IT IS TRUE!!!

[jesusfreak]

Phil, stand strong my Brother.

[Kimberley Tobin]

Jesusfreak:  I sense in your small response to Phil: "Phil, stand strong my brother", the former teaching of the assembly, I call it "the Us vs. Them teaching".  If this is not the case, please forgive me and bear with me as I share from my heart.  (If this doesn't apply to you, perhaps there are some on this board who can be edified by my thoughts.)

As Phil mentions in his post (thank you, Phil, for sharing so much with us) there is considered the "in fellowship" people and the "out of fellowship" people.  This is a sad way of looking at God's people.  There is no one true church.  There is no place where there is more "heavenly vision" as br. George puts it.  We see where this prideful, elitist attitude has led us to, haven't we?  One of the sins that God mentions he hates, is pride (see Proverbs 6:16-17.)   Please see NOTE.  

I am not saying that these gatherings cannot evolve into something that is pleasing to the Lord.  But it will only come by men who have been previously trained by George, humbling themselves and submitting themselves to a clearing of God's house.  There is dangerous teachings that have been indoctrinated in this place by this wicked man.  The one's who have stayed aren't even aware of what the teachings that are dangerous are!  That's why I am continually beating the drum, saying, bring in the local pastoral community to help with rebuilding.  Don't just take the teachings we have been indoctrinated with for decades and replace the old leadership with a new leadership but with the same teachings.

"And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.  But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved."  Luke 5:37-38

Heed the very next verse, verse 39, "No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new; for he saith The old is better."

The assembly, if it is to survive, needs to seek out the new wine.  If they will only say, we want the old wine, it will perish, most assuredly.


NOTE:  If anyone is going to say, ah, and yes the other sin God takes note of is sowing discord among brethren.  I want to respond even before you begin an argument with me.  This BB/website has never been about "sowing discord among brethren."  It has been about bringing to light the things of darkness, exposing the sins of men that were held in high esteem.  It is about men and women being able to make informed decisions on there own, not because they were told "the way it is" or "this is how to look at that."  

Keep dialogueing with us Jesusfreak, this is what is needed in this day, in this hour.

[Kimberley Tobin]

Phil:  Please imagine with me what those who have "left" feel like.  Many of us were "in fellowship" for more than a decade (I was in for 15 years, my husband for 20.)  Upon leaving, you lose all your friends.  No daily phone calls, no times of fellowship together, NOTHING.  You have no more friends, because the assembly was your life.  Your children are lucky if they have any friends because, they too have lost all their friends from the assembly.  You are called, divisive, a railer, the accuser of the brethren, etc.  

This is the reality for all those who have "left fellowship."   I understand your reasons for staying, partially being that of not wanting to lose all your friends, etc.   I've experienced it first hand.  But I am unwilling to stay with a system that has abused its members spiritually, causing scars that for some may never heal.  Perpetrating false teaching that is abhorrant to our Lord and savior.    Setting men up as god (which is idolatry) and if you are going to deny this, then how have we come to the place where one man falling has completely devastated the flock?

[jesusfreak]

Jesusfreak:  I sense in your small response to Phil: "Phil, stand strong my brother", the former teaching of the assembly, I call it "the Us vs. Them teaching".  If this is not the case, please forgive me and bear with me as I share from my heart.  (If this doesn't apply to you, perhaps there are some on this board who can be edified by my thoughts.)

I meantioned this in one of my other posts, and i want to bring it up again.  Just because it was taught in "The Assembly" that we are to stand for and encourage our brethern, does not mean it is an exclusive teaching. Building up our brethern in Christ is a universal concept, and not based in any one gathering.   Please do not hold knee-jerk reactions to anything you see, but analyze and examine for meaning first, determine whether it is benificial or stumbling.  I am quite astounded that people get flamed on this forum for supporting each other.  Let the encouragments remain pure -- if you want healing to occur.

[Phil Strangman]

Verne, yes, my dad is still playing the banjo. I'll have to ask him if he still remembers you. What assembly did you used to be a part of?

Kimberley, a few things. I have to disagree with you about Jesusfreak's response to me. I think an "us vs. them" mentality would have been a post like, "Phil, stand strong and don't worry about what some of these other people here are telling you. You, you know how THEY are...." (i'm exaggerating a little)

Also, you have a good point about what is was like for you and your family to leave fellowship. I do want to ask you this, even if the saints immediately cut off all contact with you (which is not helpful), if you really had given up on the assembly, could not you and your family started making friends with saints at a different church and make the best out of a bad situation. If it was not that easy, though, let me know. Also, you seem to have had a much different attitude then Sue Xander did about leaving. I noticed on one of her posts that she did not want any communication with anybody from Lombard after three years and sounded angry when somebody tried to call her. You on the other hand sound like you wish somebody did tried to contact you. I think that's interesting. I think it shows something I've seen, that over the years, different "assemblys" became different in some ways, maybe even in going out to others in this case.

Also, Kimberley, many people here have commented about how there have been false teachings in the assembly "indoctrinated" by br. George, without actually saying what they are! I think I might know some of the things that people are disagreeing with, like inheritance or the 1 Cor. 11: "'don't say broken" deal, but could you and some of the other posters actually tell us what you're saying is false?

Peace,

[Aslan213]

could you and some of the other posters actually tell us what you're saying is false?

Phil,  when I first came out of the assembly in October, 2002 I saw a several instances of false teaching being unrepented of.  Some originated with George and some with a local LB.  Since then I've seen much more, some are subtle and some are blatant.  I currently have 15 pages of documented false teaching.  This is in addition to what others have written.  The BB is not the place to post them.  I will briefly mention some here;

1.  The teaching of the Galatian Heresy is practiced in the assembly.  While we are taught it is all of grace, we are encouraged to strive to overcome (this contradicts I John 5:4-5).  Galatians 2:16 & James 2:14-26  are confused.  Because James refers to testifying justification.  Paul refers to once-for-all justification.  It is a testimony to do works, not to ensure our conditional salvation before God.  Man has nothing to boast about before God.  It is all of grace!

2.  "Making room for personal friendships in the house of God is not what God wants.  This is sin!"  This was taught often in the valley assembly.  I don't know if George taught this.  The scriptures mention David & Jonathan, Daniel & his friends, Jesus & his friends.

3.  II Thessalonians 1:8-9 “… because of our sin, there's the possibility that we will pay the penalty of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power...”  This was shared through itinerant ministry from Fullerton.  This is putting fear in a believer’s heart by implying about missing out or not overcoming.  This is in clear violation of the scriptures.  In 1 John 5:5 it says, “And who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”  By definition, all those who believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, is an overcomer.  It’s not based upon anyone’s works or self-holiness to obtain a “full salvation”.  It’s based on the finished work of Jesus Christ.

4.  From I Corinthians 2:16 “…But we apostles, but we Corinthians, we have the mind of Christ.  Now that is a wonderful thing.  That’s the responsibility of leadership to ascertain and stand for the mind of the Lord.”  This scripture refers to all believers in the church and not to those in leadership only.  The Leading Brothers are not needed to confirm the will of God.  This is used for control, since “the only ones who know how to implement God’s will is the leadership.”

There are many more but this post is long enough.  I used quotes because there are some who will argue that I missed the point, etc.

If you would like, you can email me and I will send you what transpired from the time I first noticed the teaching and the abuses till one year before I left.  

Lord bless,

Eric
ebuchmann@msn.com

[Eulaha L. Long]

Roberto Sanchez and Jeff Lehmkuhl have known of the abuse for many, many years.  There's absolutely no excuse for them covering up sin.  Now they have "repented".  I agree with Heide-these men need to step down from leadership.  It is my prayer that the whole "SLO Assembly" would just go out and find healthy churches to fellowship in.

[Heide]

I copied and pasted this request from the SLO assembly:

*The main request was that the Lord would enable them to make things right with those they offended, and that they would be able to restore the reproach they brought on the name of Christ in the community.*

When does that start? I have recieved a few phone calls wanting to know if I have been contacted. Do I get that phone call that says "Hey, sorry we called you a liar, sorry we said you broke up Dave & Judy's marriage by writing that article or helping Judy leave, sorry we branded you as being bitter and weak, sorry we said you were wicked..." Or is there going to be a public meeting? I just want to know when it starts?
Heide

[Eulaha L. Long]

I'm waiting too Heide!  How about an apology that says, "Eulaha, we are sorry that we told you it would be sinful to leave the Assembly.  We are sorry for threatening me to stop talking to others about why you left the group."  I'm assuming that aplogy is in the works.  All I can do is assume.

[jesusfreak]

I'm waiting too Heide!  How about an apology that says, "Eulaha, we are sorry that we told you it would be sinful to leave the Assembly.  We are sorry for threatening me to stop talking to others about why you left the group."  I'm assuming that aplogy is in the works.  All I can do is assume.

I am curious, from whom are you looking for this?  Do they know you were offended?  Are you expecting people who have already failed you by offending you to *know* that they did?  I personally hope that when offend someone, they would come to me and tell me, otherwise i would have had no idea.  Granted, i do not know your personal situation in all this, nor do i know *everything* that has transpired, but be sure that they know you were offended, and that you are seeking a apology for the spite of pride.   God desires greater things for you than for you to remain bitter, find that peace.

[Eulaha L. Long]

Jesusfreak,

They know I was offended.  I've reminded many times.

[Eulaha L. Long]

Also, just because I am seeking an apology does not make me "bitter".

[Heide]

Hey JesusFreak,

I'm not sure who you are responding to in your email but let me ask you this. If you called someone a liar in a roomful of people and talked poorly about them, wouldn't that information be in your heart and whether or not anyone heard, wouldn't you just know in your heart that you needed to make it right with that person?

 In starting to apoligize a softness occurs in your heart and perhaps your conscience gets pricked and the light flows in. I would like to believe the best about Jeff, Roberto and Danny but the past keeps getting in the way.... These men that are so fondly called shepherds don't care about the flock. They have no shepherd qualities. How are the little sheep who need shepherds going to keep the shepherds in line? Sheep don't keep the shepherds accountable..... Little sheep need someone who honestly care about their welfare. The LB's of SLO have shown over and over there is no care. These men need to step down!

Heide

[garylwilson]

Hi all
My name is Gary Wilson.  I just wante to add my 2 cents to what Phil said.  Ok maybe my input is only worth 1 cent.  Nevertheless, here I go.
I came into the Fullerton assembly back in 1972.  I have NO doubt that God lead me.  NO DOUBT.  George was away.  I saw Christ and God confirmed my coming in my richly opening the scriptures to me.
What I saw was Christ.  
I have left and come back several times because I stopped walking with the Lord.  
Well, I am back now.  I believe that God can and will lead me.  I am here for now.  That could change.

What is on my heart is that everyone needs to make the decision to stay and leave before God.  
We are all brethern.  For you that are now in other places  "God bless you and lead you"
I am grieved that so many were offended and mistreated.
For us that are staying because we believe God has us here, please don't look at us as others have looked at you.
What am I saying - Haven't others looked down on you as deceived, less than, out of fellowship, etc. etc.
Please don't label all of us as mindless, spineless, lightless puppets.
We are brethern.  We are all seeking to determine what God's will for us is.
The church at Corith had countless problems.  Paul didn't gloss over them.  He addressed them 1 by 1.  Sometimes with great rebuke but always in love of Christ.
We in Fullerton are going through things 1 by 1 and hoping to come to uniamity in all matters.
Please pray for us.  The task is huge.  Their is much pain and much uncertainity.
What has left the greatest impression on my heart throughout the years.  Their have been ones that have loved me and came to me when I was totally discouraged and disgusted with my self.
Sounds like their are many that did not receive that.
Even so that is not the final reason why I am still here.  I still have the conviction that God wants me here.  I am praying for God to confirm this.  
Yes much radical change needs to take place.  But isn't possible that
the same Christ who took 11 men who denied Him in his greatest hour of need and then in Love instructed and empowered these same men to be his disciples, do the same for us.
We are all failures.  We all need Him.  We all need each other.
So I as one brother who for the moment am staying say to all of you
who have left we are brothers and sisters in Christ.
We need each other.  
I will pray for God's leading and blessing in your life, please pray for God's leading and blessing in ours.

Brokenhearted but hopeful
Gary Wilson
Gary Wilson

[Inga]

This is a small observation from someone who attended some Assembly meetings and a few other private gatherings and was exposed to members within the last few years.  

First, nobody owes me any apologies for anything (in my humble opinion).

Second, my observations are:

1.) That there was much talk of repenting, and submitting oneself to the church leaders for repentance and Christ.

2.) There was much mention of other churches not being "real" churches, and their paths not being the "true path" to Christ.

3.) There was not as much talk of the love and forgiveness Christ brought when he died for us.

4.) Many members I met had their entire lives tied up in the church and I rarely heard them mention anything else but the church, church activities, other church members etc.

5.) I experienced a similar attitude at the Mormon church a "cult" in some circles.

To sum this up, I met many kind, generous, loving people at the assembly.  I was and am only friends with one of them.
I never returned to the Assembly and would never do so.