More Detail Please!

[David Mauldin]

hey

[4Him]

I'm sorry David but I can't agree that we need more details.  Suffice it to say the details warranted the extreme measure of excommunication.  Tho' that step has in the past been lightly exercised, I think this time it was very solemnly considered.

[Kay]

Tim,
I agree with you. These are sad days indeed.
Let's all go forward.....................
'His compassions fail not. They are new every morning; great is Thy faithfulness.' Lamentations 3: 22 -23

[Curious]

I agree with Tim and Terri...having the details is not going to change the situation and could in fact make it worse... unless he repents George is going to have to face up to these sins before the Lord...I for one am praying for his repentance...and I don't want to know the details...

[4Him]

AMEN! Teri and Nancy B.

[Kimberley Tobin]

David,  I understand your desire to want to know more details.  That is in all of us.  But when you look at how we are to deal with one another in the scriptures, that is not what we are to do.  If you had been the brother who had offended, would you want your dirty laundry (no matter how bad it was) to be aired before the Lord's people?  I would think not.  It is bad enough that it has to be said at all in the manner it was.  Suffice it to say, that the evidence that was presented was strong enough for the brothers to excommuncite George and for them to step down from their leadership positions.  That says enough!  

For those men who are still in the position of trying to decide whether to align themselves with George or to take similar steps as the men in Fullerton, read your bibles men.  Each step of church discipline has been taken.  Matthew 18 has been followed.  What did Paul tell the Corinthian church with the brother who was in the same offense?  When the steps of Matthew 18 have been taken and such a one refuses to submit to the church, the next step is excommunication and to warn the church not to have anything to do with such a one, except he repent.  The men of Fullerton (with whom you have labored with for years and years-some of you decades-and respected) have taken these steps.  What is there for you to consider?  Clear yourselves in this matter.  Show the sheep in your flocks that you are meek and humble men of God who are willing to stand with your brethren in this matter (you don't need to know the nitty gritty details) and step down from your leardership positions (asking the sheep if that is what they want is ridiculous-we've never been able to take a stand like that in this place and you know that.)

Kimberley

[karensanford]

For the record, I find that the information given is more than enough to provide TOO MUCH information on George's activities.

However, it's a little silly for five people to jump in and tell David that we don't go into details like that.  This entire website is filled with dirty laundry, or at least it was before the "clean sweep".  Stories have been told, details divulged, laundry aired.  If details of George's transgressions WERE being made available, it would not be out of step with that which has already been presented here online.

That said...PLEASE!! Spare us the details.  

[Rachel]

I can understand David's question.  After all these are men who are now admitting to lieing about sins in the past and we are to take their word for it?  At the same time, there is another side, the women who came forward to talk about what happen.  We do not know to what degree they were forced or victimized in the situation.  If they wish to come forward with their stories they should be allowed to.  

However, I hope that in all of this, we will not assume that we know the worst and that their are no more victims out there, possibly victimized by others in leadership.  I would hope all victims of abuse would come forward with their stories so that we could know a full clearing in the matter of abuses has occurred.  I hope that the excommunication of George will not be looked at as a closing the book on this matter.  Remember, a little leaven, leavens the whole lump.  It would be tragic if after all that everyone is going through right now, other sins and abuses were "lost in the shuffle" so to speak and remained hidden only to corrupt whatever may come out of this time.

[ptemplin7]

This is a hard question to determine what would be proper.

I think the letter was a bit vague. Kind of hard to pray for clear repentance for the person without the corect information.

Was it only this issue that he was excommunicated for or was it a larger issue as well?

Glad to hear that the leaders in Fullerton finally stepped up to the plate and acted. Also, its good to hear that they all resigned. Let God's Spirit move in his people to show the direction to go.

Recommened reading if you haven't is Gene Edwards book "When the Church was led only by Laymen".  This pamphlet sets out some great spiritual truths.  Available from Seedsowers.com.

Looking for the blessed hope of forgivness and reconciliation, Paris

PS Jan 25 Edited to remove some hearsay that was better left unsaid...

[Curious]

Dave, Karen, et al...
I'm sorry if you feel like the FOUR people who posted shortly after yours were jumping on you.  That was not my intention...I just happened to get online at that time and didn't even look to see what time you had posted.  Please forgive me if I seemed to be "jumping in" when I shouldn't have been! (And for the record I wasn't telling anyone "we don't go into details like that"...I was simply sharing my thoughts on the subject)
I can understand your reasons for wanting more details and I'm glad that we have the liberty to have varying opinions even on major issues such as this...I can trust God to work out the details...and I do hope that if there are any others who have been hurt  that they will be able to find release and healing...this website and BB have been a great blessing and I hope that it continues as such.
Lord bless you...
Nancy

[Arthur]

I've always wondered, how exactly does a church hand someone over to Satan?

[Peacefulg]

Hi all, just want to make a point about the judgement we see take place in Corinth, this point was brought to me by another dear brother.

If you take the hole passage in context, Paul directly points out what the sin was I Cor 5:1.

Now having said that you all can debate as to what should be done.  I am content to know what we already know for now.

Lord Bless,
G

[ptemplin7]

Amen Rudy,

I would add that which was preached in the Assemblies and I still whole-heartedly believe: Believers should conduct themselves in a manner that avoids all appearances of evil. This must especially true for shepherds that God has approited.

There should be no room for an accusation. I like Billy Grahams condition that he has never and will never be in the same room alone with a woman that is not his wife. Simply because he NEVER wanted there to be any possible accusation of impropriety.

May we all live lives like that!

[David Mauldin]

  Where is this going?  All I want is If George committed adultery "within the last 20 years" then say so.  If not then say what he did. Think about it.  When is this dysfunction going to end?  If they are going to start behaving like a healthy church then do it now!  Imagine if you were disciplined for having a sister give you a massage.  Would you appreciate it being worded as such?   Am I trying to defend George? Yes isint this what righteousness is all about? I dont think he committed adultry because they would have said so right out in the open. Instead they do what they have always done. Infer!In short NO I do not trust the "Leading Brothers"  who mind you have lied covered up and unfairly malined people  for the past 33 years!

[Arthur]

Ah, so David you are saying that the possibility exists that the leadership is using George as a scapegoat to cover up their own sin just as they have being doing for, what, 30 years?  Hmm...just maybe you have a point there.  You know, when I read about George being excommunicated, I thought that wow, this is finally it and there must be true repentence in Fullerton among the leaders.  But now that you mention it, I could totally see the scenario where they jetison George like a bad warp core and then continue on their merry assembly trek pretending nothing happened and...pretending that they are not partakers in his guilt.  The question is, and here is at least part of the proof in the pudding: Are they stepping down from leadership?"  I don't know for sure because I'm not there.

Arthur