God brought me here.

[Luke Robinson]

Alright, my homeboy big brothah,
I didn't know you were from St. Louis!  Actually I think I've seen you in some of the old pics as just a baby.  Well, I am starting to get a whole new perspective on the people who write on this website.  Yes, I still see some things that need to change, about how people treat others, and how all the assemblies are viewed, but I understand that a lot people really have a care(like you said) for the people in the assemblies and don't want to see these things happen again.  God only knows.  

Also, on the Christian music topic, I like a lot of stuff, especially DC Talk.  They are a great band and I have all their CDs(except for the dumb rap ones).  I also like a lot of different secular bands such as Lifehouse and Sister Hazel.  WOAH!! WATCH OUT!! A GUY IN THE ASSEMBLIES LIKES SECULAR MUSIC!!  Just kidding.  But there is a lot of music out there that I really like.  I like the old school rock, like Simon and Garfunkle and the Beatles.  I like all kinds of music, from rock to classical.  OH! Yeah, a few of us in St. Louis like to make movies, and we have made a few pretty good music videos.  Who knows?  Maybe one day we can make a big scale movie!  It is all pretty good.  But I still have my eyes on the goal, so don't everyone think that music is ruining me.  There are many, many more bands that I like but I will refrain for now.  God Bless.

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson

[Laura]

(except for the dumb raps ones)

Luke I'm appauled you are no DC Talk fan!  

 

[Phil Strangman]

Scott,

You asked for an "alternative". Well, most people when they read this will consider me a nutcase as they probably have not heard of 80% of the people on this list, but that's OK.

Poor Old Lu                                                    Kirk Franklin
The Prayer Chain                                             KJ52
Starflyer 59                                                    Raphi
The Violet Burning                                           Sunny Day
Black Eyed Sceva                                                 Real Estate
Earthsuit (though I don't like that name)                (their lead
Ester Drang                                                          singer
The Choir                                                              became a
Third Day                                                              Christian)
The 77s                                                          Fold Zandura
Soul Junk                                                        Havalina
Glenn Kaiser Band
Remedy
Adam Again
The Lost Dogs
Seven Head Division
The World Inside
Excelsior (gospel)

[garylwilson]

To ALL and especially Tom Maddox

Tom I just read a number of posts you have out there.  Just finished with number 49.  Brother I haven't found anything you have said to be offensive.  I appreciate the balance in what you are saying.

What is the hardest thing for a person to admit?  Would it be I was deceived.  I don't know?  But that seems like a pretty big pill to swallow.  
I do appreciate what I have been reading on this site.  I sense some people have an axe to grid.  I sense some is reactionary.  But that is okay.  It is their reaction and their axe.  I am trying to filter out the truth as I go along regardless of how it is dispensed.  Many others have very well thought out posts.

I do sense you have a real care for God's people.  May God continue you to bless His people.

I have several things on my heart.
I must admit as I write this post there is a sorrow upon my heart.
Mark says a house divided against itself cannot stand.  Those are pretty harse words.  I do believe there are many in Fullerton that want to see recovery.  But I see invisible lines that have been drawn.
It seems there is the we and thems.  The leadership has stepped down and now there is so much mistrust.  I'm not saying there shouldn't be a watchfullness and a carefullness.  But how can there ever be wholeness without a total clearing and forgiveness?

The more I read what you have posted the more I am inclined to agree with the need for outside help.  I believe it is deeper than teaching - I'm not trying to minimize that.  But I think it goes to the heart and soul of every person left.  We have a prayer meeting tonight.  May God give me the courage to utter the need for outside help.  We need healing.  We need to be able to let go and trust God for each others lives.  Please Pray for us.

I think I orginally put some posts out here with the intent to show not all of us are mindless, non feeling puppets.  I wanted others to know that there are still some of us left that have freely chosen to be there.
Probably some wounded pride mixed with some good intentions.
I still believe that.  But the bottom line is my heart is breaking from what I see transpiring.
"He who comes to me, I will in wise cast out"  
 
To all:  I have enjoyed so many of the posts out there.  Some of you have a wonderful sense of humor.  To those of you that have been abused, offended or wounded in any way, it may seem trite but your pain has touched my heart.  Much of what has been said has been searching, humbling, and instructive.

To those that I have had chance to reconnect with or to converse with on this bulletin board.  Thank you.

God bless you
I won't be looking at this board for several days.  I need a rest.
Feel free to send your comments to gary@shurflo.com

Lord bless you

[outdeep]

I can testify personally of the experience of suddenly realizing how steeped I was in Assembly thinking.

It happened on a Sunday afternoon.  It was about the time that Steve Irons had left and there was much damage control preaching.  Every time we came to the word “elder” in the book of Judges, we found George preaching against weak elders who “abandon the flock”.

Steve leaving was the biggest shakeup to date.  The walls of the testimony were damaged and instead of the enemy coming in like a flood, many of the captives were trying to escape.  On that particular Sunday morning, Mark Miller got up and shared ministry on “scriptural reasons for leaving”.  The thrust of the message was that you could leave if you are sent out into the work or moving to where another assembly is.  Any other reason is being devisive.  We should therefore mark the devisive people and avoid them.

I was so distraught that I literally could not make myself go to the Sunday afternoon meeting.  My feelings were that even going to the movies would be more edifying.  

I didn’t go to the movies.  Instead, I knocked on the door of Tom Maddux who had exited the Assembly some time earlier.  I certainly knew who Tom was having lived next door at one time in Steve Iron’s house, but I didn’t know Tom that well.  

When he answered the door, Tom gave a look of “well, here’s another one” and invited me in.

We talked but he knew my story as it has been told a hundred times before.

At one point, I questioned about the verse in Matthew that said “Where two or three are gathered unto my name, there I am into their midst.”  I had always been taught that it isn’t a matter of two or three getting together to pray and Jesus is suddenly there.  Isn’t the verb an action word implying the active work of God gathering a testimony unto him?

Tom rolled his eyes and said, “Give me a break!”  He then put some coins on the table and we had the following conversation:

Tom:  Gather the coins together.
Me:  Huh?
Tom:  Just gather the coins together.
Me:  (I gathered the coins)  OK.
Tom:   Are the coins gathered?
Me:  Yes.
Tom:  (Tom scattered the coins).  OK, now I’ll gather the coins together.
Me:  OK
Tom:  Are the coins gathered?
Me:  Yes.
Tom:  What’s the difference?

Suddenly, it felt like scales fell from my eyes.  I realized that in the plain English of the verse, it was speaking about people gathering together in Christ’s name.  It had no reference as to who did the gathering or what manner in which the gathering took place.  Everything else was a theological grid that was read into the verse as a result of Assembly assumptions and mindset.

So I echo Tom’s concern.  It is important that you deliberately expose yourself to outside source material and try to understand where the authors are coming from.  

Brent told me that he is going to post my article on “getting back to the book of Acts” soon.  I think this may help you deal with some of the presuppositions unwittingly made in the Assembly.  Most of the things in that article was based on a book that revolutionized my thinking about the Bible called “How to Read the Bible for all its worth” by Gordon Fee.  This book discusses some basic ground rules and restraints we need to follow when seeking to interpret the Bible.  When you see how historical narratives were spiritualized, parables were allegorized, side events were made into binding church policy, epistles were decontextualized, Psalms were stripped of their poetic genre and Prophetic Scriptures were turned away from their intended audience and applied to the wayward soul, you will understand why we read so much but understood so little.

Also, as Gary Wilson reminded us – it is not all doctrinal.  Get involved in relationships in a non-leadership position such as an Adult Sunday School, music ministry, small group, etc.  Learn to be friends, enjoy people, and watch the example of people who because godly without the Assembly’s help.

I would ask Tom, Mark Campbell and others (who have been out of the Assembly at least five years) to suggest books and resources that have been key to clearly challenging the false assumptions we had made for years while trapped behind the Great Wall of Testimony.

[David Mauldin]

Dave I remember that message on "scriptual way to leave" by Mark as if it were yesterday.  What a  drag it was to learn from the scriptures that I couldn't attend a different church in the will of God.

[David Mauldin]

Laura Just read your post  (boy this website is getting too big)  Anyway   Let me first validate your experience in coming into fellowship.  Yes for you at this time it genuinly works! But Just like Tom said we all felt the way you do when we first came into fellowship.  For me in 1980 It was great to be in the midst of a group of my peers.  They gave me the family I needed so badly. It was great to be able to have a scriptual answer for every issue. It was great to have the burden of reality lifted off of me as I found my lifes calling at that moment.  It was so clear cut simple. Yet as I got older the complexities of life were making things more and more difficult to just accept by "faith"  I honestly feel that some people stay in the assembly for so long because just as it is for you now it continues to work for them. The fact that my wife left me and my family died off has forced me to seek answers that couldn't be found in the assembly.  For this I am grateful.

[Jim Haan]

I finally read through this string today, and I've seen some very powerful messages from some of you.  I was wondering, Tom M, Greg T, Scott M, GaryWilson, what kind of churches are you involved with and have been involved with since leaving "fellowship"?  
Jim  

[CC]

I agree that the Lord has brought me here.  I haven't been involved with the Assembly very long, as a matter of fact, only  Three or Four months.  I was losted.  Looking for a place of fellowship that would resept me and act like christians should. I wanted a place where ...(to quote as song) everybody knows your name.  The first day I went, I was hooked.  I couldn't believe that there were people who cared about the Lord and each other.  It was like one big family.  Everytime I go, I get something out of it.  I further my walk with the Lord everday because of the people and God.  One thing I learned and I would like to share it the fact that God gives us what we can handle. That has been my life's lesson.  God knows the outcome of all of this.  The only thing we can do is to pray for God to do good with this.  We will be so much stronger.  Laura, God brought me here to.  Although I never really got a chance to see or really hear George, I can see the impact.  I am not affected directly because I just did know him.  I still trust that this could only lead to good things.
God Bless.
CC

[CathyG]

With respect to the abuses of leadership, I think Ezekiel 34 is especially appropriate. Isn't it wonderful to remember that the Lord Himself is the True Shepherd and He will take care of His sheep!

H

H,  
How insightful.  I am new to the BB and reading through this thread I found this quite interesting.  I read Ezekiel 34 the day I received a phone call regarding the excommunication of GG.  See, God is definitely in the business of proving His Word.

Cathy