Where is.....

[editor]

I may be incorrect, but I thought the purpose of this website was to encourage and assist those who have successfully broken free from the Assembly, and lead them into or support them in fulfilling and loving relationships with Jesus Christ.  

Karen, Rachel, John and David.

Karen is absolutely correct, the purpose of this website IS to encourage and assist the wounded.  I think that this thread is proof of that.

David, you are welcome here.  You know that this Website exists to glorify the God of the Bible, and to help His people who have been hurt.  Even if you no longer have faith, you are still welcome here.  David, you are welcome to post about any topic you wish, as long as you don't use profanity, etc.  I have total confidence that you will never do this, as I have known you for many years.

John, you are also welcome here.  It is obvious that we have all been blessed by your contribution, and we will continue to be in the future.  You have the same right to post your mind as anyone else.

ditto to everyone else.  I will not censor this board, unless impersonation, blasphemy or profanity occurs.  I will use my own judgement on whether certain statements that blaspheme God are worthy to delete.

I think that the other users, like Karen,  will be able to make their own contributions in order to set things right, even as happened here in this example.

Over at the Lodge website, they screen every post, and only allow ones that make the website look good.  We will not have that kind of phoniness here.  If we are proud pharisees, it will show through.  If we are apostate, that will also be made apparent.  If we are men and women of faith, who love the Lord Jesus Christ, that will also be known.

Obviously, the latter is what we pray for.

God bless you all.

editor

[Sebastian Andrew]

I caught the post right before work and had no time to reply. Everyone else has done a fine job, so I have little to say. Sometimes we're like the boxer who has won the round, and the bell has rung; and we are still swinging away, disqualifying ourselves. Firstly, David is quoting others in his post. Secondly, he has clearly and honestly stated where he is at in terms of  faith, so he is not trying to trick anybody that I am aware of.
Also, what if there is a pathetic Roman Catholic who is an assembly-ex? Should he or she shrink away from participating in this site? This kind of attitude is very reminiscent of what many of us have left (I hope) behind. Still, it is better to be passionate about something rather than comfortably numb.
Yours,
Sebastian Andrew

[Aslan213]

Hi Everyone,

I was very shocked and too upset to write what I thought when I saw your post after midnight John.  I'm glad the others wrote what they did.  I would like to add a few things.

1.  I don't think he condemned Grace Bible Chapel.  He was referring to the assembly being legalistic.

2.  When you left, things were not nearly as bad as they are now.  Was there emotional assault?  Was there spiritual assault?  Was there physical abuse? (Yes!)  Was there physical assault?  You read correctly...there have been instances of physical assault on someone who entreated a LB.

3.  As you attacked him publicly, so I think you need to make it right with him.  He needs to know (especially from you) that he is welcomed on this website.  We are not exclusive like the lodge is.  

Dave, I want you to know that your posts are appreciated on this website.  I still remember when we went on outreach together in 1993 in Seattle.  You always had a care for others.  That encouraged me!

The Lord bless you all,

Eric

[Oscar]

Tom and Steve visited Grace Bible Chapel while they were exiting Fullerton.  Both said the legalism and controle were too much.  People in the Plymouth bretheren assemblies were familiar with Steve (Minnessotta)  You might try them?

I What?   David, I have never visited Grace Bible Chapel.  I know what it is, but I don't know where it is.
I certainly said, and still do say, that the Assembly's legalism and control are "too much".  But I have never said anything like that about GBC.
Thomas Maddux, aka "oscar".

[buzz]

If you look a few posts back, someone asked about Tom Hyun and Steve Weiner.  I believe David M. was referring to them.

[Oscar]

David,

You have some pretty harsh things to say here about Grace Bible Chapel, which was at least spiritual enough once to deny commendation to George Geftakys when he sought it.

Having talked to older brothers there, I discovered that they were very disturbed about someone who once apparently believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, and then apostasized. They attributed that in part to asscociation with the Lodge, but i wouldn't receive that.

I told them that the Lord's own have no excuse for apostasy from the faith, and that's for sure. They agreed with me after I made that point.

Here is what you say here about your own self:

I am living in La Mirada CA. Just bought a condo- I teach in Buena Park at Gilbert School and I attend the Unitarian Church in Fullerton.  I sing in the chior and work with the homeless. I also study Buhddism (I consider myself a Buhddist) and enjoy attending seminars at the Philisophical Research Center

As bad as the Lodge is, it still hasn't achieved the low status of your haunts.

So, you tell us that you hang around with demons and their teaching, and we are supposed to listen to you prate on in your judgments about Christians?

I want you to know I, for one, am not that stupid.

You are the apostate the Grace Chapel people told me about, aren't you?

John,
It seems to me that an application of Col. 4:6 would be wise.
Tom Maddux

[Sebastian Andrew]

Well editor,
You've got your Greek-spouting heavy-hitter. The bell has already rung and he is still swinging. Profanity isn't just expressed through "naughty" words. Perhaps it's time to edit the advertisement referred to in our private correspondence? E-mail and telephone aren't sufficient when it comes to matters such as these.
You have a difficult, time-consuming job; and I appreciate your efforts.
Respectfully,
Sebastian Andrew

[karensanford]

John Malone, forget being nice.  You make me want to vomit.  I wonder how many people you have turned off to Christianity with your vile hatred?

It is very interesting that you claim to have left the Lodge.  While you may not be there physically, your mind sounds as though it is firmly entrenched in the judgmental practices discussed on this Board.

You have a LOT of nerve calling anything anyone else writes arrogant, dishonoring, shameful crap.  REMOVE THY PLANK.

Karen M. Sanford

[Kimberley Tobin]

John:

I did not weigh in when you originally assaulted David (although, do you take the thoughts of a woman as equal to that of a man?)

How did Jesus treat those who were in need of the Savior?  What about the woman caught in adultery brought before the Pharisees?  What of the Samaritan woman at the well?  What about how he dealt with the man with the legion of demons in him?  Jesus had compassion on people John.  Not your "huggy-feely" type.  He met men and women exactly where they were.  

You think that by your words, condemning David, is going to "bring him to his senses"!  Wow! Are you wrong!  You've never said so, but, I suppose you are a parent.  I'm just beginning to throw out all my lodge parenting skills, which are very similar to how you dealt with David.  Christ said to "speak the truth in love".  Love is not lambasting someone.  It is caring for their souls in such a way, that we are different from the world.  How was the lodge any different from the worst drug addiicted or alchohol addicted relationship in the world?  What did this teach David?  It certainly didn't teach him who Christ is or that Christianity was something to embrace.  GIVE THE GUY A BREAK!  The Lord said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  I sure hope you get a mouthful the next time you sin!  Or, like George, do you say you never sin?

I hope what people find when they come to this BB is not the "huggy feely" compassion.  But that we are trying to expose the works of darkness of the lodge through our dialogue and that MAYBE those who are seriously wounded would begin to see that perhaps they threw out the baby with the bathwater.  MAYBE in this context, they will begin to reevaluate their current beliefs.  But when people like you treat them in the manner you treated David, they can't even hear you (it's just the same lodge logic, just couched in a different know-it-all spirituality.)

BTW-try reading his original post you were commenting on-he simply was conveying what SOMEONE ELSE SAID!  He didn't even endorse what SOMEONE ELSE SAID!  And you know what, even if he did, win the guy with love.  That's how each one of us was won by Christ.  We were not won by Christ shaking his finger at us and telling us how we had all of our doctrine wrong and we were hanging with demons.  I'm not a bible scholar but go read Romans 2.  God knows the state of David's heart and if David is to be won, it will be through showing him the love of God, not the condemnation and judgement that was typical of the Pharisee (who, by the way, Jesus was quick to call on the carpet for such behavior!)

[editor]

OK, this is not a satirical post.

I am not here to tell people what is acceptable to write.  We have invited current Assembly members to share here.  What they have to say could be far worse than what John said.  Are we going to censor them?  No!  Are we free to comment? Absolutely, and it is obvious that many of us will.

David has not defended himself, and he has surely seen the post.  Shouldn't we all give him  a chance to say what he is going to say, before we decide whether he is "won or lost?"

Then there is the matter of the real point in all of this.  Again, at the Lodge BB, every post is pre-screened before it goes up.  Even then, some of them are removed if they hint at a problem.  The environment is false, and everyone knows it.  In contrast, this is real--at least as real as cyber-space can be--and people recognize that as well.

If I ban John, which I can do, it will only create a false unity, which is exactly what the lodge has.  If I ban David, because he has pulicly proclaimed himself to not be a christian anymore (he told me this) then we become exclusive and we rid ourselves of the very people we are trying to reach.  This is a ministry, but it is not a church!  We want unsaved and wounded people here, the more the better! Most ex-lodge are christians, and they are wounded, even some of the "strong" ones.  They are all welcome.

Neither one of them will be banned, or censored, with the exception of "naughty" words, impersonation or blasphemy. Regarding the latter, I will decide what needs to be removed.  I guarantee that John Malone is not going to blaspheme, neither is David Mauldin.

So, in the lodge, we would never have been allowed to speak up, like John is doing.  We coudn't "call out an apostate," because they were our leaders! We can here. We can also level criticism against one of our more vocal posters.  Interesting, John gave us "The Lodge," Geftakysites,  the some truly first rate thinking about all of this mess that most of us find ourselves sorting out.  Shall we crucify him?  For insensitivity?

Here's what you can do: ban his private messages, don't read his posts, and tell him what you think of him.  No problem.  However, he has the same right to do that, doesn't he?

So, this dialogue that we have been having is real. It is not censored, regulated spirituality, it is real folks saying what they really think.  I think it is awesome, in the truest sense of the word.

People are going to criticise us for what we are doing here.  Shall I remind you all to be "Good Examples?"  NO!  Be real.  Be a real good example, or a real bad example, but be real.

It is easier than we thought to become leading brothers isn't it?  I mean, I can delete all of this, ban a member, and police everyone's ability to express themselves in a few seconds, and some of us would like that.  Now we can see why we were so taken in by the Assembly.

Here is my personal opinion:

Let freedom ring.  Post whatever you like.  We will all learn many things from it all.  Also, sometimes people are good writers, but when you meet them in person, you find out that they aren't who you thought they would be from their writings.  Others, are not so good at writing, but when you meet them, you are amazed at how well they express themselves verbally.  The point is that our total personalities are not perfectly described by the few words we type here.   There is much more to each of us than our posts.


I challenge you all to call John, and speak to him in person, as I have.  I have also called David, although not since this "horrible attack" was launched against him.  Find out who these people are and it may help you to understand what is going on.  Do any of you know what David suffered in the Lodge?  How about John?  Do you have any idea what he went through?  I think it is unwise to judge either of them by a few sentences.  Comment and express displeasure?  By all means.  Take action and ban someone?  No way.

Also, this thread should be under any and all topics. This section is for finding people. Shall we continue the discussion over there?

This is by far the most real and important dialogue we have had to date on this board.  Thank you John and David for bringing it to our attention.

editor

PS  Everything being said about John has been said about me for writing the articles and putting them on the web.  The exact same words were used to discredit and demonize me.  Shall I delete everything and shut this down?  Certainly not!  Did I learn something about myself from all of the criticism...you bet.  John can learn as well, and David can too.  

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings:
I agree(for what it's worth) with the editor about banning in this case. Banning is not what was on my mind(editing, yes) in criticising Mr. Malone's posts. I reviewed everyone else's posts-I could be mistaken-and didn't find anybody advocating his removal. It's not my place to demand anything.
Freedom is great! It's what we do with that freedom by exercising self-restraint that preserves it.
Respectfully,
Sebastian Andrew

[buzz]

John, you totally took what David said out of context. If you had read the previous post (perhaps) you would have realized it.   So attacking him base on what you thought he said was totally uncalled for.

 He wasn't saying GBC was legalistic and controlling he was referring to the Lodge because that is the reason Tom H. and Steve W. left.  He was trying to help someone find them.

 >Re:Where is.....
>« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2002, 06:10:31 PM »  
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Tom and Steve visited Grace Bible Chapel while they were exiting Fullerton.  
>Both said the legalism and controle were too much.  People in the Plymouth
>bretheren assemblies were familiar with Steve (Minnessotta)  You might try
>them?
>


> Tom Hyun
>« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2002, 05:37:50 PM »  
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Does anybody remember Tom Hyun or Steve Weiner?  Many moons ago they
>lived in Fullerton.  If anybody has any idea where they are, I'd love to get in
>touch with you.

[guest]

Rev 12:6  Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

One thing I have learned from Brother George is that the enemy always oversteps himself.  Here you all are, attacking those who dwell in heaven, the overcomer bride of Christ, those upholding the testimony to Jesus.  And lo and behold, God has given you a spirit of confusion. Now you are attacking eachother.  Soon your plans will be destroyed, because God sustains His testimony, nothing shall prevail against it.

[Sebastian Andrew]

I would say ignore Mr. Malone(if he continues in the same fashion) and Guest. It will work wonders and is very economical at the same time.

[trockman]

Hello All!

I would like to respond to guest.  No one here is blashphemeing God, his name, his tabernacle, or those who dwell in heaven.

Most of us are Christians, who love Jesus.  Most of us are also reading the evidence on the main page.  If you look at the Bible, look at the evidence on the website, and look at the hundreds of stories and accounts on this BB, you get a compelling picture about what is actually going on.

A false brother has damaged the faith of many.  At the same time, a compassionate High Priest, Jesus, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, is standing by ready to forgive and heal.  This is the message of this website.  How is that blasphemy?  That, dear guest, is the gospel.

I think you should read http://www.geftakysassembly.com/persecution.html

This will give you a little perspective on what real persecution is and is not.

Far from wanting people to deny Christ, we want to see people accept Him, and restore fellowship with Him that has been broken.  While doing this, we are sure to make asses of ourselves from time to time. After all, we were in the Assembly...

However, we know them by their fruit. We know the wisdom that decends from above because it is pure, peaceable, easily entreated.  People are free to post, and the rest judge.

Guest,  please explain how it is that George's ministry is referred to in Rev. 12.  Is it the remnant, or part of the other religion?  Or perhaps a mixture of both.  Please elaborate.

Brent