There is a special need at this time--

[Margaret]

There are a several former "saints" who need to go to Wellspring. Wellspring is willing to give them financial assistance as much as they are able, but extra help is needed. It costs $7,500 per person for the two-week recovery program, plus there are travel expenses. Tax-deductible donations can be given directly to Wellspring Retreat (http://www.wellspringretreat.org/), and designated "Victim Assistance Fund: The Assembly." Any help would be great. Pass this on to any ex's, or others you know who might be willing to help. It is a worthy cause. Some of our churches are doing okay finanacially and wouldn't hurt if we diverted some of our tithes to help these folks.

Margaret Irons

[Eulaha L. Long]

There are a several former "saints" who need to go to Wellspring. Wellspring is willing to give them financial assistance as much as they are able, but extra help is needed. It costs $7,500 per person for the two-week recovery program, plus there are travel expenses. Tax-deductible donations can be given directly to Wellspring Retreat (http://www.wellspringretreat.org/), and designated "Victim Assistance Fund: The Assembly." Any help would be great. Pass this on to any ex's, or others you know who might be willing to help. It is a worthy cause. Some of our churches are doing okay finanacially and wouldn't hurt if we diverted some of our tithes to help these folks.

Margaret Irons

I had the privilege of going to Wellspring Retreat in 2002.  The counseling I received helped me in my recovery process. 

[outdeep]

I am in no way challenging this as a legitimate need but perhaps you can fill in a little bit of context so that we can better understand why this is a need.

There were about 1,000 folks world-wide who were involved to some degree in the Assembly.  Literally hundreds of us walked away from the group and got on with our lives.  We did it without deprogramming.  We did it without intense counseling.  We did it by reading, talking with friends, and getting involved in healthy alternatives.

That doesn't mean there isn't a need - I understand that some people have struggles that I didn't have just like I have had personal struggles that others never had.

Since the vast majority folks successfully walked away from the Assembly to a new season of their life without intensive $7,800 counseling, what makes the few who need this so unique?  Were they the ones that were George's sexual victems?  Were they the ones who had significant abuse and issues before they came into the Assembly that the Assembly only made worse?

If an argument was made as to what necessitates this counseling for these individuals, I might be convinced to contribute.  However, I would not do so for the 99% of ex-Assembly members can (and have) get on through time, good teaching, healthy relationships and a supporting friends for free.

[Mark C.]

Hi Dave!

We generally view our Assembly experience from our own perspective; which you admit in your post that others may have different needs than you do (more intense and/or deeper struggles).  Of course, these individual perspectives that I have will tend toward thinking that most everyone ("99%") are probably handling their recovery as I have.

I believe that those seriously damaged by the Assembly are a much higher percentage than you have estimated, but even if that is true, you are to right to ask for some context in coming to a better understanding of what Wellspring is doing before you would feel a need to contribute.

It would be good to hear from those who went through this experience, from before to after, as I think it would be most helpful to other former members as well.  It is difficult, however, to get people to make these kind of experiences public because nobody wants to be identified as being one of the 1% who couldn't resolve their issues in a less "intense" means, such as you have been able to do.

There is a stigma that is still attached to those that seek professional psychological help, though not as much as there used to be.  For the former member interested in still holding on to their faith there is also a reluctance as we've heard that psyche professionals will lead us away from God and submerge us in some kind of Freudian view of self.

Am I some kind of special case because I am having trouble in handling life post Assembly?  Is psychological treatment for former members only for those who have deeply troubled lives?  What if I am able to cope with life in general, but still have a great deal of anger, confusion, trouble in trusting others, etc.?  These are not issues that we think might require professional help, because we tend to think of therapy as being only for those deeply disturbed  (as in: schizophrenia, clinical depression, etc.).

It is my view that those that need the most help are those whom deny they have any need at all!  There are many who have walked away (GG would be exhibit A for this premise) from the group believing and livng a lie (psychology calls this denial) and though they seem to breeze through life this is never without spiritual and psychological consequence.

  It is difficult for some to understand (even former members) the depth of damage that some have received from their sojourn in the group.  This damage is not from being physically abused, but spiritually and psychologically wounded.  I've attempted to demonstrate some of this in the Wounded Pilgrims thread via the stories there related.

  If a former member is having trouble dealing with their anger, shame, trusting others, reading their bibles and praying, trusting God, depression (not clinical depression), etc. these might be worked through in the means that you Dave suggest have been successful for most.  But, it may take years for some to struggle through with these issues. 

  Wellspring understands well these issues and can in a relatively small period help shorten the time needed to recover.  Dr. Martin of Wellspring comes from a group much like the Assembly and understands the kind of things former members are dealing with. 

  If, when I had first left, had I gone to Wellspring I think it would have been a much easier adjustment for me to make post Assembly.  If I had the means to help someone shorten that time to regain balance I would consider it a worthy investment.

  But, let's hear from some that have been through the program and hear what they have to say.

                                                                          God Bless,  Mark C.   

[outdeep]

I have done it again - something that I am working on but not successful.  I overstate my case and say things that become offensive.  I truly regret putting into print the 99% vs 1% distinction.  That was wrong of me to do. 

I am involved in a recovery ministry at my church and I should know better.  I truly know that there are many things "normal looking" people struggle with (myself included) that others have no idea about.

I apologize for suggesting this and creating a stigma.

But the thrust of my post is indeed a question.  I would like to understand better the context of folks who need help.  While Wellspring would indeed have been good for every one of us, it is $8700!  This implies a level of need that cannot be met in a way that many of us have found.  Help us donors understand why the level of need here would be such that giving here would be a good investment.

Mark's post made a good start.

[vernecarty]

Dave's comment got me thinking about something.
There are any number of understandable reasons why a person could have gotten entangled with Geftakys and the assemblies.
The question that I have personally wrestled with is why I, or any one else for that matter, remained as long as I did.
Some have argued that is was some sort of dysfunction - emotional, spiritual, social, that led to involvement in the first place.
It is certainly arguable that this is true for those who remained, myself included.
In my humble opinion, the assembly was the opportunity for expression of such dysfunction.
I suspect true recovery has to do with identifying the particular issue for each of us and by God's grace, and perhaps the help of others, dealing with it...

[Mark C.]

Dave's comment got me thinking about something.
There are any number of understandable reasons why a person could have gotten entangled with Geftakys and the assemblies.
The question that I have personally wrestled with is why I, or any one else for that matter, remained as long as I did.
Some have argued that is was some sort of dysfunction - emotional, spiritual, social, that led to involvement in the first place.
It is certainly arguable that this is true for those who remained, myself included.
In my humble opinion, the assembly was the opportunity for expression of such dysfunction.
I suspect true recovery has to do with identifying the particular issue for each of us and by God's grace, and perhaps the help of others, dealing with it...

 Thanks Verne!

  Why am I thanking you for the above quote?  The simple honesty and humility expressed in your above comments show that grace has indeed worked itself into your heart.  We can all be thankful if we can have this same attitude because that's what can turn the ashes of our Assembly experience into jewels!

  Identifying and admitting our mistakes is the kind of asking/seeking/knocking that God has promised will lead to the most blessed kind of answers!  When former members share their stories and try to understand their experience it makes is easier for all of us to face our own situation (this is why I'm thanking you Verne).

  As to why we stayed so long:  We have discussed this at length in the past, and it will vary with each individual personality, but it is my belief that it is primarily due to seduction (seduction does not always have to do with sex).

  Seduction is a form of deception that works on ones emotions.  We'd like to think that we had high spiritual thoughts that were misdirected by GG, and with many of us that most certainly was true, but GG was able to train us to accept certain feelings as being God himself working in our lives through his Spirit.

  This is nothing new, and takes advantage, not necessarily of some kind of special psychological make-up we have, but of the fact that we were simple trusting human beings.  Remember, it has been said, "a sucker is born every minute," and this is very true for most young people who are willing to take at face value what is being proffered to them--- be it a salesman, a political philosophy, etc.---- as long as the salesman/preacher is able to get us to take the emotionally enticing bait.

  After we've lived a while we begin to be more critical of these sales presentations, and this is why there were very few older folks in the Assembly.

  I came into the group, stayed, and left almost entirely on the basis of how I reacted in my emotional life.  In order to survive after leaving I had to learn how to think and it was via a venue like this BB that I was able to learn how to think through these things.  If we don't try to put our own experiences into words and gain an understanding of them we risk not learning one single thing from this period in our life--- that would be a disaster!

  On the other hand, since it is such a common experience for people to equate certain emotional states with God's Spirit, what we learn can be very valuable in offering the opposite of deception to others-- which is an ability to discern what is truly from God (especially in a church kind of setting, but also as an individual believer). 

   No, we are not particularly psychologically needy individuals, of weak character, not very bright, etc (studies of cult members have shown this is just not the case).  We share what all humans who in their youth are vulnerable to as they are in the process of seeking a purpose for why they are alive. 

                                                                 God Bless,  Mark C.   

[moonflower2]

It would be nice a Christian gesture if George Geftakys picked up the tab.

 

[Margaret]

In reply to Dave--

I think there are some general categories that might produce needs for special help after the Assembly.  People who were in leadership, as has been mentioned. People who spent most of their childhood in the Assembly. People who had trauma in their lives previous to the Assembly. People whom the Assembly traumatized--by intensive reform methods (see Eulaha's story http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Articles/PersonalAccounts/Eulaha.htm, by public shaming (see Denise Stanford's story http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Articles/PersonalAccounts/DeniseStanford.htm and Yet Another True Story http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Articles/PersonalAccounts/YetAnotherTrueStory.htm), by catch-22s which forced people to leave or be broken, etc. This list isn't intended to exclude others who might need special help. It's just a partial list of some of the more damaging aspects of the Assembly.

Without mentioning the details, here is a real-life Assembly example of the results: "From the time I was two until I was nineteen, I was subjected to the twisted views, teachings and ways of life of the assembly. Outside of school, I spent more time there than anywhere else.  [Then at 19 came the catch-22 situation and the person left the Assembly.] I would love to just "get over it", but it just isn't that simple. The guilt and confusion that I felt while growing up in the assembly and in the years after I left that place....there was just no reason for it. Once I am convinced that the assembly system is dead forever, then maybe I'll get over it." This person has been out of the Assembly for many years. Time has not helped them get over it. 

Based on my observations over the years, such deep unresolved Assembly issues tend to result in less than optimal life-decisions and ways of coping, not to mention ongoing depression and anger. Based on my own experience at Wellspring, I believe that the clarity and freedom from guilt this person longs for could be substantially helped by Wellspring.

In the two weeks there are fifteen hours of individual counseling. Time is not wasted probing into family-of-origin issues, important as those may be. The cult-caused problems are on top of those and must be addressed first. Most counselors and therapists aren't trained for that. At Wellspring, the therapists have specific training and background in cult issues, plus specific familiarity with the Assembly. They get right to the confusing, guilt-inducing, self-rejecting, mind-bending elements of the Assembly that are specifically effecting the individual. There are another fifteen to twenty hours of group discussion, where people get a broader perspective by hearing the experiences and insights of others. There are also fifteen to twenty hours of cult education through videos and tapes, with commentary, analysis, and discussion with a trained cult expert.

What all this does is help you recontextualize your experience. You can place it in a broader perspective. You can understand the effects, and get control of them. You identify the elements of mind control that are still a part of you thinking, and begin to dismantle them with the truth. You have gotten enough distance from you emotional reactions that you can leave Wellspring and begin to make good clear-headed decisions for your life, no longer driven by guilt, anxiety, alienation, confusion, wrong assumptions, etc. You've learned how to deal with these when they come up afterward. If need be, you can continue counseling by phone after you leave.

By the end of two weeks, you feel a huge sense of relief and clarity of understanding. You've come to understand what aspects of your supposedly "Christian" experience were not christian at all, but manipulation. You've been heard and understood. Your faith has been strengthened (if that is what you wanted). You've experienced true Christian care and love from all the staff, and their robust faith has been reassuring. You are even able to leave with some sense of gratitude to God and some hope for your life.

For those people who are having trouble living their lives constructively and who are still plagued by turmoil, two weeks at Wellspring provides a solid new lease on life.

[Oscar]

Dave's comment got me thinking about something.
There are any number of understandable reasons why a person could have gotten entangled with Geftakys and the assemblies.
The question that I have personally wrestled with is why I, or any one else for that matter, remained as long as I did.
Some have argued that is was some sort of dysfunction - emotional, spiritual, social, that led to involvement in the first place.
It is certainly arguable that this is true for those who remained, myself included.
In my humble opinion, the assembly was the opportunity for expression of such dysfunction.
I suspect true recovery has to do with identifying the particular issue for each of us and by God's grace, and perhaps the help of others, dealing with it...

Verne,

Here is a somewhat different take on why we became involved and why we remained.

It comes from Steve Hassan's book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control".  Steve Hassan was  recruited by the Moonies and became a lower level leader.  His Jewish mother prayed that God would break his leg so he would have to come home....and that is exactly what happened!  He was deprogrammed...he couldn't run away in his body cast...and left the Moonies.

Later he returned to college and earned a MA in Counselling Psychology.  His books have received glowing endorsements from Psychology researchers Phillip Zimbardo and Margaret Thaler Singer, leaders in mind control studies.  He practices in Mass. and specializes in cult issues.

I will quote a couple of paragraphs from page 54...it will be in more than one post since I have to type it out.

     "Since leaving the group, I have come to believe that millions of people have actually been subjected to a mind control regimen but don't even know it.  Hardly a week goes by that I don't talk with several people who are still experiencing negative side effects from their experience of mind control.  Often, it is a great relief for them to hear that they are not alone and that their problems stem from their past involvement with such a group."

     "Perhaps the biggest problem faced by people who have left destructive cults is the disruption of their own identity.  There is a very good reason: they have lived for years inside an "artificial" identity given to them by the cult.[emphasis mine].  While cult mind control can be defined in many different ways, I believe it is best understood as a system which disrupts an individual's identity.  The identity is made up of elements such as beliefs, behavior, thought processes, and emotions that constitute a definite pattern.  Under the influence of mind control, a person's original identity, as formed by family, education, friendships, and most importantly that person's own free choices, becomes replaced with another identity, often one that he would not have chosen for himself without tremendous social pressure."

I feel that Hassan's discussion of mind control is very enlightening when we compare what he says to our experience.   He describes the process of recruitment, "unfreezing" the personality, changing the personality, and finally "refreezing" the personality which now has been reformed in the image the cult leader desired.

A good read.

Blessings,

Tom Maddux

[Joe Sperling]

I'm not very eloquent, and probably not taken very seriously due to all the joking around I did before, but I know why I joined the Assembly. It was a combination of things. In my case I had received Christ, known the great love of God and his lovingkindness, but had failed to ever join a church, and slowly drifted back into what I had done before. God began to chasten me for this, but I mistook the chastening for severity, and began to fear greatly that God was very displeased with me. The only way to "get back to God" was to work for it. I knew in my heart this was not correct--I knew the Good Shepherd, but I allowed myself to be deceived into thinking one could "gain" the love of God by "giving everything you've got" for him. I went to a Bible study meeting on campus, and then to one of the regular weekly Bible studies and saw that these people had devoted almost every day to "serving" God. Maybe God would "receive me back" into the fold if I was as dedicated as these people were.

But the greatest reason I joined the Assembly was a total misunderstanding of Biblical Truths. If I had really known what the Bible taught I would have seen immediately that this was not a place that lived off of the Grace of God, but a place based on "works performance"--based on what we could do, rather than what God had already done. I remember being so unlearned in the scriptures that I asked a brother who took me to my first worship service, Stan Case, after he had prayed in worship: "what did you mean,  the Lamb of God?"  You see, I had accepted Christ--he truly had entered my heart--I truly had known his kindness and tasted of his sweetness---but I knew nothing of the "doctrine of Grace" at all. Stan explained about the "lamb of God" and then I remembered John the Baptist saying "behold the lamb of God..." but the concept of "It it Finished" was something of which I had no understanding.

I must say I knew there was something wrong. The God being taught just didn't match the God (though I knew so little) I had "experienced" (God often allows a newly born-again person to experience his great loving kindness and mercy and comfort). A good example would be a baby of a few months who cries when out of the arms of it's mother. It cannot speak, or communicate in very many ways--but it "knows" it's mother through the experiences, comfort and love it has received at her hands. When being held by another it cries (the only way to communicate verbally it has) "You're not my mother!!" because it inherently knows the loving arms which have held it before. In a very similar way I "knew" this wasn't the same God I had "seen" and felt spiritually before. "My sheep hear my voice and they follow me." Even though I was in the Assembly for about 5 years, I could never follow George's teachings, and read  and searched through books and commentaires looking for spiritual food.

It always amazes me to think that it was actually this "uneasiness" which led me to read far more deeply into the Bible, and to read commentaries by the great Puritan authors, and books by Hannah Withall Smith "The God of all Comfort" and others which showed me that what I was crying after, yearning after, and thirsting for was the very Grace of God. I am not sure--but perhaps my whole Assembly experience was a form of God's chastisement upon me. And, if it was, then it was meant for good and not for bad. "All things work together for good to those who love God and are the called according to his purpose". I know why I joined the Assembly---and though it took many years to get past all of the mental and spiritual debris, I believe it was used to draw me to and instill in me a love for Grace, a love for Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross. I think if I had understood far more what the words "It is finished" meant, I would never have joined the Assembly in the first place. But as they say "God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform". So, I joined the Assembly--whether I was led there or I simply "joined up" is something the Lord will show me one day. But in the end it will have proved to be all for something far better and far more glorious, of that I am sure.

I've shared this personal testimony and I know that everyone has a different story. But I believe that some of the facets of what I shared are consistent with other testimonies.  1. A sincere desire to serve God, but from the wrong motive (love, but mixed with false guilt)--being led by a sense one needs to work or "serve" MORE in order for God to love and approve of you.(in other words a legalistic perspective of God as one who seeks "commitment" in order to dispense more Grace). 2. A misunderstanding of the Scriptures and of the doctrines of the Bible. 3. In many cases a very low self-esteem and a willingness to give up one's own identity (though a strong inner fight continues against this) 4. Wanting to belong to an "elite" group of people who are more dedicated than "all the rest" (in other words a "spiritual false self filled with pride taking the place of the little guy with the low self-esteem). 5. Being afraid to live or face real life---in a group your life can be lived for you--others can tell you what to do and where to go, etc.---self-responsibility is gone--and for many that is a comfort in a perverted sort of way.

I'm sure there are many more things that draw one into a cult-like atmosphere--these are just a few of the ones that I know helped draw me in.

--Joe

[brian]

some of the discussion here reminded me of this study i came across years ago when i was still in the assembly. right when i was beginning to leave, actually.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/icc/ICC276.html

this study will make more sense to those of you familiar with the MBTI. basically, it showed that in the Church of Christ people's personalities were changing over time, almost universally away from some personality type and towards others. (the Church of Christ is a very controlling fundamentalist christian organization not unlike the Assembly in many ways, but enjoying much more wide-spread success) the personality type that was most 'acceptable' was Extroverted Sensing Feeling Judging. interestingly (to me), my personality is the complete opposite of that (usually INTJ or INTP, occasionally INFJ). when people are coerced into having their personality altered, it can have effects for years. its a very destructive process. here is a quote that summarizes:

"It is not healthy to pressure a person to deny his or her true type and become a copy of someone else. Trying to change a person from one psychological type to another is like spanking a child for using the left hand. One does not produce good right-handed people that way. One produces very poor right-handed people who are very frustrated. It would be far better to help the left-handed child develop the skill of using the left hand."

everything about 'going the way of the cross' and the selfers prayer was designed to break down any personality characteristics that might threaten the total authority of the leaders. i know this sounds extreme to some people, but not everyone was treated the same. people's whose personalities were naturally more along the 'acceptable' lines didn't generally experience as much stress as those whose personalities were constantly being battered into a more 'christ-like' shape. for example, displaying independance, or an accepting empathetic outlook towards those the leaders condemned, very quickly brought down intense pressure to change. when this goes on for years, it does serious damage to people. echoing margaret's comments, anger and depression can develop even years later, as people come to grips with having their faith and desire for The Good turned against their own personality.

when i was looking up the above link, i stumbled across a church of christ forum thread where they seem to be joking around a little about this study:
http://forums.ucc.org/viewtopic.php?t=1249&highlight=mbti
doesn't their manner of interaction seem really familiar? even tho we never had ad campaigns.

wellspring sure does seem pricey tho.

[moonflower2]

wellspring sure does seem pricey tho.

You aren't kidding. 

[vernecarty]

Verne,

Here is a somewhat different take on why we became involved and why we remained.

It comes from Steve Hassan's book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control".  Steve Hassan was  recruited by the Moonies and became a lower level leader.  His Jewish mother prayed that God would break his leg so he would have to come home....and that is exactly what happened!  He was deprogrammed...he couldn't run away in his body cast...and left the Moonies.

Later he returned to college and earned a MA in Counselling Psychology.  His books have received glowing endorsements from Psychology researchers Phillip Zimbardo and Margaret Thaler Singer, leaders in mind control studies.  He practices in Mass. and specializes in cult issues.

I will quote a couple of paragraphs from page 54...it will be in more than one post since I have to type it out.

     "Since leaving the group, I have come to believe that millions of people have actually been subjected to a mind control regimen but don't even know it.  Hardly a week goes by that I don't talk with several people who are still experiencing negative side effects from their experience of mind control.  Often, it is a great relief for them to hear that they are not alone and that their problems stem from their past involvement with such a group."

     "Perhaps the biggest problem faced by people who have left destructive cults is the disruption of their own identity.  There is a very good reason: they have lived for years inside an "artificial" identity given to them by the cult.[emphasis mine].  While cult mind control can be defined in many different ways, I believe it is best understood as a system which disrupts an individual's identity.  The identity is made up of elements such as beliefs, behavior, thought processes, and emotions that constitute a definite pattern.  Under the influence of mind control, a person's original identity, as formed by family, education, friendships, and most importantly that person's own free choices, becomes replaced with another identity, often one that he would not have chosen for himself without tremendous social pressure."

I feel that Hassan's discussion of mind control is very enlightening when we compare what he says to our experience.   He describes the process of recruitment, "unfreezing" the personality, changing the personality, and finally "refreezing" the personality which now has been reformed in the image the cult leader desired.

A good read.

Blessings,

Tom Maddux

I am not sure what I am saying is so different from Hassan's observations.
I think he is right on the money about how cults attempt to alter, first our behaviour, and then eventually our very disposition.
The idea that this involves an actual personality (identity) change is really insightful and one that I had not thought of.
Is it possible that the reason more of us were not forcefully opposed to such an attempt was because it was presented to us in religious garb?
My point was nonetheless that emotionally healthy folk should naturally be resistant to this kind of manipulation and the fact that so many of us fell victim does not necessarily change that.
We do know that many folk from the outset ran from George and the assemblies as fast as the legs would permit.
It is also true that many remained only a short time before the ways of the group came up hard against the normal psychological barrier we all have to this kind of abuse, and promptly left.
Why was the threshold so high for some of us?
I clearly remember  how cognitive wheels started turning for me when an official assembly was started in Champaign and one of the most repulsive individuals I have ever met was recognized as a "responsible brother".
That particular decision finally stripped away for me the ridiculous illusion I had maintained that God had anything to do with what was going on with that bunch.
My suspicion is that we all came to such point of  reckoning and kept making the wrong choices, resulting in our remaining under the groups' influence.
While Hassan found deliverance by being physically removed from the scene, both you and I eventually came up against an internal barrier that said - "Enough!"
Is it possible that one could eventually reach a point after protracted suppression of the will in this regard that choice is no longer truly possible?!
After all that has happened, some people are still in assemblies!!!
Much food for thought....
Verne
p.s. I am trying to pick up a copy of Hassan's book and will read it. Thanks for the suggestion Tom.

[Margaret]

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO RESPONDED to this need, several of the folks who needed to go to Wellspring have been provided for!! There are still one or possibly two others who will need to go a little later. Thank you all so much for your extremely generous help!

Margaret