St. Louis

[freebird]

Vince,

You wrote:
"this nonsense of "inheriting the kingdom" being some conditional blessing. This is the rotten core of the "Geftakys Ministry" lie. If that not be banished, put up another straw man in George's place, and the assembly will continue to rot in its legalism."


This is the workshop of spiritual abuse!  Once a simple believer took hold of that, they were sucked onto a godless treadmill with no slowing down.  Yes there are rewards for faithfulness, but scaring folks with the loss of inheritance is another story (bad story).  I Cor 3 speaks of the believers "works" being judged.  Are we saved by works?  No!  Our works will be judged as to whether they are "in Christ" or of the "flesh".  Fleshly works will burn and the works done "in Christ" will remain, acompanied with reward.  But our inheritance is secured!  We have the downpayment of the Holy Spirit!  And Abraham received the inheritance by promise (so will we!)!  Folks don't want to discuss doctrine but it is as important as repentance.  How else will anyone know what to repent of??  It is easy to say "I repent."   Not as easy to say "I repent for hurting you".  I guess it is even harder to say "I repent for using the Scripture to get you to do the will of men."  That is a hard pill to swallow, but that is reality!

Vince, you are correct!
Garth

[Kimberley Tobin]

Michelle,

I would like to private message you, but since you signed on only as a guest, this is impossible.  I have been out of the assembly for 3+ months.

I would like to help you.

Private message me.

Kimberley

[Roger Hommes]

Garth, I say yes to what you say about the workshop, but with some allowance for individual exceptions.  I did go for the conditional inheritance teaching, but I wasn't sucked onto the treadmill with no slowing down.  It was more like around 1986 I started to see some things that kept me from getting on it.  (Specifically, I saw the lust for control and I got a brief but painfully clear look at George's arrogance.)  Of course, this means that I wasn't really "on board", "fully committed to what the Lord wants to do in this place", a straggler.  Others would sometimes ask me, "Why aren't you running?"  My response would be, "Where are you going?"  (I was just enjoying the breeze.)  
I am grateful for my time in the assembly.  I'm a little different from most posters in that I left the assembly without ever really leaving; I just moved to Dallas for other pursuits.  (That was an interesting story in itself.)  But my self-imposed distance even while in the system kept me from much of the abuse of power under which others have suffered.  Most of my grieving in all of this is on behalf of others who were crushed.  And I've cried for some.  
I can't express how deeply I long for HONESTY and genuine repentance on behalf of the offenders, but I think Danny Edwards' experience yesterday makes it clear that this is not a safe forum for LBs to apologize.  If the LBs know that tar and feathers await them here, they won't come.  I would entreat ALL involved here to show mercy and patience.  Many of the offenders are just beginning to realize their crimes against God's people.  Yes, many throughout the various assemblies, especially in CA, are worthy of a beating.  Let's be outraged, but let's keep our outrage in check lest we be found like the servant in Matthew 18.  Yes, we are owed a debt, but what debt did we owe our Father?  We need to be inviting them to confess and assuring them that we won't bite them when they do.  

[freebird]

Roger,

I agree somewhat.  

I do regret, however that this entire BB has become just like the lodges.  No liberty to speak the truth or your mind.  

Why must my every statement be challenged?

I will very soon quit posting as this whole thing is becoming a farce.

Garth

[Bob Sturnfield]

I can't express how deeply I long for HONESTY and genuine repentance on behalf of the offenders, but I think Danny Edwards' experience yesterday makes it clear that this is not a safe forum for LBs to apologize.  If the LBs know that tar and feathers await them here, they won't come.  I would entreat ALL involved here to show mercy and patience.  Many of the offenders are just beginning to realize their crimes against God's people.  Yes, many throughout the various assemblies, especially in CA, are worthy of a beating.  Let's be outraged, but let's keep our outrage in check lest we be found like the servant in Matthew 18.  Yes, we are owed a debt, but what debt did we owe our Father?  We need to be inviting them to confess and assuring them that we won't bite them when they do.  

I know I also felt that the attacks would make it harder for other brethren to come forward. Like why are they attacking the one that is repenting rather than those that are silent?

One problem with posting as "guest" is that no one can "go and tell him his fault between you and him alone".

If LB's desires to use this forum to help "realize their crimes against God's people", they should register with or without hiding their e-mail address.  They can then get "private posts" automatically forwarded to the e-mail address that they entered.

To have your IM (people posting privately to you on ga.com) automatically forwarded to your e-mail, so you will know if someone is trying to contact you without having to check the bb:
 
Simply log into the bb, click the "you have xxx messages" at the top of the page. This brings up your "In Box"
 
Next click "preferences" at the top of the in box.  This brings up the Ignore List
 
Change Notify by email to "yes" and click "Save Preferences"
 
All private posts will be automatically e-mailed to the address you provided


2 Corinthians 8:21  providing honorable things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.

[freebird]

St. Louis....Gateway to the West (Fullerton?)

[Roger Hommes]

The stated goal of this website is to expose darkness.  It was intended as an outreach to those in bondage (shepherd or sheep).  This includes a goal of putting an end to the Geftakian regime's pattern of abusing the weak and the vulnerable.  

Rather than ending the pattern of abuse, shall we, the peasantry, instead seize the opportunity to spit upon the gentry as they're paraded past us?  Do we demand instant and full proof of complete restitution for 30 years of bad doctrine and abuse of power?  Might we attempt some pretense of compassion for the fallen taskmaster who comes crawling into the website acknowledging his sin?  

Danny made a respectable attempt at apologizing; the response was gladiatorial.  Of course, he still has a lot to learn, and his wording was evidence that old habits die hard.  HE'S MAKING A START.  This whole empire has been cancerous for a long time.  Some found out long ago.  Some have just days ago received the terminal diagnosis.  Some are still in denial.  None are more eaten up by this cancer than those in leadership.  But besides the bolus of truth that was shot down their throats last Sunday, they're going to need on-going treatment.  Now, I'm all for juicing, but let's not be so eager to administer the full Gerson on 'em.  

It seems some of us want no part in reconciliation.  We just want to get a few good licks in.  Isn't this the lodge pattern we're trying to kill?  

"Why must my every statement be challenged?"  If that doesn't smack of the old leadership mentality, what does?  Now that we're liberated from oppression, we still can't question?  This is Orwellian.  Have the pigs delivered us from the evil farmer?  Can we expect to see the pigs playing cards with the farmer soon?  God deliver us from our thirst for vengeance.  

I recommend the establishment of two new websites:  1) tohellwiththeassembly.com, which would serve as an arena for the free flow of venom against all who ever promoted the assembly lifestyle, including former doork-keepers; no restraint, no mercy; and 2) brokenleadership.com, in which former doork-keepers and other repentant oppressors can post statements of failure and repentance; no commentaries, just letters from leadership.  

This website has a sector that is longing for the return to pre-January 18th days.  God forbid.  

[freebird]

Roger writes:
"Why must my every statement be challenged?"  If that doesn't smack of the old leadership mentality, what does?  Now that we're liberated from oppression, we still can't question?  This is Orwellian.  Have the pigs delivered us from the evil farmer?  Can we expect to see the pigs playing cards with the farmer soon?  God deliver us from our thirst for vengeance.  


Does the truth offend you?  If I speak the truth in love in order to free people from the pig farmer, why would you question me.  Are you one of the pig farmers?

[freebird]

Again Roger writes:
1) tohellwiththeassembly.com, which would serve as an arena for the free flow of venom against all who ever promoted the assembly lifestyle, including former doork-keepers; no restraint, no mercy;

I detect a bit of anger and vitriole (don't be a copy-cat)

[freebird]

Jeremiah 21:12  O house of David, thus saith the LORD; Execute judgment in the morning, and deliver him that is spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor, lest my fury go out like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

[VinnieGalati]

Garth, Thanks for the liberty to repy and to speak my mind.

Ken- Forgive me, its only been 9 years of stifling and being told not to have conversations with the saints. Maybe some of that is coming out. I felt like I died and no longer existed in the saints minds for years after I left.

Roger- I hope you didn't mean that I believe I have my fire insurance and that is all that matters. Certainly not, the issue now is to live responsibly as a believer because I want to, not out of fear of condemnation. I believe that is what you were saying, but thought I could speak best on what I believe. I have been misquoted by many for a while. So if any saints do have need of clarification, I sure would appreciate them coming forward in this forum for that. I will gladly respond. Thanks (it just may take a couple of days)

Mark and Michelle- To that end, I do owe you guys clarification.  Mark,  thank you for your questions. I respect the way you came to me for clarification.  I can't help but remembering you growing up in the assembly. You were always so full of energy and spunk. You must be involved in sports today. No wait- Ken is your dad. Nevermind. Just joking, say hi to him for me. I will get to your questions.

Michelle- Your quoted response was "accept God's forgiveness".  I agree wholeheartedly. This is different than asking for God's forgiveness. You may think I am nit-picking, but I am not. To ask means it is not yet done or granted. To accept means you receive what is rightfully yours. I do want to say emphatically I do not believe in some kind of licentiousness or cheap grace-whatever that is.  The price was horrific that Christ paid. But the point is, To Him be all the glory. I can add nothing to His finished work of forgiveness but to accept it. I do not get forgiven because I  ask. I am already forgiven for all my sins-past , present and future. I walk in forgiveness. I will elaborate more, but do not want to lay out a 2 page post (just for you Roger).  I must go for now. Mark, I have not forgotten your questions, but I have to go to my brother Chris' for the Superbowl.  
God bless you guys- sorry for the lengthy post. VPG

[MichelleDJ]

Michelle- Your quoted response was "accept God's forgiveness".  I agree wholeheartedly. This is different than asking for God's forgiveness. You may think I am nit-picking, but I am not. To ask means it is not yet done or granted. To accept means you receive what is rightfully yours. I do want to say emphatically I do not believe in some kind of licentiousness or cheap grace-whatever that is.

I suppose I should have been clearer.  What I see a lot of times is the "cheap grace" you mention - which is "technically" thinking that because you are forgiven you do not need to repent.  However, on the other side of the coin, many believers are on the treadmill of a performance-based life.  My hope is that both of these types of believers will pray to be shown what true grace really is.

Those who suffer from a performance-based lifestyle generally won't accept the forgiveness and grace already handed to them.  That's what I meant by accepting the forgiveness.

Those living in the midst of cheap grace need to learn to bend the knee and repent.  They must remember that they will still be held accountable for the actions that follow their justification.  This isn't a "get out of jail free card" that allows them to hurt and harm at will.

::nods to all::  Just joined the boards to be "official."  I felt creepy leaving messages as a "guest."

[Hommes]

Amen and amen to what both of you are saying.  Vince, your reason for leaving the assembly was basically condensed into those words for me when you departed.  I will not "ask your forgiveness" but rather "accept your forgiveness" for not staying in touch.  (Oh, wait.  Am I misapplying grace here?  I'm so confused!)  It was always fun to run into you occasionally...  like Westport Playhouse.  (Was that Margaret Becker?)  

I drove to St. Charles Saturday.  I'm here for a week, which isn't a lot of time to assess the status here.  Here's to openness, honesty, humility, and wisdom for all God's people!  

[Rudy]

michele,

thanx for logging in. i remember reading the post
where you said that you wouldn't. Good for you  

[VinnieGalati]

Ok, I just need clarification.    Are you (Vince) saying that if we sin, we don't need to repent?  Do you believe there will be consequenses to our sins?  The bible says that if I do something to my brother is the same as doing it to God.  Now if I was to hit my brother, I believe the bible calls me to ask forgivness from my brother, AND since it is against God too, I must ask His forgivness.  I was just a little confused and would just like you to clear this up for me, please.

I would also like to whole heartedly agree with what Luke wrote below:

God is doing an awesome work here in St. Louis.  He is getting rejuvination, healing, and breakthrough in the lives of everyone.  There have been a few tears, but many smiles.

God IS working in St. Louis,  and may He continue to do this work.
 -Mark Teater
(Also a son of Ken Teater)

Mark- thanks for your questions from the other day. I apologize about the jock joke, no harm intended. It was a joke. The truth is, your dad always could run circles around me on the basketball court- now I'm sure more than ever.

Anyway, as to some of your questions, I did post the topic in a general way under "Bible"- then go topic- "did Jesus die for our sins". I couldnt figure out how to bring it over here.  
What I am saying is first of all we do sin and offend our brother in many ways. Yes, we do need to go to him and ask forgiveness for offending him. That is walking in love as a responsible believer. The issue is between the brother and me. Not between God and me. We have been reconciled to God through the cross. That is what the finished work of Christ was for. I can not add to that work by my asking for forgiveness, by my contrition, by my sorrow. No, that is all hogwash. What can wash away my sins- nothing but the blood. And it is not the blood + my "repentance". That is adding to His work no matter how you slice it.
I would challenge you to find one verse or reference where the apostle Paul tell the Christian to ask God for forgiveness after being saved. You won't. You will read many verses that say we are "to forgive each other even as Christ Jesus our Lord has forgiven us".  This is stated numerous times. Reference Eph4:31,32 and Col 3:13, and Eph 1:7. Each time the apostle Paul references our forgiveness it is in the past tense. Why? Because it is already done for you. It really is great news. This is half of what makes the gospel such great news.  This is not licentiousness though. Many misunderstand this point. Does this mean I can do whatever I want then? No, I am now free. Paul does say "all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify".  Did he really mean what he said? All things.... except. No all things.  The key though is the gospel does not stop with forgiveness. Three days later He rose from the dead in order to give us His very Life through the Holy Spirit. Jn 10:10- I have come that they might have life, and have it more abundantly.  Obviously if He came to give us life, we did not have it. Now, when I get saved I get both. First forgiven, second Christs life. You don't just get forgiven and then do as you please. Now I have one that I can depend on, that can control me (not a LB or an assembly).  I hope that is making some sense. I do not want to make books out of this BB, but this is what God began to show me back in 1994 that set me free.  Mark, again I say search the Scripture for yourself. Look for references concerning forgiveness of sins. Once a person gets a hold of this, he can begin to understand the New Covenant for the first time in his life and walk in the grace of God. "He gave His life for us, so that He could give His Life to us, so that He could live His life through us".  This is the meaning of the Christian life. This is not cheap grace. This is walking as a mature son before God, no longer needing to be treated as a slave under the law. Free from the law, O happy condition!
Feel free to come back to this post and ask further questions or challenge me on this. I will be glad to respond.  Thanks, VPG