The Assembly experience: Were there any good things you DID?

[Flora]

On October 15th, Margaret asked: “What aspects of  your Assembly experience assure you that God was still working in your life? Or do we have to consider the years we spent there as exclusively a negative education? … I am wondering how you all have evaluated your heartfelt "service for the Lord" in the Assembly.  I honestly don't know at this point. I am hoping that a discussion about this might shed some light for all of us.”

In response, I want to list a few of the many things that I learned, implemented, and took away with me when I left.

1) Some advice I got from both George and Betty on separate occasions was this: “As Christians that want to please our Saviour, we need to learn to respond to an ungodly thing (word, behaviour, situation, etc,) in a godly way”.

In the midst of oppression, and emotional abuse, I learned to pray, “Lord, help me keep my emotions under Your control; and teach me how to respond to this situation in a way that honours You.” This is still my prayer, today, when I find myself faced with an ungodly situation.

2) During one of the times of intense oppression, I really had to fight hate. I knew God’s way was love, so I poured out my soul to Him. As I spent time in prayer, God opened my eyes of understanding to His love at Calvary. As they were crucifying our Saviour, we never read that they had to pry His fingers open, so that they could put the nails in His hands. In love, He willingly opened His hands to receive the nails of Calvary. In the face of hate, He showed love – both His hands and His heart were open in love to those who hated Him. I prayed: “Lord, teach me to keep my heart open in love, no matter how I’m treated. Help me to never harden my heart against others.” In John, we are reminded that they will know we are Christians by our love. In other words, the world will identify us as Christians, because we love those that we would not naturally be able to love.

It is 22 years since God taught me that lesson. Experience has taught me that this kind of love is only cultivated each time we are confronted with callousness and we make an active choice to demonstrate God’s love. Today, I still find myself facing these same challenges and choices, because we live in a sin-sick world.

3) In the Assembly, under oppression, I learned to find God as my refuge. I learned to anchor my soul in what God said to my heart, rather than in what the leadership and those in authority said to me. As a result, I went from being a timid, shy individual, to a person who was confident and out spoken. This has had a lasting effect on my personality.

4) Under oppression, I learned to stand firm and not let them bully or intimidate me. When counsel or direction was given that contradicted Sunday ministry or Chapter Summary ministry, I learned to repeat the ministry back to the leading brothers and ask them to explain the contradiction. I’m sure they breathed a sigh of relief when I left.

5) In the assembly, I overcame my fear of going witnessing. I developed a variety of angles from which to share the gospel, learning to use many different passages of scripture to launch the gospel story. I learned and put into practice different methods of sharing the gospel, including implementing the one-minute gospel.

6) In the assembly, I learned the value of worship. In the midst of trials, the burden is lifted or made much lighter by focusing on the characteristics and nature of our God. Now, when my health suffers a set back or we are struggling with some other kind of trial, my husband and I will spend time singing hymns, or listening to a CD of hymns of worship. We derive great benefit from this exercise.

Well, the list goes on. Let’s take up Margaret’s question and focus on the things we learned and the things we did that were good. Remember that in spite of the way this organization oppressed, controlled and abused, God’s Word was still preached. When God’s Word goes forth, it does not return void without accomplishing God’s purpose.

Lord bless,
Flora

[Oscar]

Flora,

Thank you for your contribution to this thread.  This is the kind of thing I had in mind when I started the "Good things you learned" thread.

I was, I must confess, shocked at the vehemence of the objections to the idea.

Blessings,

Tom Maddux

[Marcia M]

Hi Flora 

You the first to mentor me when I got saved, and a good friend.

Your faith is an inpsiration to me.

All good eh??

In the GA system the gospel was preached, and most had a zeal for God which often got mistaken for zeal for GA.

Regards,
Marcia M

[Christine]

Flora,

Thank You for your contribution.
I read your story on Margaret's site and also your post here. I can say that my perspective has changed.

Thanks

[Oscar]

Joe,

Ai Chihuahua!!

I am not allowed to talk about anything good that I learned or did during my assembly years unless I tell the whole story of all the slights, hurts, abuses, insults, embarrassments, illnesses, sacrifices and whatever else that happened to me?

I don't have enough time to write it, and you don't have enough time, and probably not enough interest either, to read it.

During my assembly years I learned a whole lot about preaching the gospel to people.  I am GLAD I did.  I am not saying I couldn't have learned it anywhere else, but I have never had such opportunities since leaving.

One night I was asked to preach at the tent campaign at the Huntington Beach pier.  The tent was packed and the sides were rolled up.  People were standing several deep all the way around the three open sides.  There were probably over 100 curious onlookers who stayed and listened all the way through the meeting.

I considered it a privilege to preach the gospel that night, and I did it with a heartfelt desire to preach the saving message of Christ to needy men and women.  I wanted to serve my Lord with all my heart, and I endeavored to do so.  I did not do it for GG or because he wanted it done. I wanted to do it for Christ!

On another night I was asked to preach at the Union Rescue Mission.  I had never seen such a large group of sin-sick, sin-ruined people.  I had a powerful sense of a burden of grief and sorrow for those men and women. I asked Don Evans to go over in a corner to pray with me. I broke down and wept before God, beseeching him to enable me to preach the gospel clearly and powerfully. I had never had that experience before. I am not inclined to public weeping.

I believe that that burden came from God.  I also believe that God powerfully answered that prayer.  The whole team spoke of a sense of God's presence at that meeting.  I had great liberty for that 10 minute gospel message, and some young men came forward to recieve Christ.  The director told me that the meeting was "wonderful".

Those experiences happened because George Geftakys taught young people to overcome  their fears and boldly preach the gospel.  Since those years I have had conversations with missionaries and college pastors that don't believe that young people can do things like that!!!

Yes, the bad stuff is true too.  There were always problems, and they got worse as time went along.  I just don't feel that I have to recount all the bad stuff just because I want to say something good about my assembly experience.

Blessings,
Tom Maddux

[Explorer]

Joe,

The interesting thing is, I agree with what Tom was saying and didn't have a problem with his original post. All he seemed to be saying to me was, state what the reality was of what happened there. Seemed like a very objective question to me. Not, what is your opinion of the assembly, but putting that aside, take an objective look. I don't think you have to worry about Tom sending out advertisements trying to start a new assembly somewhere. At least not from what I have read from him in the past.

I wasn't threatened by any emotional response either. In fact his response didn't strike me that way. It seemed rather objective. But you seem to be reacting a little on the intense side to me. I trust it is not an emotional reaction.

In regard to "what gospel?", come on Joe. What gospel did you preach when you went door to door? No one got saved? Are you comparing that to the JW message, or were you taking a shot?

Now, once again, to you and Mark, there have been a number of light entreaties that you may be reacting a little harshly, but I don't really see any response to that. Of course, you don't have to, but once again I would ask, is that maybe part of the reason why people aren't posting here? I can say that it is not very inviting.

[Joe Sperling]

Explorer---

Of course not. I'm not saying the basic gospel message cannot lead to someone's
salvation. But it is interesting to note how few the Lord allowed to be saved under
that ministry though. Tom said that "George Geftakys taught young people to overcome
their fear and preach the Gospel". If you're fine with that Explorer, great. I just happen
to believe (my opinion) that the "Gospel" that George was ultimately preaching was "another
gospel"--take that for what it's worth. If you don't agree, that's fine.

It's funny---every time one tries to "argue their point" the threat of "driving away posters" always appears:

but once again I would ask, is that maybe part of the reason why people aren't posting here? I can say that it is not very inviting. (from your post below)     

Are you posting here? It appears to be the case. Check some other boards--with all the "hunky-dory--everything is great" posts going on there they should be "packed with posters" right?  Yeah--sure they are, right.   But I get the message.  I officially back off for good on this-- I replied because Tom addressed me at the start of his post---but I have to disagree with you---I don't think Tom's last post was "objective" at all. Better not say much more----it's not very "inviting", and might drive more posters away.

I did learn to make Swedish Meatballs in the Assembly preparing the nightly dinners for the next evening though. That was a good thing. I prepared some the other evening for my girlfriend, from an old "Assembly recipe". After eating them she said "I'm not sure why, but I have the strangest desire to go attend a meeting somewhere for a few hours".

I have withdrawn my response to Tom. I have decided to speak on other subjects. Please see "COAT LINT" on the General Mayhem thread.

[outdeep]

On another night I was asked to preach at the Union Rescue Mission.  I had never seen such a large group of sin-sick, sin-ruined people.  I had a powerful sense of a burden of grief and sorrow for those men and women. I asked Don Evans to go over in a corner to pray with me. I broke down and wept before God, beseeching him to enable me to preach the gospel clearly and powerfully. I had never had that experience before. I am not inclined to public weeping.

I believe that that burden came from God.  I also believe that God powerfully answered that prayer.  The whole team spoke of a sense of God's presence at that meeting.  I had great liberty for that 10 minute gospel message, and some young men came forward to recieve Christ.  The director told me that the meeting was "wonderful".

Those experiences happened because George Geftakys taught young people to overcome  their fears and boldly preach the gospel.  Since those years I have had conversations with missionaries and college pastors that don't believe that young people can do things like that!!!

Tom, I remember a similar experience at the Union Rescue Mission.  I had a rare opportunity to preach and I chose the man by the pool in John as my text.  I wasn't comfortable with the alter call because we generally didn't do that but it was sort of a requirement.  At the end of my preaching I gave an invitation and was agast to find a growing group of men in front of me.  This old black pastor was off to the side saying ,"keep bring'n 'im in.  keep bring'n 'im in".  We all went back and the counseling room was over crowded.

To my surprise, I have several speaking engagements this next two weeks - teach at Celebrate Recovery, devotional at men's Bible study, testimony/break-out seminar at the C&MA South-Atlantic district men's retreat, devotional at Samaritan's Purse.  It's not that I am an especially good speaker or a competent Bible teacher.  It's just that I learned in the Assembly how to get up in front of a group of people and give a word that is meant to encourage others.

[Oscar]

Joe,

You said:

Tom said that "George Geftakys taught young people to overcome
their fear and preach the Gospel". If you're fine with that Explorer, great. I just happen
to believe (my opinion) that the "Gospel" that George was ultimately preaching was "another
gospel"--take that for what it's worth. If you don't agree, that's fine.

The gospel I preached during my assembly days was the same gospel that brought me to Christ 46 years ago.  Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. He was buried and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures.  Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

That is what I preached then, its also what I preach now.

Joe, when I met GG I was so introverted and shy that I almost never spoke of Christ to strangers.  Before the beginning of the assembly George urged me to begin sharing the gospel.  My first attempt was to pass out tracts on the streets of Canoga Park back in 1970.  It was so hard for me that I built up enough tension in my body to cause my very first migrain headache!

Later on, urged by George, I had many experiences of sharing the gospel and publicly proclaiming Christ.  Some were positive.  Some were not. Some were ridiculous.  I never reached a point where it was easy for me.  But I did get to the place where I could present the gospel clearly in a number of circumstances to a wide variety of people.

In addition, Joe, I was able to help many others overcome their shyness and share Christ.

You and Mark seem to feel that if anything positive is said about the assembly or GG it will encourage those who have not repented of their legalism and still carry many assembly beliefs in their hearts to persist.  I doubt if I am that persuasive.  If all the things that have been said on Assembly Reflections and this board haven't changed their minds, nothing I have to say will make any difference.

BTW, George taught me many things about preaching that I still believe and practice.  More on that later.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

[Joe Sperling]

Tom---

Please see my "allegory" on the "Tell the whole story" thread. I am attempting to show what I
have been trying to say all along. Certain questions can be asked that may have a far different affect on some people than others. What I experienced in the Assy, combined with the many "testimonies" I have heard concerning the abuse suffered by others, make it extremely difficult to deal with the posts you received in response to your original question. As I mentioned before, these had the effect of "white-washing the past" by using your question as a springboard to do so. Again, If you read the allegory, and disagree, I fully understand, as it is based on your posting of the question originally. I
hope maybe it shows what I have been trying to convey. Hope there are no hard feelings.

--Joe

[Margaret]

It's interesting to note that the few good things people have mentioned were all in circumstances not under the direct control of Assembly leadership--retirement home outreach (GG could care less about that, and even Betty didn't attempt to make it a "training" thing), Gospel preaching, witnessing, mentoring, learning spiritual lessons. These all had eternal implications, either for others or oneself. It seems to me that a closer analogy to abusive marriages would be the precious and wonderful children that came out of them, rather than skills learned.

Margaret

[Joe Sperling]

It seems to me that a closer analogy to abusive marriages would be the precious and wonderful children that came out of them, rather than skills learned.

Margaret----

Not sure if you are referring to the allegory I posted when you refer to an "analogy". I went back and redefined it on another post to the same thread, to show exactly what the allegory is supposed to represent. If that's not the case, please ignore this.

--Joe

[Margaret]

Thanks to you all, I see the answer to my original question about the value of things we did, at least as it pertains to myself. This is what I wrote Joe in a private email:

"I need to apologize to you for posing my question on the bb about "good things we DID". Having been a believer for years before meeting George, the doctrinal stuff didn't affect me the same as it has many others. And I was sheltered from being on the receiving end of most of the abuse, brow-beating and intimadation. The result is that I was grossly lacking in sensitivity in posting that question. I am sorry from the bottom of my heart. You and Mark and others have opened my eyes. Some Assembly folks were effectively used by God for the benefit of others, mainly outside the Assembly, like Juvenile Hall, the Rescue Mission, retirement homes, etc. But for myself, my involvement was entirely within the framework of the Assembly and therefore was completely tainted, not necessariy by my motives, but by the framework we were operating in. I see now that if any good will ever be shown to have come of any of it, it will be because of what happens now, not then. I think of this every Sunday in the public confession of sin in our church--'Where we thought we were well, we are sick in soul...' "

[trac4yt]

But for myself, my involvement was entirely within the framework of the Assembly and therefore was completely tainted, not necessariy by my motives

As you might expect, I am personally wrestling with this question. So far I haven't found anything I did that wasn't tainted in some way, and yet in some cases God seemed to bring some good out of something.

Marg,

"taint"?
Is this something "poured" out in the "taint" department?  An 80/20 mix?
Does it come in a spray?
Is it, "Living Water" based?
Is there a 30 year warranty?
Can one get this with an "untaintable" life-time guarantee?

Most importantly, does it wash off?
Have you found this to be so?

 

P.S.  Can a "tainting" war be averted?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYCOyaIUCSo
 

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. (Eph 6:10-11)

[Mark C.]

 Margaret, (and other readers)

  Thank you so much for your gracious post that reflects a willingness to consider what Joe explained in his own Assembly experience (and many others as well).  It has been a difficult subject to discuss, especially when there have been those that have taken the question and attempted to unjustly suggest that the group had a lot that God approved of--- and that can be used in our lives with God now as a result.  I know that you never intended such an implication in the asking of your question.

  As Paul said to the Galatians, "who hath bewitched you?" when these believers wanted to mix (80/20?) into the Gospel the kind of teaching that the Assm. promoted.  The worse kind of tainting, though, came when that bad teaching was combined with abusive control over the lives of the members; this made for a very toxic mix!

  In the search for "good things", (in trying to make sense of our lives with God now) we can look back, within ourselves, or for that church out there somewhere where God will meet us, and thus discover a life without any taint at all.  However, I have not had much success with that, as there is very little to be found that doesn't bear sin's stain.

  This fact seems to support the oft repeated adage of "all churches have problems" (are tainted), and "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven", and this has been misused to support the notion that we should just give up and accept a certain percentage of tainting and move on "(ignore the negative and accentuate the positive").  While we will always have failings, and should be forgiving of others who sin against us, these truths must be accompanied with the practice of honest agreement of what those problems are and a willingness to find reconciliation with those offended ("leave your gift at the altar, etc.").

  The Assm., and many of it's current supporters, have a strong resistance to taking responsibility for their actions and don't see any need for reconciliation.  You have in the sweet spirit of Christ, via your post Margaret, demonstrated exactly what that confession and reconciliation looks like.  The story of Joseph and his brethren (something I wrote about in the past) demonstrates the same process of taking those that wronged their brother and how God brought this family to recovery.  The strange harshness of Joseph was necessary to awaken the conscience of the abusers and take them from denial to joyful reconciliation!

  The above means of recovery is sidestepped if we deny, minimize, excuse, or otherwise refuse to consider the facts of what kind of group we were in, and what our failings were while there.  Those encouraging us to avoid these needed steps (while quoting different proof texts) are hindering God's purposes as his grace can only heal where there is honest evaluation and confession re. that "tainting."

  God is very good and the riches of his goodness are without any taint at all, but we must see our own need before we will ask, "Sir, give me that water---"  An evil conscience that denies the truth will not feel the joy of that living water.

                                                           God Bless,  Mark C.