Don't you want to be a cult leader?

[brian]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8080331717594422405&hl=en

[vernecarty]

Anybody still confused about the nature of Geftakys and his assemblies?
Verne

[Oscar]

Thanks Brian...

That was awesome!

Tom M.

[Mark C.]

  That was great Brian!

    I know some will reject the notion that the Assembly was like what the video describes. We never had members shoot other members, force them to dance for long periods, etc., as an example.

    It is the more subtle psychological methods of control that the Assembly used that were far more effective for a wider range of personalities in holding us prisoner.  The "love bombing" (and then removal of that love), the warnings against leaving (you are leaving God's covering, etc), and the constant involvement in Assembly activities that kept us from independent thinking are the most effective means that the Assembly used.

   Who produced that video?  The website where you found it seemed to be an open forum for all kinds of cultic expression.

                                                        Thanks,  Mark C.

[brian]

    I know some will reject the notion that the Assembly was like what the video describes. We never had members shoot other members, force them to dance for long periods, etc., as an example.

glad you got a kick out of it its true, several things in the video didn't apply, and several did. they were spoofing a few major kinds of cults: religous, psychological, new age, etc. so they kind of did a shotgun spoof - no one type of cult uses all these techniques, and most of them don't go as far as killing, but the techniques described were spot-on. all the books i've read about cults talk about this same stuff, over and over. love-bombing combined with shunning, cutting people off from their past life, friends, family, us-against-them mentality, etc. all very run-of-the-mill controlling techniques, frequently used in the assembly.

i stumbled across it on google video - it was in the top 10 most viewed videos.

[outdeep]

I think the thing that made this flick so attractive is similar to when I left in 1990 and read published lists of "signs of an abusive church".  I would find myself saying, "Yeah, that one is us.  Uh huh, we did that.  Well, maybe not so much that one.  Oh yeah, definitely this one!"

What I think is intriguing is that none of this is really planned.  I don't think George or anyone else sits down and says, "OK, in order to attract members let's love bomb them and if they don't corporate, slowly withdraw that love."

For some reason in the world of dysfunction, it all comes so naturally and intuitively.

[vernecarty]

What I think is intriguing is that none of this is really planned. 

I disagree. The predation of George and Betty Geftakys was very well thought out in my opinion. Some have mentioned the interest that Betty in particular took in psychology.
When you consider the conduct of that woman, it is very difficult to entirely dismiss premeditation...
Verne

[Mark C.]

Re. the Cult thing:

Jem, you mentioned that toward the end of your involvement in the Assembly it became more cult like.  Specifically how was that so?  My recollections (1971-1990) were that we started out openly intense, and because of pressure from the outside, the tactics changed where GG would publicaly proclaim a non- cult like attitude, but in the Workers mtg. behind the scenes worked his evil system.

  As to GG and Betty having planned this all out to be only a scam to make them rich and powerful:  I would say that of all the lying these two have done they first and foremost have been lying to themselves (and continue in that state). 

  The cult leader is an interesting study; consider someone like David Koresh who was willing to die along with his followers in their compound rather then simply surrender.  If he knew he was just a scam artist he never would have been willing to do this.  The Peoples Temple founder committed suicide with his followers as well.  Joseph Smith was a "martyr" for the Mormon cause, and the list goes on.

  No, I think to understand these leaders we need to see that they really believe that they are God sent and all the perks of power are their rightful due.  The "plan", such as it works itself out, appears to serve the ends of keeping that leader in full control of the group.  GG and Betty probably really believed that the most important thing in the world was to "support this world wide ministry" and that they were truly advancing God's goals!

                                            Thank you Lord for getting us out!   Mark C.

[Joe Sperling]

I have to disagree. George and Betty were two of the most wonderful people who have ever existed ( says with monotone, and eyes wide like the former leader of Heaven's Gate). I will always remember my days there fondly, and with gratitude recall the wonderful leadership that was exhibited at all times. I was never at any time under the influence or sway of anyone (pauses to adjust aluminum foil head-covering on head). The Assembly was not a cult and I am deeply offended when one says that. Everything that George and Betty did was according to the manifold wisdom of God, and worked to the betterment of all involved (slips tape into tape player, and a droning voice begins a Seminar message). I myself am very thankful I was involved there. Good day.(stares blankly off into space).

[vernecarty]

Shame on me. Thank God I learned a valuable lesson. (only took a decade )
...it's humbling to think I was thoroughly fooled by a phony and his wife, but it's great to know that they have been exposed.

My sentiments exactly.
There those who left and have this view of that era, myself included.

There are those who left and have somehow convinced themselves that there was something redeemable about that era.

And there are those who are still there.

I suspect it is the inability to acknowledge our own weakness that permitted complicity in that horror that motivates the second group
It is an act of remarkable grace that so many of us left with our faith in God and love for Christ intact...we ought never to forget that many did not....

[vernecarty]

Re. the Cult thing:

.

  As to GG and Betty having planned this all out to be only a scam to make them rich and powerful:  I would say that of all the lying these two have done they first and foremost have been lying to themselves (and continue in that state). 

  The cult leader is an interesting study; consider someone like David Koresh who was willing to die along with his followers in their compound rather then simply surrender.  If he knew he was just a scam artist he never would have been willing to do this.  The Peoples Temple founder committed suicide with his followers as well.  Joseph Smith was a "martyr" for the Mormon cause, and the list goes on.

  No, I think to understand these leaders we need to see that they really believe that they are God sent and all the perks of power are their rightful due.  The "plan", such as it works itself out, appears to serve the ends of keeping that leader in full control of the group.  GG and Betty probably really believed that the most important thing in the world was to "support this world wide ministry" and that they were truly advancing God's goals!

                                            Thank you Lord for getting us out!   Mark C.

the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

This verse reminds me that people can do horrific things under the delusion that they are doing God's work.
It is not at all unusual for false techers to have a period of their history where they appear fairly normal to the casual eye.
Jim Jones was known for the effective humanitarian work he did which drew many people to him.
What distinguishes the false teacher is a knowing rejection of truth.

Peter says that they privily bring in damnable heresies.

From that point of view, their departure and descent into sin and corruption has a cognitive aspect. George's biography certainly bears this out.
I think once a man crosses a certain line, God gives him up to dark forces and in that sense, others are doing the "planning"...
This is what happened to Judas...
Verne