Body of Christ, IE from other churches!  Praise God!

[Peacefulg]

Hi all, I was reading in Hosea today (for those that know me they will not be surprised that I was in the minor prophets).  The whole book deals mainly with how the Lord was going to deal with His people Israel (especially Ephraim with regards to their backsliding).  

Reason I bring this up because the Lord is showing me (one who has been out for over 4 years), that it took time for me to heal (still have areas that need to be, but who knows these may be areas that are not completed until I behold Him, and are changed into His likeness).  Note: the word points out we shall be like Him, when we see Him  I John 3:2 , remember this when going out to anyone, but most importantly when dealing with yourself, because we so expect perfection from time to time.  That is why we must ask God in all honesty and humility to search us Psalm 139:23.24.

Back to Hosea, you see throughout the whole book passages of judgment, but with these come promises of GREAT healing and restoration Ch 6, .  This healing and restoration through takes time, Lord refers to renewal in terms of crops (ok I have never farmed), but I know corn does not come up overnight, and fig trees after planting do not give their fruit for sometime.  I am not saying that all things will take time but some will (Repentance and forgiveness can be instant), but the consequences from the sin(s), could be a lifetime.

For those of you that have just recently left, take to mind these things, which have already been said before.

1.   Not everything you learned in the assembly was wrong, some things taught were not original/exclusive to the assemblies.  If you get rid of your George books then fine, but remember on those book tables were Spurgeon, Andrew Murray, Chambers, etc., and a lot of messages were preached on what they wrote.

2.   Do not be ashamed to contact brethren of old, for a number of you this will be hard I know (since you talked about them after they left, or did not stand with them in how the Lord lead them out).  I have this to say from what I have seen and all the people I know out we are hear for you and willing to help and forgive.

3.   Most of you if not all of you will have a HARD time dealing with leadership wherever you have gone, this is one of those crop issues it will take time.  What I suggest you do in go to the pastor, elder, someone in leadership and simply explained to them what you have come out of/from.  This will do two things, one you will get a good sense of do these people stand for the Lord or themselves by how they answer you.  Second, you will start a relationship of trust, might not be much there but the seed has been planted.  Psalm 37:23-26  Never seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed seeking bread   DARBY

4.   Continue to do the great commission and preach the gospel!  This I would say is on of the greatest things the assembly taught me.

5.   Pray, pray, pray, and ask to pray with anyone you speak with.  Also let the prayer flow, may there be many child like prayer in you life going forward.

Lord Bless you all,
G

[Oscar]

Brent,

AMEN and AMEN!

Excellent post.  
I was once teaching in the adult fellowship of Creek Park Community Church.  I turned to a passage to illustrate a point, and suddenly realized that the I words I expected weren't there!  The NASB did not support the point I was making, it was based on a peculiarity of the King James translation.  (Let's see now, which translation did GG like?)

Recent leavers are going to be revising their ideas as long as they stay in contact with healthy Christianity.  Remember, they thought of these ministries as a threat until very recently, almost enemies, at least those who "do not have heavenly vision".  
They have a lot of work to do. Pray and support them.  God is the Judge of men's hearts, not you and I.

Remember the Lord of the Rings...it was Gollum who finally destroyed the ring.  Gandalf said to Frodo when discussing why Bilbo did not just kill him when he had the chance, something like..."can you give life?  Should you take it? Many who deserve to live, die.  And many who deserve death are yet alive. Maybe he has some part to play before the end".  And it proved so in that insightful story.

Well, we are dealing with real life.  And real souls, chosen for glory by the Eternal, All Wise God.  Let's let God do His work.  

Grace to all,
Thomas Maddux

[H]

Dear Danny,

you said "I know of no false doctrine that is allowed." I love you, dear brother, so I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings, but that statement only shows how successful GG was at thoroughly indoctrinating his followers with his false version of Christianity. I don't have much time, so I'm not going to deal with a lot of details. Let me just point out what I consider to be the most basic and serious false doctrine that George teaches, namely, the teaching that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the entire human race. I realize that many other Christians also believe and teach this doctrine, which may be part of the reason why I continued to believe in it for so many years, but that doesn't make it true. Consider these 2 facts:

1. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself clearly taught in John 10:11-15 that He would give (lay down) His life for the sheep[/u].
2. Nowhere in the Bible did the Lord Jesus Christ ever teach that He would give (lay down) His life for the entire human race.

Question: Do you think the Lord is pleased when people teach what He never taught instead of teaching what He did teach?

If you would like to explore this subject further, here is some good material:

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/calvinism/L.asp
http://www.gospeloutreach.net/limited_atonement.html
http://www.ids.org/ids/limit.html

May the Lord open the eyes of His sheep to the truth!

Love in Christ,
H

[Peacefulg]

Hi H, I have to disagree with your point who Christ died for.

1.  John 3:16 is clear and other passages, if Christ did not die for everyone, then why tell us to go into the whole world and preach the gospel to everyone?

2.  You claim Christ did not teach it, well Christ did not teach about a lot of things.  Homosexuality etc.

I do not mean to attack you, but more what you hold.  Now if what you hold and belive is you, then I entreat you like we are entreating everyone else on this site, let CHRIST be your life, not a doctrine.

Lord Bless,
G

[Kimberley Tobin]

Isn't it wonderful though, Peaceful and H, that we can disagree and have a dialogue, you know we were never allowed to do this in the assembly.

This topic you are debating is one that mainstream christianity debates, as well.  

There are so many other of George's teachings that are clearly in error, why dialogue over issues that even mainstream christianity cannot agree on?