For whom did the Lord Jesus Christ die? (And why is it important?)

[H]

I would like to examine the question "For whom did the Lord Jesus Christ die?" This is one of the few questions that I consider important enough to make me want to devote my time and energy to. Why do I consider it so important? Because it is an integral part of the doctrine of salvation, which is one of the most basic, fundamental and important doctrines of the Bible. What difference does it make if we get "headcoverings" right if we get the doctrine of salvation wrong? What happened to the house in Matthew 7:27 that was built on sand instead of a solid foundation? It doesn't matter how beautiful and perfect the house is if it's built on the wrong foundation. I believe that the doctrine of salvation is part of the foundation, and I am more interested in making sure that the foundation is the right one than in arguing over decorative details of the house.

[karensanford]

This is an easy one.

John 3:16

Jesus died for "whosoever".

It's important because if they should believe in Him, they will not perish but have everlasting life.

[H]

Here are some questions for those who believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the entire human race:

1.   Does the last part of Isaiah 53:8 say "for the transgression of the entire human race was he stricken." Or does it say "for the transgression of MY PEOPLE was he stricken."?
2.   Does Matthew 20:28 say "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for the entire human race." or does it say "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY."?
3.   Does Matthew 26:28 say "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for the entire human race for the remission of sins." Or does it say "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for MANY for the remission of sins."?
4.   Does Mark 10:45 say "For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for the entire human race." Or does it say "For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY."?
5.   Does Mark 14:24 say "And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for the entire human race." Or does it say "And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for MANY."?
6.   Does Luke 22:20 say "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for the entire human race." Or does it say "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for YOU."?
7.   Does John 10:11 say "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the entire human race." Or does it say "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for THE SHEEP."?
8.   Does John 10:15 say "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the entire human race." Or does it say "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP."?
9.   Does John 15:13 say "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for the entire human race." Or does it say "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for HIS FRIENDS."
10.   Does Romans 5:8 say "But God commendeth his love toward the entire human race, in that, while the entire human race were yet sinners, Christ died for the entire human race." or does it say "But God commendeth his love toward US, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for US."?

[H]

Here are some more questions:

11.   Does Romans 8:32 say "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for the entire human race, how shall he not with him also freely give the entire human race all things?" or does it say "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for US all, how shall he not with him also freely give US all things?"
12.   Does I Corinthians 5:7b say "For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for the entire human race" or does it say "For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for US"?
13.   Does 1 Corinthians 11:24 say "And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for the entire human race: this do in remembrance of me." or does it say "And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for YOU: this do in remembrance of me."?
14.   Does 1 Corinthians 15:3 say "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for the sins of the entire human race according to the scriptures;" or does it say "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for OUR sins according to the scriptures;"?
15.   Does 2 Corinthians 5:21 say "For he hath made him to be sin for the entire human race, who knew no sin; that the entire human race might be made the righteousness of God in him." Or does it say "For he hath made him to be sin for US, who knew no sin; that WE might be made the righteousness of God in him."?
16.   Does Galatians 1:3-4 say "Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for the sins of the entire human race, that he might deliver the entire human race from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" or does it say "Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for OUR sins, that he might deliver US from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:"?
17.   Does Galatians 3:13 say "Christ hath redeemed the entire human race from the curse of the law, being made a curse for the entire human race: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" or does it say "Christ hath redeemed US from the curse of the law, being made a curse for US: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"?
18.   Does Ephesians 5:2 say "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved the entire human race, and hath given himself for the entire human race an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour." Or does it say "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved US, and hath given himself for US an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour."?
19.   Does Ephesians 5:25 say "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the entire human race, and gave himself for the entire human race;" or does it say "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved THE CHURCH, and gave himself for IT;"?
20.   Does 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 say "For God hath not appointed the entire human race to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for the entire human race, that, whether the entire human race wake or sleep, the entire human race should live together with him." Or does it say "For God hath not appointed US to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for US, that, whether WE wake or sleep, WE should live together with him."?

[H]

And here are some more questions:

21.   Does Titus 2:13-14 say "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for the entire human race, that he might redeem the entire human race from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." or does it say "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for US, that he might redeem US from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."?
22.   Does Hebrews 1:3 say "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged the sins of the entire human race, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;" or does it say "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged OUR sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"?
23.   Does Hebrews 9:28 say "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of the entire human race; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Or does it say "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of MANY; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."?
24.   Does Hebrews 10:10 say "By the which will the entire human race is sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." or does it say "By the which will WE are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."?
25.   Does Hebrews 10:14 say "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever the entire human race." or does it say "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED."?
26.   Does 1 Peter 1:18-20 say "Forasmuch as ye know that the entire human race was not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from their vain conversation received by tradition from their fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for the entire human race," or does it say "Forasmuch as ye know that YE were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for YOU,"?

[H]

And here are the rest of the questions (finally! I had to split them up because they didn't fit into one post):

27.   Does 1 Peter 2:21 say "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for the entire human race, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:" or does it say "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for US, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:"?
28.   Does 1 Peter 2:24 say "Who his own self bare the sins of the entire human race in his own body on the tree, that the entire human race, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes the entire human race was healed." or does it say "Who his own self bare OUR sins in his own body on the tree, that WE, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes YE were healed."?
29.   Does 1 Peter 4:1 say "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for the entire human race in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" or does it say "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for US in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"?
30.   Does 1 John 3:16 say "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for the entire human race: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." or does it say "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for US: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."?
31.   Does 1 John 4:9-10 say "In this was manifested the love of God toward the entire human race, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that the entire human race might live through him. Herein is love, not that the entire human race loved God, but that he loved the entire human race, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for the sins of the entire human race." or does it say "In this was manifested the love of God toward US, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that WE might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved US, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for OUR sins."?
32.   Does Revelation 1:5 say "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved the entire human race, and washed the entire human race from their sins in his own blood," or does it say "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved US, and washed US from OUR sins in his own blood,"?
33.   Does Revelation 5:9 say "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed the entire human race to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" or does it say "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"?

[H]

(And now for the last part of my post:)

(Hint: The correct answer to the 33 questions I have just posted is ALWAYS the second alternative, NEVER the first alternative.)

If the Lord Jesus Christ really did die for the sins of "the entire human race," why did God ALWAYS choose the second alternative in these 33 examples, and NEVER the first alternative? I mean, here we have 33 passages from 16 different books of the Bible, ALL of which deal with the death of Christ, and yet NOT ONE of them SAYS that He died for the sins of "the entire human race." They DO SAY that He died for the sins of "MY PEOPLE," "MANY,"  "YOU" (=the disciples), "THE SHEEP," "HIS FRIENDS," "US/OUR/WE" (=believers), "THE CHURCH," "THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED." How much plainer could it be, dear friends? Wouldn't you think that if the Lord Jesus Christ really did die for the sins of "the entire human race," that God would have at least mentioned it once or twice in these 33 passages? Why is there NOT A SINGLE VERSE in the ENTIRE BIBLE that plainly SAYS that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of "the entire human race"? Could it possibly be because it simply isn't true? Now, before you start saying "What about John 3:16? What about I John 2:2? What about ..." let me assure you that I am perfectly aware that there are a FEW verses which SEEM to provide some support for the idea. I mean, this idea probably wouldn't be so popular if there weren't at least a few "proof texts" which can be INTERPRETED to support it. But I don't believe that God contradicts Himself in His Word. I don't believe He would say one thing in these 33 passages, and then turn around and say something completely different in a few other places. I intend, Lord willing, to carefully examine John 3:16, I John 2:2 and other "proof texts" in future posts. Until then, I would just like to point out the FACT that NOT ONE of these "proof texts" actually SAYS that Christ died for the sins of "the entire human race." Many people INTERPRET them that way, but I hope to present evidence in future posts that that INTERPRETATION is not correct.

May the Lord open the eyes of all His true sheep!

(But I will still love them even if He doesn't!)

Love in Christ,
H

P.S. I am willing to answer sincere, polite questions, as time permits. I am NOT willing to respond to arrogant, rude, unkind, malicious attacks. I would also suggest that you wait with the questions until I have finished examining the "proof texts."

[Oscar]

Dear H,

These arguments are good examples of why those who believe in a limited atonement have an uphill struggle.

Remember, you are arguing in the face of a verse that says, "...and He himself is the propitiation for aour sins; and NOT FOR OUR SINS ONLY, but ALSO for those of the WHOLE WORLD"  I John 2:2

This is supported by I Timothy 2:3-6  "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God and our savior, who desires ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom FOR ALL..."  (in the context, clearly all men)

As well as I Timothy 4:10  "...God, who is the savior of ALL MEN, especially of believers."

And of course we have II Peter 3:9 too.  "The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentence."

You have a problem here, and the usual way of dealing with these verses from your viewpoint is to try to weaken their force by interjecting words that are not in the text.  Do you have something different?

As to your mention of "many", I fail to see that this supports your assertion at all.   Many means more than one or two.  It could mean any amount, and only if there is a limiting context can you put a limit on this word. There are many eggs in a carton. (12) There are also many stars.  (about a billion trillion).

As to Jesus laying down his life for his friends, or for the sheep.  How does this limit the atonement?  A soldier can sacrifice his life for his friends, as well as for his country, which would include his enemies.   Christ could die for the sheep without dying ONLY for the sheep.  

These arguments lack force.  The real force behind them does not come from the verses themselves...the thrust of the limited atonement argument comes from the extreme Calvinists views on election.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

[H]

Dear Karen,

Unfortunately, you do not get an "A" for that answer. You left out some very important words. He died for "whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM"!

But I love you anyway!

Love in Christ,
H

This is an easy one.

John 3:16

Jesus died for "whosoever".

It's important because if they should believe in Him, they will not perish but have everlasting life.

[Bob Sturnfield]

As Tom stated, this is a very clear verse:

1 Timothy 2: 5  For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
6  who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time

As for "MY PEOPLE," "MANY,"  "YOU" (=the disciples), "THE SHEEP," "HIS FRIENDS," "US/OUR/WE" (=believers), "THE CHURCH," "THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED."

The dangerous implication is that "some" are not allowed to receive the gift of God and to thereby enter this category.  The gift is available to "ALL".

We have no right to tell God that He can not "call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved."

[karensanford]

Unfortunately, you do not get an "A" for that answer. You left out some very important words. He died for "whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM"!

But I love you anyway!

Love in Christ,
H


John 3:16

Jesus died for "whosoever".

It's important because if they should believe in Him, they will not perish but have everlasting life.

I think I covered that  (or at least I intended to) when I said, "IF they believe in Him..."

Fortunately for all of us, He loves us anyway.

[karensanford]

Those who believe that Jesus only died for SOME are sure lucky that they get to be part of the SOME.  Then again, how do we know that we are part of the some?

[Bob Sturnfield]

Lump of Clay

Matthew 13: 28b  The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29  But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.'

Who are we to tell the Lord what He can do?  When I was first saved I rejoiced that the Lord had taken me who was but tares, and by His grace transformed the "tares to wheat".

Jeremiah 18: 3  Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel.
4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.

My Lord has "endured with much longsuffering" me, who was a "vessel of wrath prepared for destruction" and from the same lump has made a "vessel for honor."

[Bob Sturnfield]

Choose Life

I use to often take the teens camping at Illinois Beach State Park, "under the shadow of the nuclear power plant" in Zion.  I remember once sharing the following gospel:

To light up a room, I flip the light switch. I do not have to understand the intricacies of the interaction of quarks and lepton, nor how a single electron can apparently be traveling by every possible path both real and imaginary at the same time.  Neither do I have to understand how the power plant in Zion worked to generate the current.  

Yes, without those things the light bulb would never light.  But, from my perspective, I simply flipped the switch.  Very rarely have I seen the room lights turn on without someone flipping the switch.  That does not mean that I believe that there would have been light without the power plant in Zion.  Nor would it work without God's ordering of creation.

In the same way we do not have to understand the intricacies of the working of God to be saved.  God, in sending His Son, has done everything for our salvation.

Ephesians 2: 8  For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9  not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Salvation is a free gift, my part is to receive it by faith.  Yes, even that faith is a gift from God.  

My question is always, "what about you?"  You have heard how Jesus Christ died for your sins. The Lord has given you the faith to believe.  Will you reject God's "gift of eternal life" or will you receive the risen Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?

The Lord has done all the work, your part is to choose to believe and receive.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live;
20a  that you may love the LORD your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life

[Oscar]

Those who believe that Jesus only died for SOME are sure lucky that they get to be part of the SOME.  Then again, how do we know that we are part of the some?

Karen,

The answer is, they don't.  They hope so, they believe so by looking for signs of grace.  But they can't know for sure until they die.

Tom M.