God brought me here.

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings everyone:

Restoration doesn't necessarily mean that the system will continue, altered or not. Neither does it mean that leaders keep their position as leaders over others. The main concern is that the wounded and the deceived get healthy again, and that the abusers (and the abusive system) are stopped. God has been blessing this whole time in the healthy churches that are out there for the last 30 years while this group has been working its evil in people's lives. If individuals lose faith this is a great loss. If the assemblies all fold, know that the Church continues and God's designs aren't thwarted by this. We're talking here about real evil that happened to real people. Don't be too pious about this in your criticism of the others, who finally have their chance to speak their mind. It is early and you are still on the inside looking out.
Respectfully,
Sebastian Andrew

[brad]

Dear John1335,

I am going to hesistantly voice my opinion regarding your comments on "God being able to work and bless despite George"....of course he can. But the issue here is very simple....WHAT IS GOD TELLING YOU TO DO? .The Assembly has a history of usurping our own spiritual leading...THAT is the point.

 HE WILL get your attention, my attention, George's attention etc....HIS LOVE IS PAINFUL  stuff...to quote my favorite christian artist Rich Mullins ... "THE RECKLESS RAGING FURY THAT WE CALL THE LOVE OF GOD !"

 I believe God wants you to struggle with him, to trust him and to find out for yourself what GOD is leading you to do, be or act...if you don't HE WILL GET YOUR ATTENTION! Beware, he is truly willing to mess with us and our perceptions, our foolishness and our deceptions...The Assembly is in serious trouble and it will take a tremendous "restructuring" for God to bless in the manner many of us have learned to appreciate.

From what I have observed and seen on this site, the Geftackys family and the leadership have a tremendous amount to answer for. NOT TO ME, but to JEHOVAH. Until those issues are dealt with, God's blessing is going to be individual...not corporate. He does honor his word and our hearts, but your leadership is in serious need of accountability.

I want to close in a George quote that he used against many who left....and now seems so ironic. "Having a form of Godlieness, but denying the power thereof". I can think of no better answer to your question about God's blessing to the assembly.

May you find the saviour and trust his leading...wherever it may be and however crazy it must seem. I hold no grudge or anger towards George...GOD has plenty to do with me...but I am not claiming to be an Apostle or leading thousands of christians into bondage. GOD's word is clear," unto whom much has been given...much will be required."

Peace

[Kimberley Tobin]

John1335 and Laura:

Look at the teachings that are in your respective localities.  It doesn't matter if "George" isn't there.  HIS TEACHINGS ARE.  You do not understand how the assembly works if you think George's teachings are not rampant in the ministry.  THE ASSEMBLY IS GEORGE.  He started this work, he placed these men and women who are in EVERY LOCALITY in power.  Problems with the ministry (this is NOT an exhaustive list) include:

1)  Meeting attendance that is required.  Guilt is placed upon members for not having an adequate excuse (extended family events are not conisdered an adequate excuse.)  Doorkeepers are required to call anywere from 2-4 men if they will not be in attendance (the number depends on how much they are trying to harass the brother calling.)

2)  Training homes.  I've lived in them, so I know of what I speak.  This is not a healthy christian life.  This is like living with Mom and Dad.  You are to grow up in Christ.  The Holy Spirit is to be the one you are taught to be led by and hear His voice guiding you into all truth.  Not being controlled by outside sources in order to appear holy or to refrain from sin.  This is idolatry.  It is placing your trust in man for the deliverance from sin, instead of where your trust SHOULD be placed - solely on the Lord Jesus Christ and his work on the cross, the Holy Spirit working in you as you grow and mature in Christ.

3)  Conditional Inheritance - we are taught in the assembly that once you have received Christ you are saved.  But you then must go on to be sanctified (which is a half truth.)  All Christians must go on to be sanctified.  The half truth is that your sanctification depends on YOU.  YOU must do the work of faithfulness, obedience, etc, etc, in order to bring about sanctification in the assembly.  That is not the truth of the bible.  Christ has done EVERYTHING to bring you all the way to glory, His work alone is the only thing we can trust in the bring about sanctification.  Being an "overcomer" is taught.  Only those who "overcome" will be rewarded, this is what is taught in the assembly.  The only one who ever "overcame" was Christ.  And it is his FINISHED work on the cross which, when God looks at me, he sees His Sons FINISHED OVERCOMING WORK.  That is how I will be "overcoming".  Please get the difference!

There are more.  This is just the cream at the top, John1335 and Laura. Please consider what you have aligned yourself with.  These (and others) are dangerous teachings.  This is what produced the fruit we are seeing now.  This fruit IS in EVERY LOCALITY.  Yours is no exception.  You just aren't aware of it.  There will be more that will be exposed, believe me, if the assembly does not take seriously the work the Lord is doing in his house today.

[H]

Excellent post, Kimberley! I especially liked the part where you said "Christ has done EVERYTHING to bring you all the way to glory, His work alone is the only thing we can trust ..." Amen, sister!

It is a real joy to see how the Lord has been working in and through you and Greg since you left "the assembly"! You seem to have come so far in such a short time. I pray that He will do a similar work in many others. Keep up the good work!

Love in Christ,
H

[Joseph Reisinger]

Dear Kimberly and Sebastian,
I believe that both of you would agree with Sebastians statement, "It is early and you are still on the inside looking out."
I realize that both of you have seen great missuse and abuse of God's word and God's people in the assemblies with which you have been involved. (and other assemblies as well).  Now from the outside, you are able to clearly see just how bad these things were.  I do not argue with what you see.  May I make an entreaty though?
Just as we are still "on the inside looking out", are you not "on the outside looking in"?  Your view of the assemblies is predicated (mostly) on what you last saw when you left, and bolstered by what has come out about the Geftakys family. Is this true?
I take for an example, some of the cases given by Kimberly.  "Meeting attendance that is required."  "Doorkeepers are required to call anywere from 2-4 men if they will not be in attendance "  " Training homes...This is not a healthy christian life"
These examples may be exactly what you experienced when you were in the assembly.  They may be what some are still experiencing.  They do not fit with my experience, however.  I am a doorkeeper - and when I must miss a meeting, I attempt to let somebody know - maybe my roomate, or one of our elders - simply because I have a responsiblity in practical ways with certain meetings. (i.e. setup, greeting saints, etc.)  I do not feel guilty about missing a meeting, nor do I get any guilt-trips from others.  This was not always the case here in Chicago, but is an example of ways in which things are different from your experience.  I was in a training home for four years. In these four years that God changed my life.  Taught me what it meant to be real.  Taught me what it meant to be faithful.  Not because of standards, (which were not nearly as strict and overbearing as I often hear) nor because of some mystical "training home" truth.  It was because  of God's grace teaching me through the longsuffering and wisdom that He had given to those in the Grant household.  This is a far cry from "being controlled by outside sources in order to appear holy or to refrain from sin."

I do not know how to respond to your last point yet, Kimberly, because it is something that God is speaking to me about right now - and I believe to this gathering in Chicago as well.  Thank you for bringing it up though.

My entreaty to you both is to understand that God is working - and that just as he has led you to fellowship in a different gathering than myself, does not mean that he has not told me (or John1335 or Laura....) to remain our respective gatherings.  Please bear this in mind - and continue to pray that God would continue to change these assemblies that they may be a clearer representation of Him.

The assembly must necessarily not be George.  If it is, or I should say, continues to represent him, it will dissolve.  Even without your encouragement.

[Joseph Reisinger]

Kimberly,
One more thing.  I do not want to discourage you (not that it would anyway) from posting what you believe to be issues that this ministry must deal with.  
I would be especially grateful, though, if you began to delve into what is under the "cream at the top" teachings.  I believe it would be profitable if we were not just told of there being such a volume of "dangerous teachings" that exist, but that they might be clearly brought into the light and explained.

[d3z]

I think in some places, there was a somewhat softening of some of the strictness.  You would probably not be directly reprimanded for missing a meeting, and the training homes here had greatly reduced in structure.

However, the pressure to make every meeting was still very much in place.  All it did was become much more subtle.  Even though no one would state anything, maybe not even preach about it (although that did happen), it was clear that everyone was to go to every meeting.  I think most honestly felt this was the right thing.

[Kimberley Tobin]

Thank you Joseph, and you are right.  I am Irish to the core.  I am very vocal, I believe it is part of my contribution to the body of Christ.  Thank you for your encouragement, and based on another dear brother in Christ requesting the same type of document, I will be compiling just that and will post it as soon as I can.

[brad]

Joseph,

I am sure you cannot remember me, but I am familiar with your father and family. Your postings are bringing back many memories...ones I thought were long lost.

You are doing fine my young brother...Christ will direct you and lead you if you seek his leading. Things may well be improved in Chicago...and if so, wonderful. There are still major issues to be resolved, and more revelations to come. Wait on the Lord, and be patient enough to let his quiet calm voice nudge you...he will.

I had a similar issue to work through over 15 years ago when my father and mother ( Gerald and Marilynn Mathias) left the assembly, it was GOD who spoke to me to trust and honor my family...even when at the time I thought George was GOD's leader for the assembly.  I trusted the Spirits leading to honor my father ( who I knew was a Godly man) and to let go of my past and to embrace my new future as an ex-assembly kid with no real understanding of the issues really at hand. I felt torn, unable to make "everyone" happy...but GOD was clear...he told me exactly what he wanted...and I obeyed. Now things are much easier to grasp, and I am grateful. Essentially, I had to choose between the familiar and the call to step out in faith...( I'm not saying GOD is telling you to do the same)

Let GOD lead, many of us have painful and open wounds yet to heal...and would "whisk" you out of the situation. Not always the best, for we cannot speak for GOD or even hope to know his will for you.

My final thought on this....don't get caught up in finding out every contentious issue of doctrine or action between old and new assembly issues. Pull your mind back, let GOD softly lead you where he wants you to be.

Praying.

B.

[Joseph Reisinger]

Brad,
Thank you so much for posting what I couldn't have said better myself, though I see the same thing.

"There are still major issues to be resolved" - you're absolutely right.

"Let GOD lead, many of us have painful and open wounds yet to heal...and would "whisk" you out of the situation. "  I think this is really at the heart of why I post.  I understand that these wounds exist, and in ways which I myself cannot empathically realize. (hmm.. is empathically even a word?  Well, if not, I just checked with GG and he made it one.)
I think that your point, though, is the reason which I post.  There may be dangers in the way this gathering thinks, that I am unnable to see.. that may be clearer to those outside.  (in fact, I am certain of this) May God give me clearer vision for I cannot in good concience leave to see them while he calls me to remain.

"don't get caught up in finding out every contentious issue of doctrine or action between old and new assembly issues"  This is a good point.  I do not want to get caught up in this.  My main reason for addressing those issues which I have, is that I am searching for the root, or crystalization (as one has put it) of these things.  Kimberly, one piece of advice, that will make your document most profitable to all - please focus on what you consider to be this root or roots of bondage.  God is working to set all of his people free from bondage - no matter where they gather.  He always works from the inside out.  External doctrines or rules will wither away if their source of nutrient is destroyed.

Cast upon His mercy,
Joseph

[jesusfreak]

For what it's worth, it is my understanding that the men in leadership in the Chicago assembly were the only ones to stand up to George's heretical teaching on seventh day creation. Is it possible ( I have always respected Roger Grant and do not know where he stands on all this) that the men in that assembly are cut from a different cloth? It is possible the experience of the saints there was different.

I have grown up in the Chicago Assembly for the entirity of my life.  I have a deep seated respect for Roger, Terry, Mark, and many of the other dear brethern here.  Their actions, from what I have seen over my years here, have always been with much prayer and consideration of the Lords Will.   I am not sure what you mean about "experience of the saints", if you could explain what you mean, i would be glad to offer my experiences here as an AK.

[Nancy Newswander]

Joseph:
I can assure you that when you were the assigned doorkeeper for a given night, and you were in the training home, comments were made about you not choosing to go to the meeting (for whatever reason, valid or not).  Comments were made all the time about you decisions - comments that came from the very people that were training you.  The gist of the comments were to let me know that you did not yet grasp the understanding of what it meant to be faithful and responsible.  Voices were lowered and you were talked about by the people that you lived with.  I would only coincidently be at that home for whatever reason, and had no intention of hearing about your "struggles".  But I would leave that home knowing about your "struggles".  Its not so innocent as you make it sound.  Always a judgement was made, and values placed on you, that were communicated to others.  Unless things have drastically changed since the end of October when I left, you are a part of an unhealthy group.
And yes, the clouds lift when you leave.  Its amazing how clearly I can see the issues and the threads of unhealthy thinking that permeate the assembly.
The Chicago assembly my not be as "bad" as some places, but the core issues are alive and well there.

[sue xander]

I agree Nancy!  This is true!  Sad as it is......it is true!

[Joseph Reisinger]

Nancy,
Yes, that is the sin of gossip.  I myself am guilty of the same.  It is wrong and clearly condemned by God.  Please forgive me for participating in gossip in anyway ever about you.  Please forgive me for ever gossiping to you about someone else.  I love you - and believe that God is doing a great work of liberation in your life.  
I can also vouch for what I know in this gathering - that God is also setting us free.  
One thing that is true though.. is that I did struggle while there.  Most likely, what was said about me was true. (not that it would make gossiping any better).  And, like I said - God used those very people in that household, to bring about change in my life that is absolutely, clearly, without doubt, for the good.
One other thing.  I really believe you - that the clouds lift when you leave, that issues become very clear.  Please trust God to believe that those clouds are being lifted though.. even here, even now.
One thing I was taught from Gus Dodorico before kids camp last year... is to always believe God for a child - never to give up on him/her - never to act as though the way they acted last time, will be the way they will act this time.  I ask you to believe God for us as a gathering.  Believe that God will lead us to stay or leave - as he wills.  Believe that God is beginnning a new work, a work of repentance, of change, of light.
Could this be?
It would take a miracle.

[Tony Rosete]

Verne,

I was there in Chicago when George first came around with his 7th day rantings.  There were quite a few of us who were less than pleased with this nonsense coming from the pulpit unchallenged.  There were also many who didn't really agree, but didn't really think it was that important - it's just GG being GG.  And if you can believe it, there were many others that were starting to even agree.  I on the other hand had a huge problem with it because:

a)  Understanding the Old Testament Sabbath was paramount to my understanding of New Testament Sabbath rest, which I believe is paramount to understanding how to walk with the Lord.

b)  GG's manipulation of the scriptures and violation of proper exegesis (or just plain common sense for that matter) is the exact kind of thing that allows serious cults to try and use our own bibles to tell us that Jesus isn't really God and many other blasphemous things.

I met with GG myself to ask him about all this at the encouragement of leadership, which I agreed with, as where better to hear it than from the horses mouth himself.  I was permitted to go with him on his walk for the morning, and he talked me through his method of madness, without his bible in hand, and although he was gracious to me, I was struck that I jammed into his normal routine to discuss something that was causing me to leave.

Right before I left, largely due to this heresy, I was told that leadership had met with GG, but that they couldn't really tell him not to teach that stuff.  I thought to myself "yes you can, and should".  

So to say that Chicago "stood up" to GG with regards to this teaching would be an overstatement.  However, in fairness, they did at least have the courage to talk with him about it.