The fitness of the leadership

[Stillwater]

  You're right Chuck. Brent did do the right thing in order to make things happen. We are dealing with people here, and people need patience and help. If Brent had an attitude problem, he has the right to repent of it--it did help in a lot of ways. My post wasn't meant to be mainly about Brent, though; it was about the SLO leadership. My prayer is that those who've done wrong will recognize it and show the fruit of repentance. The time for lip service is over. Too many people have been hurt.

  Heather

[David Mauldin]

Aaron I totally agree!  There is no way the leaders can just smooth this over.  I suspect they are attempting to salvage whatever they can.  Interesting the parrallels that have taken place over the past 6 months to those in Bunyons "Holy War"

[AaronC]

The leaders are not Nazis or communists.  What I was questioning in my post was their willingness to cling to error, be man worshippers, and "kick against the pricks" of their consciences.

Of course we all did that--not just the leaders.  

I heard David teach that "God did not become a man" and allowed Jeff to explain this away.  I am guilty.

One of the early teachings that I encountered in the Assembly was that lying for leadership and the saints is OK.  I allowed the Scriptures concering Rahab, the Hebrew Midwives, and David among the Phillistines to be twisted to facilitate sin.  I was wicked in so doing.

I saw Judy and David's brusies and didn't dig deeply.  I am guilty.

I heard George teach that there is a separate Glory (one with Jesus and one with The Father) and that the Overcomers got to be with The Father and that the lesser saints had to settle for Jesus.  GOD HAVE MERCY.  I didn't kick.  I am guilty.

I didn't much fight the Assembly's non-purgatory Purgatory.  (Non-Overcoming Christian may find themselves in "outer darkness" where there will be gnashing of teeth.)  I am guilty.

I was a brute to my wife.  I am guilty.

There are scores of areas in which Assembly leaders taught lies and covered for lies.  And yet none of this would have been possible without the complicity of the membership.

To continue with my (perhaps unfortunate) earlier post--If the Assembly leaders could be likened to Nazis whose alligience to their leader eclipsed their consciences, then we the flock were the German people who enabled the deception.

We are all guilty.  May God have mercy on us.

"Turn your eyes upon Jesus/Look full in His wonderful face/And the things of earth will grow strangely dim/In the light of His glory and grace.

[editor]

Aaron my friend:

That is a beautiful confession.  I can't tell you how much I am blessed by it.  It also points out a stark contrast with regard to the leader's repentance.

I will have a story about this on the main page in an hour or two.

As far as commies and Nazi's go,  perhaps people would like to read this:

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/glasnost.html

The battle is not yet over, but the captives who wish to go free are now able to do so.  There are others who perhaps do not want freedom in Christ, for whatever reason.

Brent

[Arthur]

Could you really blame the German people after that "insane Treaty of Versailles" ?  

[Joseph Reisinger]

Brent,
"The battle is not yet over, but the captives who wish to go free are now able to do so.  There are others who perhaps do not want freedom in Christ, for whatever reason."

What is the battle of which you speak?  
What is the particular freedom in Christ that you are talking about here?

I want to be clear.  I believe you have aimed to do so as well.
(added) I also want to thank you wholeheartedly for this site, and for this bulliten board.
Your brother in Christ,
Joseph

[brad]

OPEN QUESTION HERE....forgive me if I am a bit late to the party...but the issue jumps out at me...

I am wondering out loud...but is it possible, even probable that GOD did start a work through George...and somewhere along the way...GG stepped up to take the credit and GOD quietly moved on? It would seem so, as many owe their initial salvation experience to the Assembly.

The repeated historical danger of leadership is the lack of ACCOUNTABILITY....hundreds, probably thousands of GG minestries have been spawned and corrupted over church history. My belief is that GG was a gifted, intellegent man who at one time was used of GOD. That time has passed and now, hopefully those who experienced such an example of pride and apostolic arrogance will NEVER allow our minds to be ensnared again.

Verne, I guess I am postulating the theory that GG was at some point in the very beginning a man used of GOD...who fell and no one was there to correct, exhort and replace. Satan is the culprit here, but so is man...blinded by our need for importance and personal gain.  Blinded by sin and delusion...GG plodded along creating a larger and larger morass of screwed up lives and abused christians until finally the bubble burst and the past sins overtook him and his hand picked "yes" men.

That is a far different situation than a purely evil movement initiated by and with a pre-acknowledged allegiance with Lucifer. I know that at times in my experience at Fullerton and in the midwest that truly GOD spoke and influenced my life. After all, we were lead to leave by the SPIRIT of GOD.  

Unless others have first hand knowledge or evidence of a "pre-concieved"  intent to decieve or  the premeditated creation of a Christian Counterfiet Assembly way back in 1967-69....I would continue to suggest this was at one time a genuine movement of GOD spawned by the JESUPUSA movement. ( Jesus people USA  movement occured in southern CA during the drug and counter culture revolution that has been recorded by prudent and recognized church historians the country over.)

It does perplex the mind though...? Does anyone out there have any further insights into this matter. Brent....hmmmm? It is a rather important point to clarify...

Peace...

[AaronC]

God's use of talking asses isn't limited to Balaam's time.  

[Scott McCumber]

Brad,

No details, but I'm positive your dad knows: George was disciplined by the group he sprang from (Brethren, maybe), for being unentreatable among other things. He was told he was not ready for his own ministry.

I would put forth the opposite theory: That George was attracted to religion because it satisfied his need to dominate and control. I imagine that early on he did not consciously realize this (maybe he did), but using his gifts of oration (yes they eroded considerably over time!) and intellect he was able to satisfy the cravings of control that he needed to validate himself. Over time this developed . . . well, you know the rest!

Scott

[brad]

Ok Scooter you get a big huge A+ in psychology from me. Sounds most probable.  It really does bug ya though to think about how much we all believed in him and the Assembly at one point...makes me feel kinda slow...ya know?

The talking Asses thing I wont comment on...

Seriously though...the point that could and should be remembered is that obvious gifts are NOT signs of GODS blessing.

Peace.

[Scott McCumber]

OK, I originally addressed that post to "Buford" and then backspaced and typed "Brad!" And here you are bringing up the Scooter thing!

By the way - my daughter is "Scooter" these days!

[lemonlime]

yes mr. Scotty. You get a cookie for thinking your theory through logically. it sounds like somethin i would say actually

[4Him]

The leaders are not Nazis or communists.  What I was questioning in my post was their willingness to cling to error, be man worshippers, and "kick against the pricks" of their consciences.

Of course we all did that--not just the leaders. (italics added by TS)

I heard ... and allowed ...  I am guilty.
...  I allowed the Scriptures ... to be twisted ...  I was wicked in so doing.
I saw ... and didn't dig deeply.  I am guilty.
I heard ...  I am guilty.
I didn't much fight ... I am guilty.
I was a brute to my wife.  I am guilty.
... none of this would have been possible without the complicity of the membership.
... , then we the flock were the ... enabled the deception.
We are all guilty.  May God have mercy on us.

Aaron's post closely parallels my own perspective of my own complicity in this evil.  This is why I harbor no bitterness toward the "perpetrators" and will not withdraw into the victims box/coffin.  When we see this, and turn, we can begin to live in the true liberty Christ has already provided for us.

[Ken Fuller]

Something I've always been curious about and wondering if anyone knows any details.

George ALWAYS, nearly every time he spoke, mentioned how he didn't get his PHD because God somehow told him "I never asked you to do this and I don't want it"

It always came across to me that he was bitter over it.  It seemed like he was trying to let us know he COULD have had it, boasting in his 'spiritutality', that he gave it up for God.

But I always thought he seemed bitter over it to this day.

Just curious if anybody has any insight how "God told him he didn't want it"

[Kay]

Hi John,
I was led to think that GG had a Masters and was in a PhD program. A close relative of mine was in a PhD Philosophy track at the University that GG claims he went to. They were the same age. I asked GG if he knew my relative I got a strange vague shrug......hmmmm now I know why.