Police Protection should be a Right not a Privilege.

[David Mauldin]

 One thing I hate about my job is the feeling of vulnerability. I work at an elementary school in Buena Park. An elementary school campus is a choice place for people who just want to "hang out"
There have been times (Ater school has been let out) when I was alone in my room only to find a group of Gang Bangers all huddled in a conference outside my door. Other times I arrive to work only to find graffiti on my doors and windows. I and others have made numerous complaints and reports to the police department. This has resulted in little to no improvement. In fact there have been times when I have called the Buena Park police to report a dangerous situation only to get a recording. "If this is an emergency hang up and call 911" So I have even opted to go physically down to the department and talk to someone I can get an answer from. This is a very old shabby looking room that resembles and old bus station in downtown L.A. You have to stand in line with people who look like they are there trying to get their relatives out of jail. Now contrast this to the police department of Irvine. (I live in Irvine) The department is in a nice building. It is new, clean and five well mannered people are ready to answer any questions and problems you might have. Why?  Why the difference?  Why should there be five people ready to takle my "Where do I take my old Christmas tree?" problem when in B.P. I can't get any help from something that is much more serious?   This is wrong!! Terribly wrong!!!!   It clearly shows that we live in a society where money gets you basic freedoms that are supose to be guaranteed!

[Jem]

Oh that it was that easy. I don't know about Buena Park, but I know Compton is policed by the LA County Sheriffs Dept (the old Compton Police Dept and the old guard city council having been bounced due to corruption) and getting them to do something has more to do with crime rates than money. I would assume it is the same in Buena Park. When the cops are swamped with drugs, auto theft and murders a little tagging and loitering is pushed down the priority list. The more dense an urban area and the lower the economic scale--of residents, not law enforcement--the greater the crime rate, generally. That is why as soon as families can afford it they move out. The middle class moved out of Compton and into Buena Park years ago. Now the urban push has reached Buena Park and eveyone is moving to Irvine. It doesn't make it right, but it has been ever thus in our large cities.

P.S. I recognize my husband's classroom, not by the number, but by the bullet hole in the door.

[matthew r. sciaini]

One thing I hate about my job is the feeling of vulnerability. I work at an elementary school in Buena Park. An elementary school campus is a choice place for people who just want to "hang out"
There have been times (Ater school has been let out) when I was alone in my room only to find a group of Gang Bangers all huddled in a conference outside my door. Other times I arrive to work only to find graffiti on my doors and windows. I and others have made numerous complaints and reports to the police department. This has resulted in little to no improvement. In fact there have been times when I have called the Buena Park police to report a dangerous situation only to get a recording. "If this is an emergency hang up and call 911" So I have even opted to go physically down to the department and talk to someone I can get an answer from. This is a very old shabby looking room that resembles and old bus station in downtown L.A. You have to stand in line with people who look like they are there trying to get their relatives out of jail. Now contrast this to the police department of Irvine. (I live in Irvine) The department is in a nice building. It is new, clean and five well mannered people are ready to answer any questions and problems you might have. Why?  Why the difference?  Why should there be five people ready to takle my "Where do I take my old Christmas tree?" problem when in B.P. I can't get any help from something that is much more serious?   This is wrong!! Terribly wrong!!!!   It clearly shows that we live in a society where money gets you basic freedoms that are supose to be guaranteed!

Dave:

Since when is police protection a "basic freedom that is supposed to be guaranteed"?

I know that our constitution allows for militia, and that we are able to have police forces in our cities and counties to do the work of a militia for us, WITH THE TAX DOLLARS OF THOSE BEING PROTECTED PAYING FOR IT, but I don't believe there is anything in our goverment documents GUARANTEEING a police force, let alone that it be a good one.

Anybody, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.  I've been misinformed or ill-informed before on this board.

Matt Sciaini   

[al Hartman]

Dave,

From your comments on another thread I gather that you consider endangering your life or safety on behalf of a cause (e.g. educating the underprivileged) to be foolish, and actually sacrificing either to be a waste.

Can't you find a teaching position somewhere that you'd feel safe?  No matter how many cops are on the streets in an area such as you describe, they may not be near you when you need them.

Then again, day-to-day life comes with no guarantees-- the area around the World Trade Center was certainly well policed.

al

[Oscar]

Dave:

Since when is police protection a "basic freedom that is supposed to be guaranteed"?

I know that our constitution allows for militia, and that we are able to have police forces in our cities and counties to do the work of a militia for us, WITH THE TAX DOLLARS OF THOSE BEING PROTECTED PAYING FOR IT, but I don't believe there is anything in our goverment documents GUARANTEEING a police force, let alone that it be a good one.

Anybody, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.  I've been misinformed or ill-informed before on this board.

Matt Sciaini   

Matt,

In the past, people who have been criime victims have attempted to sue varous city, county, and state governments for not preventing the crimes they experienced.  The courts have uniformly held that the responisbility of the police is general, not specific.  They have not been found neglligent for not preventing specific crimes.

Dave M. asked "what's the difference?"  The difference is that you get what you pay for.  Buena Park, or any other city, can decide to spend their money on police services rather than libraries, parks, or whatever.  The city council votes the budget. 

Irvine has two advantages.  Low crime rates and high citizen income.  They have more money to solve a smaller problem.  If someone feels that city governments "should" all provide the same level of protection as other cities do, they need to state a reason why this is so.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

[David Mauldin]

  Jem, your statement "It doesn't make it right" is exactly my point. Its not right. When people take responsibility it is not an issue. Al, that is not what I was saying on the other thread. Had you read my post I said a more REASONABLE APROACH would have prevented the situation. For example I no longer stay after work. I leave at 3:00 and come in at 5:30 A.M. Thus I avoid the stress of having to deal with dangerous situations. Tom, if the State government is going to hold my students to the same standard as Irvine then it should provide an equal environment. This isn't the only reason I believe that police protection should be a right but I think it is the only one you would half-way accept. Am I wrong?  Do you think standardized testing is wrong??? What is your opinion of the Katrina disaster??  The federal government bears no responsibility?What were other countries thinking?  "Why is the U.S. spending trillions on Iraq when this kind of poverty is prevelent in its own country?" Wouldn't investing money in education, community developement prove itself to be the best path???

[Jem]

Dave,

You said, "When people take responisbility it is not an issue." Not sure who you mean. The responsibility of huddled gang bangers and tagging starts way back before the police are called. In Compton it is the neighbors, parents, citizens that are trying to take back the streets. The police, and all the money therewith, are rather busy with the horrendous amount of murders that have happened there this year. The community is starting to fight back. My husband pulled over on Rosecrans Blvd and talked some taggers away from a church. Another lady at his school broke up a huddles mass of gang bangers from the middle school as only she could do, "Oh, unh huh, I know y'all have homework to do. You're not hanging here. Jorge, I know your mama and I know she don't want you hanging around here when there is homework to be done." She might say to you Dave, "Don't go talking to the po-po when you can talk to the regular folks." Engage the community. Be the adult. Do to them as you would have them do to you, to the worst of them. They are not as scary as the Aucas, but they have some of the same fears. There are greater forces for change than $$$ and law enforcement. Government will never be the messiah. It has never and will never work that way.

[Elizabeth H]

 When people take responsibility it is not an issue.

 Am I wrong?  Do you think standardized testing is wrong??? What is your opinion of the Katrina disaster??  The federal government bears no responsibility?What were other countries thinking?  "Why is the U.S. spending trillions on Iraq when this kind of poverty is prevelent in its own country?" Wouldn't investing money in education, community developement prove itself to be the best path???

Hi Dave.

When people (and by this I mean individuals) do NOT take responsibility for their own lives, huge problems occur. Yes, there are extenuating factors: poverty being one of them. But there have been many, many broke and impoverished persons in this country who still chose not to do drugs, engage in dangerous & unhealthy sexual practices, or turn to violence & crime.

Let's just cut to the heart of all of your posts: there has already been a major experiment in government controlled societies: it was called communism. Marx's theories sounded progressive and revolutionary on paper, but implementing those theories brought about far more bloodshed during the 20th century than all the big, bad, evil USA's wars combined. I don't know about you, but I'll take living in Irvine with all its irritating homogenity, annoyingly low crime rate and boringly excellent schools than say, North Korea anyone?

E.

[Oscar]

  Jem, your statement "It doesn't make it right" is exactly my point. Its not right. When people take responsibility it is not an issue. Al, that is not what I was saying on the other thread. Had you read my post I said a more REASONABLE APROACH would have prevented the situation. For example I no longer stay after work. I leave at 3:00 and come in at 5:30 A.M. Thus I avoid the stress of having to deal with dangerous situations. Tom, if the State government is going to hold my students to the same standard as Irvine then it should provide an equal environment. This isn't the only reason I believe that police protection should be a right but I think it is the only one you would half-way accept. Am I wrong?  Do you think standardized testing is wrong??? What is your opinion of the Katrina disaster??  The federal government bears no responsibility?What were other countries thinking?  "Why is the U.S. spending trillions on Iraq when this kind of poverty is prevelent in its own country?" Wouldn't investing money in education, community developement prove itself to be the best path???

Dave,

Seems to me that there is plenty you and your fellow teachers could do without needing a complete overhaul of state and national law:

1. You are the union rep, right?   Get together with the other reps and make campus safety policies a BIG issue in the next negotiations.  In LAUSD, all gates are locked but one, and any persons entering the campus must sign in at the office, or at a table right next to the gate.  Anyone found on campus, like these kids are told to leave immediately.  If they don't, the police are called immediately.  It is already against state and local laws to enter the campus.

2. Raise a ruckus at the next staff meeting about it.  Get all the teachers to complain to local and district administrators.  Get parents to call the school and complain that the campus is not safe.  Squeeky Wheels get greased.

3. Tell the kids to leave yourself.  That is actually your responsibility as a staff member.  If they don't, take out your cell phone right there and "make a call" to the "police", (which is really your own answering machine or whatever), and loudly tell "Captain Jones" that you are being threatened by gang bangers and tell him you need help right now.

4. If the GB's are actually threatening you or others, hatch a plan to videotape them, then file and press charges.  In California the threat of violence, even through gestures, is a felony.  (always have witnesses if you do anything like this...the little angels will lie like rugs.)

5. Or you could always just complain that the world isn't fair.

Thomas Maddux
Who has been there.

[David Mauldin]

Yes Tom, Jem  you are right, getting involved is the resposibility of every citizen. Tom I could type a lot of "yes we tried that stories" but I don't have the time. The last answer I received was that the B.P. police dept is upset that they were denied funding by the voters!!!  (These voters dont live in my school neighborhood!) Thus when we do call many times they dont even show up. But that is no excuse.  I try to stay involved in the political process. Last September 24th I marched with 30,000-40,000 people in L.A. to protest the war in Iraq. How bout you?  Were you one of the 17 "Support the Troops" people?   


                                  Workers Unite!!!!

[Oscar]

Dave,

1. So, you document the incidents when the police don't show.  Then you collect the horror stories, (if there really are any), take photos of the grafitti and make a set for each city councilman.  Then you go with several teachers and parents to the city council meeting and tell the stories while they look at their individual sets.  The local papers usually has a reporter at city council meetings.  Call ahead and make sure.

Or, if that fails, organize a parent-teacher demonstration in front of your school...picket signs and all.  Call the TV channels and let them know about it ahead of time.  "Hey Hey, Ho Ho, Crips and Bloods have got to go!"

My point, Dave, is that sitting in the teacher's room blaming everyone else for your plight is fruitless.  In my experience, this is all that usually happens.  There is much you can do, if your concern rises to that level.

2. You already know what I think about Iraq.  No point in repeating it.

3. It really cracks me up to hear schoolteachers start talking like coalminers and steelworkers facing 19th century working conditions.  This usually only happens at contract negotiation time. 

BTW, the workers have united from time to time.  Russia, China, North Korea and so on.  Not impressed.

Thomas Maddux

[matthew r. sciaini]

Yes Tom, Jem  you are right, getting involved is the resposibility of every citizen. Tom I could type a lot of "yes we tried that stories" but I don't have the time. The last answer I received was that the B.P. police dept is upset that they were denied funding by the voters!!!  (These voters dont live in my school neighborhood!) Thus when we do call many times they dont even show up. But that is no excuse.  I try to stay involved in the political process. Last September 24th I marched with 30,000-40,000 people in L.A. to protest the war in Iraq. How bout you?  Were you one of the 17 "Support the Troops" people?   


                                  Workers Unite!!!!

Dave Mauldin:

I don't think that marching with tens of thousands of other people in L.A. to protest a war accomplishes anything. 

One radio commenator has a phrase which describes what this is.....symbolism over substance.

Grand gestures, but nothing really CHANGES.

This is somewhat reminiscient of some of the tent meetings that we had in Fullerton (I know you remember them!)......

One gathers with a number of other people for meetings and, ostensibly, to serve the Lord by evangelizing.  But we know what really took place for the most part, right?  Yes, people got saved at these meetings.  But many of us were there because it was an assembly function....we talked with our friends, and watched the tent....but where was the lasting fruit?......(at least much of the time)

When you are protesting, to whom do you address your protest?  The air space above Los Angeles?  My guess is that you probably had a rollicking good time shouting out with people of similar opinion, knowing full well that you would have opportunity to do the same again in the future.  But have we pulled out of Iraq?

Not that I spend time worrying about our involvement in Iraq, but if YOU REALLY wanted to see something change, why not start by pestering your local representatives?   Members of Congress are allergic to bothersome letters and troublesome constituents, especially when in large numbers.
Or, to take it a step further, why don't 35,000 or 40,000 of you go down to Camp Pendleton and protest there?  Perhaps jump the guards.  You should probably bring weapons with you, however;  for sure the guards will have them.   

My point is, that while I would not deny you the right and the joy of peaceful protest, your march in L.A. had no real meaning, no real effect.   

Likewise, as others have said earlier, with your complaints about "feeling insecure" at work.  You can complain all you want about the lousy police protection in your school district, but it does no good. 

Matt Sciaini