|
BenJapheth
Guest
|
 |
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2003, 09:49:41 pm » |
|
John, you didn't answer any of my points, you just went after me personally, ....If I'm wrong show me where. I'd love to be corrected. I have no fidelity to error (that I know of). Agenda? I have no agenda. I got involved in all this stuff reluctantly...I look forward to my withdrawal from this whole situation as God gives me leave. Forgive me for the carelessness, I thought at first it was Garth Xander at first - maybe that's also wrong...I have nothing against you or anyone who associates with you; except that one needs to be godly in persuasion and not come off as proud. Let's be clear - Yes - I think you do and whoever "Knucklehead is" dropped the ball when it comes to successfully "fishing for men" and it has nothing to do with his association with you or not. ad hominem = He who has the son has the life. I don't see pride, brutal attacks, believing the worse about others as being biblical. So, don't flatter yourselves or others that this is scriptural. I look forward to any biblical correction or instruction you'd like to provide, so far I see none....Just rantings of a frustrated man. Love you John, Chuck Nate and I have gone to PMs...But, here's a couple things for you Mr. Knucklehead. [ ( 'takes'...that's a John Malone expression - bible interpretation as 'takes'...Mr. Knuckehead are you John Malone? Your email is bgates@malone.net ...hmmmm? Be careful from the fountain that you're sipping from, my friend. Good Bible and Good Christian don't necessarily go together, ever heard of J.N. Darby?) Chuck,
Perceptive of you. Bill Gillespie aka Mr. Knucklehead is a colleague of John's - either at church, at work, or both. They sound the same, don't they? Scary. I think C. Schollmeyer is associated with them also, but maybe not.
Pat Facts: don't let them get in the way. "Takes" is a common sports expression, popularized by Jim Rome, the national sports radio talk show host. Mr Knucklehead's email address is not as Chcuk Vanasse said. CV is just a real careless guy that has an abitious agenda, and is driven by it. Good Bible and Good Christian DO necessarily go together, to say otherwise is to foist perncious error suchs as "You can be Biblically correct and Spiritually wrong." Darby was only wrong if the Bible says he was. This is the worst ad hominem attack a Christian can make: "he may be correct according to the Scriptures, but he's a bad guy." Horrible stuff!! Vanesse is just more Mike Zach, and you are still buying it Pat! Bill Gillespie is a long time friend of your father's Pat, and associated with him openly when you and Wayne would not. You guys have now taken to be enemies against brethren without any cause whatsoever. You have moved to ad hominem attacks and variance to extend your malice to any who associate with me. That's pretty wicked stuff: and more of the same. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
BenJapheth
Guest
|
|
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2003, 11:39:02 pm » |
|
John, forgive me for saying your response were the "rantings of a frustrated man." I fell into an unseemly provocation. My words were gratuitous and unecessary. I would like to ask you forgiveness for my unChristlike attitude. Chuck Vanasse John, you didn't answer any of my points, you just went after me personally, ....If I'm wrong show me where. I'd love to be corrected. I have no fidelity to error (that I know of). Agenda? I have no agenda. I got involved in all this stuff reluctantly...I look forward to my withdrawal from this whole situation as God gives me leave. Forgive me for the carelessness, I thought at first it was Garth Xander at first - maybe that's also wrong...I have nothing against you or anyone who associates with you; except that one needs to be godly in persuasion and not come off as proud. Let's be clear - Yes - I think you do and whoever "Knucklehead is" dropped the ball when it comes to successfully "fishing for men" and it has nothing to do with his association with you or not. ad hominem = He who has the son has the life. I don't see pride, brutal attacks, believing the worse about others as being biblical. So, don't flatter yourselves or others that this is scriptural. I look forward to any biblical correction or instruction you'd like to provide, so far I see none....Just rantings of a frustrated man. Love you John, Chuck Nate and I have gone to PMs...But, here's a couple things for you Mr. Knucklehead. [ ( 'takes'...that's a John Malone expression - bible interpretation as 'takes'...Mr. Knuckehead are you John Malone? Your email is bgates@malone.net ...hmmmm? Be careful from the fountain that you're sipping from, my friend. Good Bible and Good Christian don't necessarily go together, ever heard of J.N. Darby?) Chuck,
Perceptive of you. Bill Gillespie aka Mr. Knucklehead is a colleague of John's - either at church, at work, or both. They sound the same, don't they? Scary. I think C. Schollmeyer is associated with them also, but maybe not.
Pat Facts: don't let them get in the way. "Takes" is a common sports expression, popularized by Jim Rome, the national sports radio talk show host. Mr Knucklehead's email address is not as Chcuk Vanasse said. CV is just a real careless guy that has an abitious agenda, and is driven by it. Good Bible and Good Christian DO necessarily go together, to say otherwise is to foist perncious error suchs as "You can be Biblically correct and Spiritually wrong." Darby was only wrong if the Bible says he was. This is the worst ad hominem attack a Christian can make: "he may be correct according to the Scriptures, but he's a bad guy." Horrible stuff!! Vanesse is just more Mike Zach, and you are still buying it Pat! Bill Gillespie is a long time friend of your father's Pat, and associated with him openly when you and Wayne would not. You guys have now taken to be enemies against brethren without any cause whatsoever. You have moved to ad hominem attacks and variance to extend your malice to any who associate with me. That's pretty wicked stuff: and more of the same. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
BenJapheth
Guest
|
|
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2003, 11:39:25 pm » |
|
John, forgive me for saying your response were the "rantings of a frustrated man." I fell into an unseemly provocation. My words were gratuitous and unecessary. I would like to ask you forgiveness for my unChristlike attitude. Chuck Vanasse John, you didn't answer any of my points, you just went after me personally, ....If I'm wrong show me where. I'd love to be corrected. I have no fidelity to error (that I know of). Agenda? I have no agenda. I got involved in all this stuff reluctantly...I look forward to my withdrawal from this whole situation as God gives me leave. Forgive me for the carelessness, I thought at first it was Garth Xander at first - maybe that's also wrong...I have nothing against you or anyone who associates with you; except that one needs to be godly in persuasion and not come off as proud. Let's be clear - Yes - I think you do and whoever "Knucklehead is" dropped the ball when it comes to successfully "fishing for men" and it has nothing to do with his association with you or not. ad hominem = He who has the son has the life. I don't see pride, brutal attacks, believing the worse about others as being biblical. So, don't flatter yourselves or others that this is scriptural. I look forward to any biblical correction or instruction you'd like to provide, so far I see none....Just rantings of a frustrated man. Love you John, Chuck Nate and I have gone to PMs...But, here's a couple things for you Mr. Knucklehead. [ ( 'takes'...that's a John Malone expression - bible interpretation as 'takes'...Mr. Knuckehead are you John Malone? Your email is bgates@malone.net ...hmmmm? Be careful from the fountain that you're sipping from, my friend. Good Bible and Good Christian don't necessarily go together, ever heard of J.N. Darby?) Chuck,
Perceptive of you. Bill Gillespie aka Mr. Knucklehead is a colleague of John's - either at church, at work, or both. They sound the same, don't they? Scary. I think C. Schollmeyer is associated with them also, but maybe not.
Pat Facts: don't let them get in the way. "Takes" is a common sports expression, popularized by Jim Rome, the national sports radio talk show host. Mr Knucklehead's email address is not as Chcuk Vanasse said. CV is just a real careless guy that has an abitious agenda, and is driven by it. Good Bible and Good Christian DO necessarily go together, to say otherwise is to foist perncious error suchs as "You can be Biblically correct and Spiritually wrong." Darby was only wrong if the Bible says he was. This is the worst ad hominem attack a Christian can make: "he may be correct according to the Scriptures, but he's a bad guy." Horrible stuff!! Vanesse is just more Mike Zach, and you are still buying it Pat! Bill Gillespie is a long time friend of your father's Pat, and associated with him openly when you and Wayne would not. You guys have now taken to be enemies against brethren without any cause whatsoever. You have moved to ad hominem attacks and variance to extend your malice to any who associate with me. That's pretty wicked stuff: and more of the same. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Nate Dogg
Guest
|
|
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2003, 01:03:01 am » |
|
Yikes,
This is turning into a giant slugfest! I am sorry my posts caused everyone so much grief, though I do appreciate folks coming to my defense. I am trying to ask these questions in a spirit of inquiry and honest humility (Thanks for your email Chuck!) and my only hope is that they will be answered that way. Or, if not, let us agree to disagree! May the love of Christ constrain us. Or as my favorite prophet Micah says, These things does the Lord God ask of thee: do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with your God.
love and blessings,
Nate
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
psalm51
Guest
|
|
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2003, 02:30:30 am » |
|
John,
Please forgive me for my sarcastic and unloving attitude. "Love...does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered." I Cor. 13:5. "Love never fails." I. Cor. 13:8. I'm sorry. I have much to learn about the love of God.
Pat
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
BenJapheth
Guest
|
|
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2003, 05:43:11 am » |
|
Both. Chuck Vanesse
I doubt you actually believe you can learn substantial things from anyone, but if you do it’s a problem you should deal with.
I didn’t quantify the hope I have for Nate...you did. I was asking you to give me some hope for him by helping Nate with some solid bible takes. Where you get off as though I’m putting you in God’s place, I don’t know...that’s way out in left field where the little boy’s who can’t catch the baseball swat at butterflys. It is Nates who said you “quasi-georgites” have the ability to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.
Maybe since your mom washed your mouth out with soap you haven’t said or written the word “crap” but you sure are full of it.
Why is it such a big slam that I don’t think Nate has any solid takes on the Bible? Hold off until I really have one. Have Grandpa Miller read what you think are “some excellent takes” (“takes”...how do you know that is not a Mr. Knucklehead expression) by Nate. Let me know if he agrees with you.
BTW, did I violate the two halves that equal the whole or is it the same half.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
BenJapheth
Guest
|
|
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2003, 06:09:45 am » |
|
Garth, the clever put downs only defeat you and others...But, mostly you and your credibility. You're very intelligent you could be a huge help to people here. Pat is Nate's Mom, I'm his uncle - Deliberately provoking Pat, Nate and I accomplishes nothing. You simply distance yourself from those you would hope to assist. If indeed that is what you'd like to accomplish. Patty was simply seeking to get her attitude right. Hey, wherever we stopped being civil - Can we turn the clock back? Nate's fairly easy to reason with from the scriptures - I've done it. I don't think he - or anyone for that matter - responds well to provocation. Why don't you PM Nate and lay-out your case? I think he is quite entreatable...Or, email him and copy me at chuck@vanant.com, we can work together. My point - That's what Christ would do. He would be direct, yet His way and manner would be seasoned as with salt. That's the half of the bible I'm talking about, "As the Father has sent Me, so I send you." We are His ambassadors. All the best to you, Garth...Sometime when you have some time I'd like to chat with you by phone. 913.488.1046. Kimberly, gave me your number a while back would you mind me calling you. I don't write that well, nor do I type very fast...I deal better speaking with someone. And, if I've pushed your button...I apologize and let's start thinking about the best of each other and start over? Fair enough? Your Pal in Kansas, Chuck I have much to learn about the love of God.
Pat
I will definitely agree to agree with you on this one. Will you agree to agree with me? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
karensanford
Guest
|
|
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2003, 06:21:57 am » |
|
Did I miss something? Where did Garth come into this? Garth X?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Heide
Guest
|
|
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2003, 08:53:43 am » |
|
Back to head coverings folks, I got questions! This is one of those things that I started asking questions about before I left. For example, if a woman is praying or prophesing then she should wear a head covering. However, at a wedding or funeral she is not, then why is she wearing a head covering? Also if she doesn't want to and the end of that verse says "if anyone has a problem with this then we don't do it" (my paraphrase) Then why are women pressured into wearing one?
Story for you: Imagine Rachel's wedding (SLO). I am sitting next to a nice christian couple, we are talking. The ceremony begins and I pull out my head covering. They wouldn't talk to me the rest of the night. Did I just create a division? YES Did I bring them closer to Christ? NO
Heide
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
BenJapheth
Guest
|
|
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2003, 10:32:47 pm » |
|
Andrea, here's my non-answer answer... There are some huge issues in your and Joe's lives right now that are of a far greater imporance than getting the "head-covering" issue right. Think about it. Move on the big areas, and then you'll probably have some light to start on issues like head-covering. "The wise man knows the proper time and procedure." To continue the conversation with myself......I realize that this is a non-essential subject and does not necessarily bear on where one would go to church.
Here is what I have come up with in my study.
The two principles that come out of this chapter:
1. There is an order that needs to be shown
2. Man's glory should be covered
The question is "can we can maintain these principles without the veil/headcovering?" And if you would say yes, then how?
Still studying!
Andrea
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Eulaha L. Long
Guest
|
|
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2003, 03:07:38 am » |
|
I remember inviting girls from the campus to the Assembly for worship, and dreading the fact that she's be asked to put on a head covering, and all the questions that would surface as a result. It seemed to take the focus of the worship from Christ to "Why do I have to wear this thing??"  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
BenJapheth
Guest
|
|
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2003, 05:28:41 am » |
|
Hey, Get Back to Dancing! [/b] Chuck, Does that mean that you don't want to listen to my conversation with myself anymore?  Like I said, I realize that it is a non-essential subject....just thinking through it. I like to think of many problems simultaneously. Keeps my mind really dull...I mean sharp. Change the dancing picture to a picture with me holding a head covering with a question mark over my head.  Andrea If I were you I'd forget the head-covering gig...Get back to the joy of the Lord! That's a much more worthy subject for your excellent mind, Andrea! Think of me holding a picture of you holding a head-covering with a question mark over your head....Got it?! Now think of me with an even bigger question mark over my head! Andrea, the shackles are off, get back to dancing! Hey, Andrea I met you...You have long hair, forget the cloth. Hey, 100 years ago how many woman studied the scriptures? Does that mean you should stop? If God's leading you and your husband to have you put a head-covering on - Put it on girl! Stop the navel gazing....In fact, being the only one in a church of no women with head-coverings may be one of your first acts of faith. Whatever you do - Do it by faith. There's liberty lady! Just proceed by faith...There are no slick answers on this one. Hey, here's a BIG subject...Jesus talked more about this than any other subject after His death and resurrection...The great GO! commands...Why don't we practice that one?....Now there's something worth pondering. Or, why do most churches' money go for building morgages and staff salaries rather than for helping the poor, the widows, for strangers and those who work hard at preaching and teaching? Let's solve the big issues...on the little issues go forward in faith....And, meanwhile, dance! And, meanwhile, dance! [/b] |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 26, 2003, 05:31:30 am by :: Chuck Vanasse :: »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
wmathews
Guest
|
|
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2003, 06:54:29 am » |
|
Hey, here's a BIG subject...Jesus talked more about this than any other subject after His death and resurrection...The great GO! commands...Why don't we practice that one?....Now there's something worth pondering.
Or, why do most churches' money go for building morgages and staff salaries rather than for helping the poor, the widows, for strangers and those who work hard at preaching and teaching?
Let's solve the big issues...on the little issues go forward in faith....
I am with you Chuck....while 100 million are dying of AIDS in Africa we are quibbling about non-essentials, note I did not say non-important. There is a great article in this months Christianity Today about Bono and his mission to Africa and AIDS. Praise God for Franklin Graham and his wakeup to these issues. Time to wake up to the souls in desperate need around us, not to emulate Nero's fiddling while Rome is burning.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 26, 2003, 06:56:40 am by wmathews »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
moonflower
Guest
|
|
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2003, 07:17:04 am » |
|
Hi Andrea,
Since I will pray for Africa, and have not the time or the money to go there myself or to finance someone else's journey, and since discussing/wearing a headcovering does not keep me from dancing/rejoicing, or preaching the gospel, I'll tell you what someone else told me years ago when I was still attending a church where no one else wore headcoverings. If the custom of the church did not include women wearing headcoverings, I was free to worship uncovered. But you are doing current research about it and I like to hear your conversations, so keep talking.....It's a new day. (By the way, have you read John Malone's discussion of headcoverings?)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Heide
Guest
|
|
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2003, 07:46:59 am » |
|
The real question to headcovering is? All those woman that were invited out, wore headcoverings. Did even half those women come back? NO
So by wearing a headcovering I teach the angels but lose the women....
Sounds right to me, NOT (sarcasm)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
