Looks pretty well under control

[affirming]

I see things have finally quieted down around here:

No discussion that is the least bit controversial,
Mostly  boring posts by no more than 3 people

I think things are pretty well moderated!

[Mark C.]

Hi Raja!

  Criticism re. the quality of the conversation here without a willingness to enter in and to try and improve it tells more about your character than the true nature of the BB.

   A 2 word phrase "cheap shot" comes to mind as being the best description re. such a contribution as you have made.  If you are truly interested in improving the talk here please feel free to have at it and then let the readers judge your performance.

  The only reason that your comments will be "moderated" are if you use foul language, etc. as you will not be deleted just because of your opinions; this is true no matter how contrary or ridiculous your points may be.

  I look forward to the improvement of this BB via your insightful and helpful comments.

                                                              God bless,  Mark C.

   

[brian]

look out, here come the big bad moderators!

interesting that you apparently tried to log in twice as the infamous frank before you reincarnated as the great raja.

brian

[Joe Sperling]

Raja----

To be frank with you I....oh that's right, you already are frank,
so I'd better keep my mouth shut.

     --Joe

[Norm]

..."for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which
I have committed unto Him against that day". (2tim.1:12)
     I 've been saved for almost twenty-two years, not without real struggles and real failures. I know what it is to take myself out from under the protection of His wing and chase down what I thought was my right only to find I had forsaken my Savior for a handful of sand. God forgives, He restores, He makes new and even brings into being that which did not exist....really.
     Forgive me, I know I'm not alone, He's been so good to so many. Fact is I've been floundering for some time now. I miss meaningfull, edifying conversations in the scriptures and about things of value beyond the weather and the price of oil.... does this still happen? I think I'm becoming synical. 
     I haven't looked at or looked for anything Geftakys for upwards of two years but I do remember some of the many posts on the assembly related sites of that time and there was one disturbing yet recuring theme, everything Goerge has ever said suddenly seems to be null and void. There is no down playing his sin and deception or the apparent lack of any real accountability or repentance, at least there hasn't been to my knowlege, but can not and has not God moved on behalf of the sheep sometimes in spite of the shepard? A brother once said to me, " I wonder if God was ever in it." He said this in response to my asking him how he could do a 180 degree turn on an issue he held to with great conviction for more than thirteen solely based on one man's failure. George, Tim, Dave, Dan, Jim, Mike and many others were men God used but men they were. They were no more capable of blowing it than any one of us, some blew it big and we still feel the consequences. God saved me through this ministry and I know many of you. I learned to hear His voice, to value and search His word, and that the cross is so much more than decerative or symbolic. God was in it. 
      I know in my head He has not moved but my heart has trouble finding Him these days. If you pray, remember me. When you get a promise, share it...please.
      This is not to liven things up or be just one more voice. I'm new, this is my hello.
                                                                              Thanks.   (micah6:6-8)
       

[summer007]

Norm,  Good post. I thought of the verse "Now Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" from Romans 10. It's good to just get into the word, reading it, this builds your faith up. Its your daily bread spiritually speaking your spirit will starve with-out it. "Your words were found and I did eat them and they were the joy and rejoicing of my heart. Jeremiah ? Yes God's still there, what does it say, you will seek me and find me when you search for me with all of your heart. This board has really simmered down since i had checked it about 6 months ago. Yes were all human, and many of us had good fellowship together in the assm I'm really over it ,it's been so long the distressing part is to learn of all the false-teaching thats come out and to think you were a part of that, and people that were under legal bondage for years, who may have sincerly loved the Lord and thought they were doing his will, but were duped by false doctrine. Seems most are over the initial shock, and have moved on. Lost years? Each one's work will be tried with fire of what sort it is..God knows if it was wood, hay or stubble, or gold, etc...In the end we know the cross is foolishness to the lost, to the world, but to us who are saved it's the power of God. Because it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe. Yes there's more to talk about then are perfect houses, jobs, credit, cars, etc. The spirit searches all things even the deep things of Christ. Marantha.. The Lord Cometh..........Summer.

[outdeep]

..."for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which
I have committed unto Him against that day". (2tim.1:12)
     I 've been saved for almost twenty-two years, not without real struggles and real failures. I know what it is to take myself out from under the protection of His wing and chase down what I thought was my right only to find I had forsaken my Savior for a handful of sand. God forgives, He restores, He makes new and even brings into being that which did not exist....really.
     Forgive me, I know I'm not alone, He's been so good to so many. Fact is I've been floundering for some time now. I miss meaningfull, edifying conversations in the scriptures and about things of value beyond the weather and the price of oil.... does this still happen? I think I'm becoming synical. 
     I haven't looked at or looked for anything Geftakys for upwards of two years but I do remember some of the many posts on the assembly related sites of that time and there was one disturbing yet recuring theme, everything Goerge has ever said suddenly seems to be null and void. There is no down playing his sin and deception or the apparent lack of any real accountability or repentance, at least there hasn't been to my knowlege, but can not and has not God moved on behalf of the sheep sometimes in spite of the shepard? A brother once said to me, " I wonder if God was ever in it." He said this in response to my asking him how he could do a 180 degree turn on an issue he held to with great conviction for more than thirteen solely based on one man's failure. George, Tim, Dave, Dan, Jim, Mike and many others were men God used but men they were. They were no more capable of blowing it than any one of us, some blew it big and we still feel the consequences. God saved me through this ministry and I know many of you. I learned to hear His voice, to value and search His word, and that the cross is so much more than decerative or symbolic. God was in it. 
      I know in my head He has not moved but my heart has trouble finding Him these days. If you pray, remember me. When you get a promise, share it...please.
      This is not to liven things up or be just one more voice. I'm new, this is my hello.
                                                                              Thanks.   (micah6:6-8)
       

I do think you are absolute right.  Some on the board board, over time, has taken the overtones that says that one day a long time ago, George and Betty sat down at the kitchen table and said, "Let's start a cult so that we can really rip off people" and nothing good came of them since.  I understand that perspective - folks are hurt and angry and naturally resist wanting to see G&B in any kind of positive light because of the hurtful things they are responsible for.

However, George had many ideas that were right on and blessed.  The reason Christian watchdog groups could never really get a handle on the Assembly is because in many ways, they taught the historical Christian faith and doctrine.   George also had ideas that I consider off, but were accepted by established Christian leaders.  And he had some ideas that were wonky.  I think things may have gotten more wonky as as any hope of accountability vanished.  But, in fairness, that doesn't diminish the fact that much of what George (and Tim who I sat under more) taught much that was true.

One good thing the Assembly had was that the majority of folks were at least interested in discussing Scripture and Christian truths.  Certainly, there is some interest in many churches today but it is not the prevailing interest in popular Christianity that prefers things in bite-size, practical, pre-digested Purpose Driven Life-like protions.

But, there are deeper books and people interested in discussion out there.  Keep looking and you will find them.

[Mark C.]

..."for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which
I have committed unto Him against that day". (2tim.1:12)
     
      I know in my head He has not moved but my heart has trouble finding Him these days. If you pray, remember me. When you get a promise, share it...please.
      This is not to liven things up or be just one more voice. I'm new, this is my hello.
                                                                              Thanks.   (micah6:6-8)
       

    Hi Norm!

   And, thanks for your honest and sincere post.  I'd like to say first that I will be praying for you and I'd like to share with you this promise:

 "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." MT. 5:3.

   I'm used to reading this verse and only recently read it again, and thought how strange this phrase is.  What does it mean to be poor in spirit?  So I went ahead and tried to figure it out.
 
 W. E. Vine translates the use of the word "spirit" here as meaning:"the sentient element in man, that by which he perceives, reflects, feels, desires." ("sentient" means to experience sensation and feeling, as well as consciousness).

   This verse, and W.E. Vine's translation seem to go right to your problem between your solid thinking vs. your troubled heart that "can't find Him."  I know exactly what you mean and I'll bet many Christians share the same feeling of inadequacy.

  So, "poor in spirit" kind of describes where you're at, because you feel a lack in your soul, and yet know in your mind that God has promised you eternal security in his love and new lilfe in His Spirit !

   What's with all this inner poverty, mourning, meekness, and hunger and thirst over my lack of righteousness that Jesus describes here?    Why is this so blessed? 

   I'm trying to think of a common sense answer here, one that makes sense to the heart that feels far from God, as well as the mind:  One's faith must control how we feel about God, the world, ourselves.

   Often former Assembly members start with how they feel, which if they're honest leaves them feeling that they are "poor in spirit."  This is a very bad habit to get into (I know as I still struggle with this) and not a healthy way to live one's life.  (I've gone into how the Assembly cultivated their version of "heart knowledge of God" in the past, and why this is a dangerous practice, but will skip it here.)

   The truth is, if you feel as if God is far away (poor in spirit) you are in a good place-- at least according to Jesus--- as long as you know in your mind that " I am persuaded that he is able, etc."

   The false notion that God's Spirit is supposed to flood our emotional lives with feelings of God's nearness, affection, assurance, etc.,  instantly when we feel the need within is not correct.  When one adds to the above false notion the idea that if  only I can believe, try, correctly choose, crucify self, etc. strong enough I can earn God's presence in my life then we set ourselves up for a real toxic religious experience.     Life will then be an up and down ride on the large ocean waves of my inner life.

  GG didn't invent Galatianism, but that system was operable in the Assembly.  As such, it took good Christian people and exchanged their liberty for the bondage of a merit system.  Just as those that deceived the Galatians used the bible and their Christian status GG twisted these good things to set us on the wrong path to not knowing God's best for our lives. (okay, so I didn't "skip it this time." )

   The Bible does say we are to have strong "hearts" as well as "minds", and there defintlely is a distinction between these words, but without the mind leading by faith trying to find God through my heart alone (feelings) will be a dark journey ( I can vouch for this personally).

  Just as GG turned God's blessing into a curse we can now turn that curse into a blessing;  notice how in the above verses in Matt. 5 those "blessed" who start out poor end up being "merciful" ( those that are sensitive and forgiving to the moral weakness of others), vs. the harsh style of phariseeism that GG and his cronies practiced. 

   The end of faith is not to feel God's presence and power but the expression of God's love to others.   Pray for me that I might experience much more of this kind of "spirit" in my own life!

                                                              God Bless,  Mark C.     
   

[Margaret]

Hello Norm--

Welcome to the board. Thank you for a heartfelt, honest post introducing yourself. Because you were saved through the Assembly, you are among those who are having the most difficult time now. One of the reasons is that the Gospel that initially brought people to faith in Christ was quickly modified into a subtly different message in the Assembly. Dr. Paul Martin of Wellspring says that a rediscovery of the true Gospel is essential to recovery.

For starters, there are a number of good articles on justification and the Gospel for believers on geftakysassembly.com in the Biblical Exposition section, such as "Righteousness for the Unrighteousness," written by a man who grew up in the Assembly.

Heb 13:5-6 is a good promise for you, Norm:  "He Himself has said, 'I will not in any way fail you, nor give you up, nor leave you without support. I will not...I will not...I will not in any degree leave you helpless, nor forsake you, nor let you down, nor relax my hold on you. Assuredly not!' So we take comfort, and are encouraged, and boldly and confidently say, 'The Lord is my helpler. I will not be seized with alarm.'"

Blessings,

Margaret

[Recovering Saint]

..."for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which
I have committed unto Him against that day". (2tim.1:12)
 I 've been saved for almost twenty-two years, not without real struggles and real failures. I know what it is to take myself out from under the protection of His wing and chase down what I thought was my right only to find I had forsaken my Savior for a handful of sand. God forgives, He restores, He makes new and even brings into being that which did not exist....really.
 Forgive me, I know I'm not alone, He's been so good to so many. Fact is I've been floundering for some time now. I miss meaningfull, edifying conversations in the scriptures and about things of value beyond the weather and the price of oil.... does this still happen? I think I'm becoming synical.
 I haven't looked at or looked for anything Geftakys for upwards of two years but I do remember some of the many posts on the assembly related sites of that time and there was one disturbing yet recuring theme, everything Goerge has ever said suddenly seems to be null and void. There is no down playing his sin and deception or the apparent lack of any real accountability or repentance, at least there hasn't been to my knowlege, but can not and has not God moved on behalf of the sheep sometimes in spite of the shepard? A brother once said to me, " I wonder if God was ever in it." He said this in response to my asking him how he could do a 180 degree turn on an issue he held to with great conviction for more than thirteen solely based on one man's failure. George, Tim, Dave, Dan, Jim, Mike and many others were men God used but men they were. They were no more capable of blowing it than any one of us, some blew it big and we still feel the consequences. God saved me through this ministry and I know many of you. I learned to hear His voice, to value and search His word, and that the cross is so much more than decerative or symbolic. God was in it.
 I know in my head He has not moved but my heart has trouble finding Him these days. If you pray, remember me. When you get a promise, share it...please.
 This is not to liven things up or be just one more voice. I'm new, this is my hello.
 Thanks. (micah6:6-8)
 

Hello Norm

You know God used a donkey once but that is to agree with you God was able to work at times in the Assembly. But as with Eli the blessing departed after many warnings went unheeded. If George and Betty ever had a heart for God and His people is debateable but in the end they should have known better than anyone of us not let it go that far. You will find the Lord Norm for He says in Jerimiah if you seek HIM with all your heart He will be found. I am out since July 2003 and have known great blessing since leaving but also great sorrow. Partly because I have a sense of  loss in being involved with something that was self feeding and not really serving God and partly because I allowed myself by my trusting nature to fall for smooth talking people peddling God's Word. As the Serpent deceived Eve we were all deceived by a seemingly innocent man who led us astray and caused many' a person's faith to become ship wreck. Too bad.

Hugh