The fitness of the leadership

[AaronC]

My advise to the those still clinging to the assembly (leader and layman)--Just walk away.  I have an elderly uncle back in Kentucky who helped liberate Buchenwald concentration camp.  When I visited him 2 summers ago he showed me pictures of the vacant-eyed prisoners whom he liberated.  Many were unsure of where to go.  All they had known for the past many months had been destroyed by the Allied Liberation.  What they did not know was the joy, peace, full meals, and liberty were waiting for them just outside the gates.

It's the same with those still in the assembly.  The pastureland of Christianity isn't some barren, salt marsh as George Geftakys has so long maintained.  It's wide open, frutiful, and pleasant.  This isn't to say that one leaving Buchenwald shouldn't be wary of rattlesnakes, poison mushrooms, and used car salesmen.  The point is that--with God's help and direction--the merits of the pleasant places exceed the perils of the dangerous ones.  My words to those which tremble in assemblies are Caleb's words to the Children of Israel--"Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it" (Numbers 13:30).  Sure "there be giants in the land."  But "if God be for us, who can be against us?"  

The leadership in SLO only accepted the dissolution of the Assembly after it was impossible to do otherwise.  I am glad that they have done so.  But is this praiseworthy?

After World War 2, after the fall of the Axis Powers, it became clear that there needed to be a regime change in Germany.  That the former Nazis accepted the Allied occupation of their country was not a testimony to their repentance.  It was their acceptance of a settled fact.
The new changes were not protested by either the German people or the failed Nazi leadership.  Both of these groups agreed with the Allies that it was time for a change.  All realized that this was what was meant by "unconditional surrender."  It seemed unlikey then that those who had remained loyal to the Fuhrer until the end could be counted in the future.  Their "repentance" in many cases was de facto and a mere acknowledgement of the unavoidable.  Depending on their culpability, former National Socialists were hanged, imprisoned, or allowed to quietly blend back into society.  

I am highly suspect of assembly leadership.  There seems to be an inverse relationship to one's suitability to lead and one's willingness to do so.   In SLO, the man who was most courageous--Kirk Cesaretti--is the most self-reproachful and least willing to lead the flock.  I told Jeff and Roberto on many occasions that Christ was not the focus of the assembly but that the assembly was the focus.  I used the example of Dagon on at least one occasion.  The assembly was continually propped, despite its failures.  Now that Dagon is in a thousand pieces, it's time to stop defending him.
 
(Perhaps we should get a discussion thread going about the MANIFOLD ERRORS taught by the assembly.  That might help to extinguish the mythology that George and David are the only problem.)  

Greg Holder has been named as complicit in Judy's abuse.  Let me also name him as pointing our to me that there is a book called the Bible and that it should teach Christians how to live.  I still love him, as I do the other saints still in the assembly.

But I love the truth more.  Today could be the day when the leaders begin to look afresh at their Bibles and their God--as sheep.  And today could be the day when the last sheep leave the prison house, bleary eyed but alive.  Read in John 10 about the Great Shepherd waiting to bring you into his pasture.  Don't be afraid.  The razor wire is down and the gun turrets are all silent.

You're free.

[Kimberley Tobin]

Bravo!  Amen!  Awesome!  (Kimberley just about started crying )

I hope this speaks volumes to those who will honestly look back at their involvement with this place and realize that there is deliverance on "the other side" of the assembly.

Greg & Kimberley Tobin

[Scott McCumber]

Rudy,

I think Verne logged off, but I can answer your question. Verne was from Champaign (via the Virgin Islands) and he began fellowship in Tuscola. Not too many years later they were "allowed" to break bread in Champaign.

If I remember correctly Verne was a student at the U of I. Don't know about the Kansas connection.

Verne, if you read this, hope it's OK I answered for you? Are you really 51? That means that you were younger than I am now when I knew you! Wow.

Scott

[Arthur]

To put it in the words of yoda, "You must unlearn what you have learned."
 

Excuse me Arthur, you have misquoted Yoda.  It should read, "Unlearn you must, things you have learned...mmmm."  Editor




Disclaimer for the hypersensitive :  I do not actually believe in Yoda, nor do I suggest that anyone else believe in him.  He is just a fictional character, and this particular quote seems fitting and caused a chuckle or two;)   Enjoy  

[Rob Kazarinoff]

Hey Big Aaron !!

Excellent insight.  Hammer to Nail on Head.  Now that the Fuhrer is dead, will anyone now rationalize following Himmler (organizer of gestapo and SS)?  How 'bout Gering?  Now in no way is George to be equated to Hitler.  However, anyone with a rational mind must agree the same principles apply when it comes to assembly leadership.

Nail on Head.

Rob K

[Stillwater]

Hi.

  I'm new here, and I haven't read all the articles yet, so forgive me if I'm inaccurate as far as what's happened. With that said, I was apalled by the letters between the Tr0ckmans and the SLO leadership. For one thing, it is not enough for the SLO leadership to admit they were wrong and say they're sorry. As has been pointed out, they were basically doing it at gunpoint with George being excommunicated over his failure to repent. If they're really sorry, they should step down. They could advise people with sound biblical training as they attempt to heal the flock, but they should not lead because they are fully indoctrinated into Geoge's twisted teachings and because they let such horrible things continue so long.
  As to Brent's letter to SLO, it seems to me that the "joy of the Lord" is at work again here. I, for one, was taught to repent every time I had an emotion that wasn't "the joy of the Lord." To express anger, fear or sarcasm was sin. THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL!
  "He [John the Baptist] therefore began saying to the multitudes who were going out to be baptized by him, 'You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bring forth fruits in keeping with repentance. . . " Luke 3:7-8
  "And He [Jesus] said to them, 'Go and tell that fox. . . ." Luke 13:32
  The Bible doesn't record Jesus or John the Baptist repenting of sarcasm, bitterness or anger. I have never read anything from Brent that was inappropriate or not justified. I understand the desire to be reunited with your friends in the Assembly and the desire to be humble, but I don't think Brent should have repented in this case.

  Sincerely,
  Heather Fryling

[Aslan213]

The Bible doesn't record Jesus or John the Baptist repenting of sarcasm, bitterness or anger. I have never read anything from Brent that was inappropriate or not justified. I understand the desire to be reunited with your friends in the Assembly and the desire to be humble, but I don't think Brent should have repented in this case.

Amen!

[Arthur]

Um..left it in actually.
For some reason that yoda picture doesn't show sometimes.  Here it is again.

[Arthur]

Ooops...sorry, that was the darker side of the Microsoft founder.  Here it is..

[Arthur]

No wait, that's not it either...ah, here it is

[BenJapheth]

Heather,

Brent's humility laid a great foundation in encouraging goodwill and trust in SLO.

Clearly an "attitude" problem and gross sinful behavior are NOT EQUAL.  However, since Brent was willing to scrub his elbows a bit, it went a long way in getting some thoroughly filthy folks into the tub.

Those folks "coming clean" or at least "starting the process" to come clean set in motion the falling of multiple dominos through-out the assemblies 32 or so gathering around the country and perhaps a dozen more around the world.

A little humility went a very long way...Don't underestimate the power of grace in one man's life and what kind of storm it can unleash.

Blessings To You Heather, Chuck

[Arthur]

"...since Brent was willing to scrub his elbows a bit, it went a long way in getting some thoroughly filthy folks into the tub. "

Heheh, Chuck, you have a way with words.


"The mug shot was you in 1977."


Rudy,  was only two years old in '77.  And no, he's not my father either (Art, I am your father).  Course, if he was, I'd be heir to the evil empire  
Interesting that Star Wars came out the same year Bill had his pict. taken.

"The next two are the Sears photo
studio shots of you. Man, you are
not, and i mean not, aging like a
good vintage."
Heheh.  Hey, if you can't say something nice...
Actually, you should have seen me before the face lift

[karensanford]

So...that mug shot kind of looks like Bill Gates.  Am I right?  That must have come from thesmokinggun.com.

Strangely enough, his arrest (or at least his photo) was on the day I CAME INTO THIS WORLD-- 12/13/1977.  At least someone had a reason to celebrate that day.

[Arthur]

Wha?  Born the same day...eerrriee  

Maybe you have some kind of bond with him.  Do you own a Microsoft product?  Another piece of evidence -- all pointing to it.  Eerrieeee

[karensanford]

Arthur--are you ready for this?

I OWN Microsoft products.  I OWN Microsoft stock.  I have personal friends who work at Microsoft and have even seen Bill.

Bill and I both drive our OWN selves to work.

We both dropped out of college on more than one occasion.

Bill once visited California, where I was born.

It is possible that we have dined in the same restaurants at different times.  I've heard he likes Kidd Valley Hamburgers.

AND...drumroll...both Bill and I live in the Seattle Metro area!!!!

This is just too much.

Aliens?  Psychic Friends?  Government Conspiracy?  Vast Right Wing Conspiracy?  Past Life Regression Experiences?  (I'm not sure what that last one means, but I heard it somewhere and it sounded cool).  

This should be on the humor thread.