Hard To Deal With.

[jesusfreak]

Never realizing the more subtle abuse that has filled their minds and hearts with false doctrine.

I believe that there were base notes based for this discussion, but nothing I have yet seen has addressed this.  Do you mind either starting one with what you see in this, or sending me a private message about it?

[dsjogren]

Hi, gang, especially Brad,

It only means that the LOCAL assemblies in this region have learned enough from their mistakes to loosen the reigns on their children enough that the children can say, after viewing some of the posts concerning the horrific abuses of Assembly leaders, "What? That's not the way it is! We never saw anything like that!"

The problem is they firmly believe that since they have not personally experienced the life altering spiritual abuse of the Assembly doctrine, that therefore it does not exist. Part of the problem is they cannot know if they have experienced spirtual abuse because they have no other experience on which to base their experience!

They have no understanding that there are inherent flaws in the doctrine of the Assembly, in the Assembly's patterns of worship or in the Assembly's leadership structure.

If anyone who reads this post takes any one thought out of it, please take this: The Assembly pattern/docrine is designed/pre-conceived/tailored so that one man or a small group of leaders can spirtually dominate large numbers of well-intentioned believers.

This domination can manifest itself in terrible abuses such as have been proven to occur in Fullerton and San Luis Obispo, OR it can be much more subtle, demanding labor for inheritance, legalism, causing humiliation, USURPING CHRIST"S AUTHORITY IN A MAN'S LIFE.

Scott I really like what you said and being a current AK I can tell you you have a few things right.  However, contrary to your spiel that assembly kids reject the things that may have happened in past years I believe to be false.  In fact most of the teenagers I think have a lot of questions about how things are done and why. I know I do.  Certainly the assemblies have changed and I believe that many of the things that were done way back certainly would not happen today. Obviously this is not fully true just look at all that has been uncovered recently.    However, I do believe that the assemblies are changing and for the better. I don't know if I will be involved in this ministry in the following years, depend on how God guides me but I think a lot of people and especially those that read this site finding that many things about the assemblies that we were taught to ignore were true. That does not mean we blow them off!!! Just wanted to clarify that.  Oh yeah,   you are right about how this ministry was set up so that a select few or one could run it however that has come to an end.  Believe me. Lord bless and thanks for the light.

Daniel Sjogren

[Scott McCumber]

Hi, Daniel,

That was an excellent response. I will also admit that since posting that I have had a few more interchanges with some current AKs and have been encuraged.

I think there has been a subtle shift in attitudes on both sides of this issue.

Don't forget though, that these changes you speak of are not ministry-wide. They are in local gatherings.

Hope to hear more from you in the future!

Scott

[dsjogren]

great point and another undeniable one. i would love to say all the assemblies are headed in the right direction but they aren't.  

[Scott McCumber]

Never realizing the more subtle abuse that has filled their minds and hearts with false doctrine.

I believe that there were base notes based for this discussion, but nothing I have yet seen has addressed this.  Do you mind either starting one with what you see in this, or sending me a private message about it?

Hey, Luke,

I didn't see this post until now and yes I will respond. But not tonight. Think I need a break (not necessarily six weeks, though )!

[jesusfreak]

Hey, Luke,

I didn't see this post until now and yes I will respond. But not tonight. Think I need a break (not necessarily six weeks, though )!

sweet

[editor]

Dear AK's

Each of our five kids were born in the Assembly, and Suzie and I were very "faithful," with mat training and no-fussing.  We were a front-row-no-take-kids-out-or-meeting family.  (even though we sat in the third row, more seats there)

I noticed, the year before we left, when our oldest was 9, that he was starting to lose the sparkle in his eye.  I was VERY worried that he would turn out like all the leaders' first born kids, and leave the Lord.

As a parent, I see that child-training, as we learned it from Betty, David, etc.  essentially kept the children from coming to Jesus.  They couldn't be kids, and the Jesus we made them emulate was a meticulous, austere God, who didn't want kids making noise, and certainly didn't want them on His lap.  (In meetings anyway,  which was where He was present.  "The Lord's going to be there children!)

The single best thing that could happen, in any of the groups that do continue to exist in a few months, would be to have a seperate children's Junior High and Highschool ministry, with age relevant teaching and worship.

Honestly, I don't know how this could happen, because in order to staff it, there would be only a few people in the "main" meeting.

The other alternative is to do Assembly style Sundays and then encourage the kids to get involved in a local evangelical church with a right-on youth group.

Brent

[Nate Dogg]

Hey Brad,
 
   I'm a Mathews kid-- the oldest, Nate. Your post and others on this BB are helpful in coming to some understanding of where AK's are spiritually and mentally and how they got that way. I left when I was 18, wrote my parents a letter actually saying that the assembly's spiritual deadness, its theology of marginalizing women as merely "man supporters", and its failure to be engaged with the works of mercy and justice were my reasons were leaving. I know now that I was running from it, too. But I didn't get "worldly" (another problematic assembly euphenism, does this mean participating in things "the world does? 2/3 of the world lives on the bare edges of poverty while America consumes 85% of the world's resources. Is that worldly? Is driving a car worldly? Certainly it could be seen as an affront to God since it directly destroys His creation which we were given stewardship over. but I digress) Anyway, I went and built houses with Habitat For Humanity (a Christian organization) and worked at an urban Christian intentional community called The Open Door. I know my parents took a lot of heat for this, but continued to support me, as they saw, that however theologically different (I would probably fall under the hated term "liberal" I was from them, I was honestly trying to do the work of God. I encourage Ak's to read. Not books on spiritual devotion or cultivating the inner life. We have far too much spirituality/lords will/Gods on the throne. We are not saved by works I know, but an embodiment of christ's life without concrete action and acts of sacricial love and justice is hollow. Read the writings of Dr. King-- here was a man of deep religious and moral conviction who believed that his theology had relevance to the political and social situation of an oppressed people. Read Dorothy Day and the founding of the Catholic Worker houses. Read a book called God's Long Summer by Charles Marsh. I cant reccomend it enough. Read Rich Christians In An Age of Hunger by Ron Sider. He makes the good point that if we are willing to take the Bible's teachings about headcoverings, the Trinity, and other major and minor points of faith, then we must acknowledge that throughout scripture God talks of bringing down the rich and exalting the poor and oppressed (read the Magnificat-- thats a revelation!)
  So, let the theological corrections begin. Thank you for this forum and i love those of you who are trying to come (with me) to some understanding of how we got "bamboozled".

                                   peace and blessings,
                                                 NAte

[Ann Vanasse]

Dear Nate,
Yeah!  One of the best books I have ever read is, "Harriet Tubman, the Moses of Her People"  by, Sarah Bradford.  Harriet Tubman lived everyday for someone else.  She loved Jesus and she couldn't read a word of the bible.    

love,
Auntie Ann from kansas

[brad]

Nate,

I'm encouraged to hear of your practical and "real" lifestyle. Sounds like GOD has already won your heart and your hands for him...there is no limit to the possibilities for your life when it is completely subject to the Cross of Christ.

Well done and God bless bro...

Peace.

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings Nate:
Was it you that mentioned Dorothy Day, CWM, etc?
In case you are not already aware of them Plough Publishing has some of her writings available as well as articles and excerpts from similar writers (incl. Civil Rights folks) in their mag- the Plough. Also, have you heard of Toyohiko Kagawa? Anyway, thought it might interest you.
Sebastian Andrew

[psalm51]

Sebastian,
We've been getting the Plough newsletter/catalog for a few years. Unfortunately, they are no longer publishing it. Money problems, I think.
Too bad.
Pat