Re: The Appearance of Evil

[Terry Huffman]

Thanks for the commendation Eric!
Evidently the Editor among editors didn't agree. Now if I only cd. have gotten those doggone similies to line up he wd. have seen my diligence and....

[David Mauldin]

Greg did you work for Ariel?

[Kimberley Tobin]

Since I'm signed on David, I'll respond for Greg.  No, he didn't work for Ariel.   He has worked at machine shops almost the whole time he has lived in the Valley.  There was a short period of time (when he had cancer and was doing the dreaded Gerson Therapy) he went back to school and worked for Tim McCarthy (LB in the Valley).  He said he would never work for Tim again after working for him for that short period of time.  Tim was the worst boss Greg ever worked for.   He was a taskmaster and Greg (this, while he was doing the therapy to fight his cancer!) would stay up all night to finish drawings for Tim.  There were many jobs that Greg never got paid for.  Even recently, Tim told Greg, "remember that job........well, I got paid for it and I'll get you the money for doing the drawings."  We still haven't seen any money from it!  btw, this job was well over four years ago!!!!  I thought that these men were to have good reputations in their work relationships!

[Aslan213]

Kimberley, as you and I both learned and experienced, being a LB does not automatically mean the person is righteous.  Quite to the contrary, I found the most deceptive people in my life were LB's.  

I'm sure Tim has no intention of ever paying Greg.  The money could be better spent on...his own things.  

I have lots more to say on these things, but the forum is probably not the best place to say it.

[David Mauldin]

Hi Greg, I'm just confussed with the potatoe head story.  What is the situation you are being laid off from?

[Kimberley Tobin]

David:

It is not Greg who was laid off.  Eric Buchman and I (Kimberley) worked for THE Head Leading Brother in our Assembly (SF Valley, CA).  He is actually the vice president (it is a corporation).  The President of the company is (or was, I'm not really sure) one of my dearest friends and someone who has great desires to rise in the hierarchy of the lodge (I believe he has desires to be a LB).   My husband and I considered both of these men to be two of our closest friends.  Eric and I gave notice that we were choosing to fellowship elsewhere the second week of October (and by the way, both Eric and my husband gave their reasons to the leadership-Eric to all three LB's and my husband to one LB-we thought there was plurality of leadership in this place and therefore didn't need to meet with all three.)  We, of course, were told that we didn't leave in the right way.  I was personally told, numerous times, that we didn't go to the leadership (whenever this was said to me, I would not be given time to respond, the person would generally hang up on me after having the last word.)  Lodge members are very good at attacking and then making a quick exit, not allowing for any critical thinking dialogue, under the guise that "I can't listen to you, you are being devisive and a railer and the word of God directs me to not have anything to do with you."

I digress.  We knew we would be fired.  It took them two months (they had to get all their ducks in a row, as we did ALL the accounting: billing, collections, payroll, payables, you name it, we did it.)  When they "laid us off", they used a "Marketing Consultant" to do their dirty work.  They didn't even have the guts to do it themselves.  They have since told a friend of both Eric and me (a current Lodge Member) the reason they had to do this was that they believed we would be contentious!  As God is my witness, I sat there calmly and took their abuse.  The only thing that perhaps could be considered contentious was when the marketing consultant said, "Yours is not the only position that is being eliminated.  There will be more."  I responded with, "Oh, I know, and we know the real reason we are being let go, not your fabricated reason of, 'We are reorganizing the company."  Perhaps the only other contentious statement I made was something like this, "I won't be available for any questions.  You will get all my files, etc., but don't expect me to train anyone or answer any questions.  You can pick up the pieces yourself."  To this, the marketing consultant asked, "You mean, if John calls and has questions, you won't be available to answer them?"  DUH  Did he not listen to me, when I made my statement?  So, I quietly responded, "No, I won't be available for John to answer any questions."  Excuse me...that's why they had me working for them in the first place!  I'm not going to work for free!

To see my one other interaction with them, review my posts, as I describe the last conversation I had with both of them (when I describe the HLB as the big potatoe-this really is a phrase I coined from Eric).

Any other questions, please feel free to ask.  

I pity these men!  

[Aslan213]

Hi Everyone,

I got an email from a friend who left the lodge years ago.  Apparently the lodge is doing damage control in the valley.  Surprise!  Surprise!    

They are calling ex-member(s) to warn them of "stuff" going on in the lodge and wanted to make sure that the ex-member(s) aren't being negatively influenced.  As usual the lodge member doesn't want to hear the truth, but just refers the person to the leading brothers.

Well, the lodge member got an earful!  The lodge DOES NOT CARE about ex-members if they are discouraged.  They do care if they are encouraged by other christians.

It's sad!    And it's appalling how wicked some people are in the lodge.  

[Aslan213]

This has bothered me and it is time to bring it to the light.  There is a brother in the valley who has been responsible for the tape ministry since the mid to late seventies.  One week before the excommunication, all the tapes were taken from his home and moved to a "leading brothers" home.  The following week, before the valley was told of the excommunication, 20 years of tapes were destroyed and thrown away.

This brother was never reimbursed for any of his purchases.  Many times when I was in the assembly, I asked if the assembly was paying for the tapes.  Each time he said, he was paying the bill himself.  A few times I donated tapes for him to use.  Generally there are 3 taped meetings per week and at least 10 tapes / year of special meetings.  Tapes in the '70's were at least $3/cassete, in the 80's at least $2/cassette, and early 90's at least $1.50/cassette.  Sometimes cheap tapes were used.

I have a few questions for leadership;
1.  Why were the tapes thrown out?  What are you afraid of?
2.  Did you pay the brother for damaging/stealing his property?  20yrs x 52 weeks x 3 tapes + (20*10) = 3320 tapes x $2 = $6640 plus or minus.
3.  Why are you trying to be so secretive about this?

Eric

[Heide]

Hey Rudy,

I think we all had the same hope that things would get better, people would change, there would be more love, etc.  But the house built on evil can't stand or change because the core is corrupt. George was an evil man with evil intentions. When a man exchanges God for a ministry there is intent already there!

Heide

[Arthur]

The following week, before the valley was told of the excommunication, 20 years of tapes were destroyed and thrown away.

  Sounds like the mafia or a government cover-up.
I wonder if the tape with the confession of who shot JFK was in the batch.

[Ken Fuller]

WHY DESTROY ALL THE TAPES???

(sounds like something Hillary Clinton did when there was a 'suicide' in the white house -- get in quick and destroy any and all documents)

My best guess is the true worry of legal action being taken.  And who knows what has been said over the course of 20 years that could be used in a court of law to incriminate ....

(yes, this IS a coverup)

[Ken Fuller]

I've tried to keep a positive attitude on the boards, be optomistic about repentance and look for good that actually has come out of the work.

But THIS disturbs me --- in a MAJOR way.

If it's true, it shows there are many involved, going to great extremes to cover up and to protect george AND THEMSELVES.

This is not good .......

[Scott McCumber]

Ken re: the destruction of the tapes,

Just a thought (not a very well developed one at this stage:

I have contended that George should be answerable secular authorities for many of his abuses - financial, etc.

In order for something to be proven in a civil court I'm guessing that a consistent doctrine and pattern must be proven. What more damning evidence than from the mouth of the Great Man himself!

Here is just one of many potential examples: Betty Geftakys spent 35 years setting herself up as a qualified counsellor, especially to married couples. In many instances her counselling was ruinous.

If she was sued in a civil court for putting herself out there as a qualified counsellor someone would have to prove that she did present herself that way and that her counselling was based on a specific and unique doctrine.  Guess where evidence of this doctrine could be found?

Scott

[Kimberley Tobin]

I don't know if I should post this, but who cares?

Don't worry Guys, they weren't able to destroy everything.  There is much evidence that we have, if you get my drift.  The tapes were in my home prior to their being destroyed.

If there is a need for evidence, it exists, I'm just not going to say where!

[Ken Fuller]

In comment to Betty's "counseling to couples" -- funny you mention that.

I remember one time she came through St Louis -- the first time I met her.  The whole weekend was so demeaning -- I left feeling lower about myself than I ever had in my life (and I can understand how someone struggling with depression could have left suicidal).

I thought of her as a cold, uncompassionate, comdemming woman.

After that I NEVER went to another meeting she was at (yes, i was a rebel).

Okay -- for those of you doorkeepers in St Louis, those meetings with Betty where I called and said I was "sick" -- I admit, I was just "sick" of getting comdemned and beat up to the point I had NO respect for myself as a brother, as a Christian, as a husband, as a father.

In fact, one "faithful shepherd" told me face to face: "Ken, you have failed as a father" -- because my kids weren't like his kids ?

Anyway -- that was the worst possible time for that quote because it was the lowest point in my life, when I felt a failure in EVERY aspect of my life and was comtemplating a life where I could find some semblance of self-respect.

JUST HOW MUCH DAMAGE HAS THIS WORK DONE TO PEOPLE?

Okay, I admit, I'm starting to get bitter, real bitter to the damage done .... it's starting to eat me that people are contemplating how to continue with this -- STOP IT!!!

THE WORK IS OVER!!!

IT CRUMBLED OVERNIGHT!!!!!!!

IT'S OVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GEORGE GEFTAKYS' WORK IS OVER !!!!!!

LET IT DIE