Canada: "the Great White North saints"

[lenore]

 ;)January 23 Lord's Day.

JUST STARTING A CONVERSATION GOING.

OKAY WHO IS MISSING THE NHL???

[al Hartman]

;)January 23 Lord's Day.

JUST STARTING A CONVERSATION GOING.

OKAY WHO IS MISSING THE NHL???

Columbus, Ohio built a terrific new arena to bring the Blue Jackets to life a few short years ago.  The "Arena District," consisting of upscale restaurants, nightclubs, shops and apartments quickly sprang up around it.  That whole section of downtown Columbus is like a ghost town this season-- the merchants are trying everything to survive.  I'm not a huge hockey fan, and even less a fan of greed.  I do hate to see what this season has done to the economy of hockey-dependent businesses & the families they represent, as well as to the sport itself...

[Oscar]

Al,

Once I went to see a fight...and a hockey game broke out.  

Thomas Maddux

[Tony]

All of the good hockey players on the American teams, are (or is it were ) Canadian eh!!

Marcia

Good???  

Romans 3:12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

...for it is written...
<grinn>

I'm not happy about the loss of the NHL season but I am pleased to be less one distraction.

FYI, My favorite Blue is U.S born!

--Tony

[Recovering Saint]

Article from CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/12/09/canada.gay.ap/index.html

TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- In a landmark opinion, Canada's Supreme Court said Thursday that proposed legislation allowing gay marriage is constitutional, but the government cannot force religious officials to perform unions against their beliefs.


--------------------

I think the protection for religions is temporary because the court said there are no precedent cases to use. What do you bet lawyers are lining up to test the religious right to refuse to perform gay marriages as discriminatory toward gays.

Now it is back to the House of Commons and it looks like there is more support for Gay Marriage.

This is historic in proportions and a sad day for Canada. One good thing though is that the Court refused to rule on whether the traditional definition of marriage is Consititutional. It is the politicians who must rule they said. Now they can't hide behind the court they must stand up and be counted.

Please pray.

Hugh

Here is an update.

If you are concerned about giving same-sex unions full equal standing and rights along with the name Marriage please read this. We need prayer from you now. Similar to the arguement about conducting a war on terrorism away from the US it is this war against traditional moral values that rages in Canada and that will soon be upon you in a greater way if these changes to our way of life are instituted. Think of it as a Prayer Defence Shield. The reason  for the urgency is because the Prime Minister and the Opposition Leader are making sweeping statements which very well could be ended with Canada making changes to the Consititution about this issue.

The Conservative Opposition leader is defending the traditional definition of marriage as "One man and one woman".

_______________________________________________________________

From http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/01/25/lawyer-samesex050125.html

Dozens of constitutional experts have sent an open letter to Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, accusing him of not being honest with Canadians over the same-sex marriage debate.



From http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/01/25/liberalcaucus050125.html

And now for the ruling Liberal Party whose leader Prime Minister Paul Martin says legalizing same-sex marriage is a matter of upholding minority rights

We have a Catholic response. Where are the Evangelicals on this?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1106419749505_51

Cdn. Catholic archbishop denounces same-sex bill
CTV.ca News Staff

For the second time in a week, a Catholic archbishop has written an open letter to the Prime Minister Paul Martin protesting the Liberal government's plans to legalize same-sex marriages.

Marc Ouellet, the archbishop of Quebec and primate of Canada's Catholic church, warns Martin that this legislation "threatens to unleash nothing less than cultural upheaval".

"At the risk of being judged politically correct, we need to recall that the bill under discussion is offensive to the moral and religious sensibility of a great number of citizens, both Catholic and non-Catholic," Ouellet writes in the letter released Friday, the Toronto Star reported.

"We therefore find ourselves at a turning point in the evolution of Canadian society, and the bill announced by the government threatens to unleash nothing less than a cultural upheaval whose negative consequences are still impossible to predict."

Toronto's Catholic archbishop, Aloysius Ambrozic also wrote an open letter to Martin earlier this week, urging him to delay the legislation that is expected this spring, and to maintain the traditional definition of marriage.

But Justice Minister Irwin Cotler dismissed Ambrozic's call for a delay.

"Rights are rights are rights," Cotler told The Globe and Mail in response to Ambrozic's request.

"If we've got 12 prohibited grounds of discrimination under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we can't just cherry pick and say, 'Okay, 11 of those which deal with discrimination on the grounds of race, religion, national and ethnic origin, gender and the like, they're okay. But when it comes to sexual orientation, well, we're not going to respect that one.'"

The open letter came amid a same-sex debate that crossed continents.

From China on Friday, Martin said he is willing to call an election over same-sex rights after Conservative Party leader Stephen Harper said this legislation would lead to the legalization of polygamy.

"I just cannot conceive how anybody can say that and not understand just how ridiculous that he must look," Martin told reporters in Beijing, adding that the laws against polygamy will not change.

"As far as I'm concerned it will always be against the law."


Any comments

Hugh

[Recovering Saint]

Hi

Same sex marriage, should we debate this here? The state in Canada says the
church has no right debating it in the public forum. Stay quiet in your little building on the corner and let us tell you what you can or cannot do.

_____________________________________________________________

Friday, January 28, 2005

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=58f6f41c-0ebf-4b16-9e7a-afe13f3ecb44

Stay out of marriage debate, church told
Same-sex law not your business, Pettigrew argues, but archbishop insists he can say what he wants
 
Elizabeth Thompson and Anne Dawson in Fredericton, and Bob Harvey in Ottawa
The Ottawa Citizen

______________________________________________________________

I hope you are paying attention to this. You may think that this is unimportant but this is the tip of the iceberg. The Church has started to meddle in SECULAR/HUMANISTIC areas. Now we see the beginning of a persecution on the basis of beliefs in NORTH AMERICA. While pretending to defend freedom of religion and freedom of speech they are defining what where and when we can speak and exercise our faith.

This is it everyone the beginning of an era of great persecution of those who dare to stand for what the Bible teaches. We can talk about the lack of religous freedom in China but look at this it is happening before our eyes. We are losing our religious freedoms right now, right here in NORTH AMERICA.

Please pray we need the Lord to help us. What to pray I don't even know just bring it before the Lord and say it is in your hands Lord help us see the way you want us to go.

I sense that believers are afraid of this issue because the media and special interest groups have painted everyone who disagrees with them as INTOLERANT or BIGGOTED. To argue about biblical reasons I believe is good for us as believers to understand but the world does not see the Bible as a legitimate source for information regarding its morals and values. Remember we are to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Again the answer lies in prayer.

Hugh

[vernecarty]

Hi

Same sex marriage, should we debate this here? The state in Canada says the
church has no right debating it in the public forum. Stay quiet in your little building on the corner and let us tell you what you can or cannot do.

_____________________________________________________________

Friday, January 28, 2005

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=58f6f41c-0ebf-4b16-9e7a-afe13f3ecb44

Stay out of marriage debate, church told
Same-sex law not your business, Pettigrew argues, but archbishop insists he can say what he wants
 
Elizabeth Thompson and Anne Dawson in Fredericton, and Bob Harvey in Ottawa
The Ottawa Citizen

______________________________________________________________

I hope you are paying attention to this. You may think that this is unimportant but this is the tip of the iceberg. The Church has started to meddle in SECULAR/HUMANISTIC areas. Now we see the beginning of a persecution on the basis of beliefs in NORTH AMERICA. While pretending to defend freedom of religion and freedom of speech they are defining what where and when we can speak and exercise our faith.

This is it everyone the beginning of an era of great persecution of those who dare to stand for what the Bible teaches. We can talk about the lack of religous freedom in China but look at this it is happening before our eyes. We are losing our religious freedoms right now, right here in NORTH AMERICA.

Please pray we need the Lord to help us. What to pray I don't even know just bring it before the Lord and say it is in your hands Lord help us see the way you want us to go.

I sense that believers are afraid of this issue because the media and special interest groups have painted everyone who disagrees with them as INTOLERANT or BIGGOTED. To argue about biblical reasons I believe is good for us as believers to understand but the world does not see the Bible as a legitimate source for information regarding its morals and values. Remember we are to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Again the answer lies in prayer.

Hugh

The esteemed governor of Illinois just signed into law a provision forbidding descrimination on the basis of sexual orientation...etc, etc etc.
How long do you think it will be before these conspirators launch their first lawsuit at some local church? Get ready...!
Pray for the leadership of God's gatherings everywhere.
You should have heard Erwin Lutzer speak on this matter at Moody Church.
He literally got a standing ovation after the message.
Too many men of God have already compromised on this issue.
But that is the nature of the world today is it not? Compromise....
Verne
p.s please pray for Dr. James Dobson. Those interested in advancing a godless homosexual agenda are viciously attacking him for alerting parents to their shenanigans. Make no mistake about it. They want the hearts and minds of our children.
Better yet, send Dr. Dobson a letter of support and let him know that you are standing with him. Get off your half-moons...!

[al Hartman]

Hugh,

I honestly haven't known what to add to this thread.  I just copied your last three posts to several saints who I know will pray and will pass the news along to others.

None of us can afford to disregard these events or to take them lightly.  We must pray, and we must speak to others about them.

In Christ,
al

[lenore]

This way email to me by a church board deacon which I forwarded to you.  This is for all Canadian members of this board to take note and act.  And for all others to pray for God to take care of this. This is the entire email in full, to show you the campaign that is being waged.
Lenore
-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Friend,

For the last 2 months we have been researching the many different "solutions" to strike down the Same-sex marriage law that Prime Minister Martin wants to railroad through parliament. We have finally found what we believe to be the most effective plan - "Convince the politicians that they will lose their job if they vote against the will of the majority". As simple as this sounds, in reality it is very complicated to do effectively on a national level.

We have a plan that will work!

Undoubtedly you've heard our politicians and the media talk about how the majority of Canadians support same-sex marriage and that it is the &#8220;right thing to do.&#8221; Our Prime Minister has even threatened that he will call an election on the issue.

The fact is the Government, media and gay advocacy groups want Canadians to think that those who support the definition of &#8220;one man and one woman&#8221; are a minority in this country.

TO ACCOMPLISH THIS, THEY ARE RUNNING A "CAMPAIGN OF MISINFORMATION."

We need to work together to counteract their efforts.  This is how we are going to begin to do it...

There has been a survey completed that the media refuses to acknowledge.   Why? Because it clearly shows that 60% of Canadians are opposed to Same-sex marriage!

Shortly after the Supreme Court issued its advice to the Government on the same-sex marriage issue, Canadians were asked in a poll: &#8220;Do you support/oppose keeping the definition of marriage as a union of one man and one woman?&#8221;  

The survey was commissioned by Enshriine Marriage Canada and conducted by the Nordic Research Group.  It found that 59.8 per cent of Canadians support keeping the traditional definition of marriage. The survey interviewed 1023 Canadians by telephone from December 11-16, 2004 and has a margin of error of +/- 3.1 per cent.

The Government does not want Canadians to know this poll exists.

If word about this survey gets out to the general public it will be very bad news for those that are hoping to railroad this socially disastrous piece of legislation through parliament.

SO, LET&#8217;S GET THE WORD OUT!

We need you to do two things:

1)   FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO YOUR ENTIRE ADDRESS BOOK so they can see what the real numbers are and we can begin to put an end to the misinformation campaign.

- PLEASE, DO IT NOW &#8211; We need a loud unified voice!

2)   IN JUST "1-CLICK" SEND OFF YOUR OWN LETTER TO (your MP, your MLA/MPP, the Prime Minister, your Premier, your Attorney General, the Opposition leaders, the Justice Minister, Newspapers and any other contact you would like to add), TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT THE REAL NUMBERS ARE and that they will be committing political suicide if they vote for Same-sex marriage http://www.1clicklobbyist.ca/index.php?affid=216!

(All it takes is 5 minutes to make a difference!)

We are sending this email out to our 40,000 supporters and if each of them, on average, send it out to at least 20 people in their address book then this message would get out to 800,000 people.  If 10% of those people sent it out to another 20 people it would get out to another 1.6 million people. (These numbers aren't unrealistic - last year we sent out over 4.5 million personalized emails from people receiving forwarded emails and clicking to send letters.)

Do you think Mr. Martin and his social scientists would get a clear message with that many Canadians "knowing the facts?"

Thank you so much for your support - our future is counting on you!

In order to keep up our momentum we need your financial support as well. If you are able to contribute $20, $40, $60 or more to protecting the family, please click here http://www.unitedmothers.ca/donate.php

Michele Dow
United Mothers, Fathers, and Friends

       

[vernecarty]

This way email to me by a church board deacon which I forwarded to you.  This is for all Canadian members of this board to take note and act.  And for all others to pray for God to take care of this. This is the entire email in full, to show you the campaign that is being waged.
Lenore
The fact is the Government, media and gay advocacy groups want Canadians to think that those who support the definition of &#8220;one man and one woman&#8221; are a minority in this country.

TO ACCOMPLISH THIS, THEY ARE RUNNING A "CAMPAIGN OF MISINFORMATION."
     

Another common misrepresentation is the percentage of the general population homosexual activists claim. I hear even seasoned and intelligent newsmen blithely repeating the fallacious ten per cent figure.
You are certainly right. Misinformation is the name of the game. Sadly, it appears to be working quite effectively. They will ultimately win the statutory fight both in Canada and in the U.S. Merely a sign of the times...
We will just have to keep fishing in a dirty pond...
Verne            

[lenore]

February 1st

Good Morning everyone.

This morning when I woke up, and was sitting there I was thinking. Last night during our ALpha Discussion on Stop WOrrying and Start Living Topic. The subject on the same sex marriage bill came up briefly, how we questioned where is the masses in protesting this, how CHristian are comfortable to send petitions  instead of standing up and be counted.

I started writing  and the words kept flowing. I am sharing with you, unedited. I hope there room. Feedback is welcome .

I was thinking of last night discussion, when the same sex marriage bill came up.

Romans 1 verse 18 to 32 came to mind.

I then thought of  how it was in the days of Noah, and Sodom/Gomorhha
How it was so bad that God destroyed, for by water, then by fire. How was it in the days leading up to the destruction. How did it get so bad?
We the people like people of Western World so accepting of the rights of others to live their lives as they pleased, to pollution the very nature of society, invading every aspect of life, that only a few were unpolluted.
Even Lot was not exactly unpolluted by  it.  He offered his daughters to save the messengers of God. His wife couldn't turn her back on the way of life that she was used to.
Question is didn't anyone try to stop the progression of  wickedness in the gay life style in those days.

Come to modern days terminology.
Did the gays petition the courts for the right to marriage. Was there demonstration on the people of the land to stop it.
Once the bill was pass, they just threw up their hands, says it must be the will of God.
God allows this.  But a bill like this that changes his Word on the matter is never God's will.
In the old testament which is read by Jews, Muslims and Christians alike (at least should be read). The punishment for such an act is quite obvious. When the people didn't or couldn't stop the decline of moral values in God's natural order, God punished them.
Punished them quite severely.  As far as I know God hasn't punished his people for this type of crime against God since Lot. Yet Paul wrote about it to the Romans. I gather the Roman empire indulged in the gay lifestyle until it became acceptable in society. A life style the Romans became eager to protect.

Look at today society, the gay lifestyle is in every aspect of society, being flaunted in our faces every where we look. In magazines, on television, in movies, and in law makers of countries. Being promoted as normal. Any one who doesn't accept their way of life is considered intolerant.  Yet do they tolerate the ones who are trying to live a life that we believe in. A life that God wants us to live.  No.  We are to accept their choices, but do they really accept our choices. Because if they do, they wouldn't be trying so hard to shove their life style down our noses, rubbing it in, making us accept it.
Maybe Christians here are at fault here to. After all the Christian history has done a lot to taint God's message throughout the ages, that the trust in the Christian life is minimal, only a few really accept it. Why do so called Christian churches ignore Biblical truths to God's word in light of gay lifestyle? Why are certain Christian mainline churches promoting the gay lifestyle to the point where that lifestyle is at the teaching and leading end of the church. No wonder people who go to these churches, thinking they are Christian because they go to church, and if the leader of the church is saying it is okay, then it must be so.

Even in the strong churches that are evanglistic in beliefs and practices, where is the courage to stand up and be counted, willing to accept the price of society consequences to proclaim God's word. To be label intolerant, to be labelled a fanatic, to be labelled a disciple of Jesus and what Jesus is all about.
I think western Christians especially conservative types of churches, we have been taught not to rock the boat. We prayer, we sign petitions, all in the comfort of our pews.
What is the main reason? Fear.

We admire the servants of God in the past for their ability to stand in faith, despite the consequences of what society will throw their way, totally depending on God for their very lifes. Where are the hero for God today? Billy Graham! He ailing and Lord will be calling him home soon. Who is coming up behind him to rally the masses in a life totally devoted to God?  The heroes of today could be the ones who go into the war torn countries of Africa and give aid to the women who are being tortured and abused on a daily basis, or giving a face to the protest of the being forced to accept  the changes in God laws, giving the rights to for acceptance of the gay life style.

It is something I was thinking about, and the words kept pouring out of my hands.
What can I do? There is so little I can do as one person. Pray! Yes! But should there be action behind that Prayer!
Maybe I should be asking okay God ! What do you want me to do?
Then be willing to do it!
Then fear comes in to play, and say don't make it too difficult. So the question is am I really willing to ask God what do you really want me to do.

[al Hartman]

A very heartfelt and poignant article, Lenore, and you sum up the crux of the matter in closing:

What can I do? There is so little I can do as one person. Pray! Yes! But should there be action behind that Prayer!
Maybe I should be asking okay God ! What do you want me to do?
Then be willing to do it!
Then fear comes in to play, and say don't make it too difficult. So the question is am I really willing to ask God what do you really want me to do.

The very first thing we should do is the very last thing many of us will turn to:  Prayer.

We will take the position that I am saved, a new creature in Christ, therefore I can now think in heavenly ways, so my job here is to think of ways to serve the Lord.  

We don't like to ask the Lord, "What do you want me to do?" because [1] we aren't sure how to look for or expect to know His answer, and [2] we are afraid we won't like His answer.  It is much more comfortable to excuse ourselves from praying or to try to get by with minimal, nominal prayer, and to set our "God-given" minds to the task.  In so doing, we employ the same mind of flesh and the same fleshly methods that we used as non-christians-- the same tools that everyone in the world uses.

Nothing is too hard for our Lord.  He can teach us to pray, He can answer our prayers, He can instruct us in His Word, He can lead us, and He can enable us to follow.  All we have to do is ask Him and let Him, and His grace to us is sufficient for even that.

I say these things as a student; certainly not as a master.  If you do pray, please pray for me, that I will truly learn these things...

In Christ,
al

[sfortescue]

The fact is the Government, media and gay advocacy groups want Canadians to think that those who support the definition of &#8220;one man and one woman&#8221; are a minority in this country.

TO ACCOMPLISH THIS, THEY ARE RUNNING A "CAMPAIGN OF MISINFORMATION."
     

...  Sadly, it appears to be working quite effectively. They will ultimately win the statutory fight both in Canada and in the U.S. Merely a sign of the times...
We will just have to keep fishing in a dirty pond...
Verne            

Numbers 13:30-31
And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.  But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

[lenore]

 :DBeen thinking of the enclosed since last Thursday Night.  Did any one see ER that night.



Thoughts on Same Sex Marriage
On Thursday February 10th episode of ER , Carrie Weaver found her birth mother, and the conversation came around family which Carrie present a picture of her child and lesbian partner who had died.
As Carrie birth mother was a Christian, Carrie at first was afraid of revealing the truth; the next scene was she was in the bathroom crying. When Carrie confessed, The Birth Mother immediately reached out to Carrie to pray. Carrie rejected the prayer.  In a later scene Carrie went to see Her Birth Mother at her hotel room.  It was Carrie again rejected her Mother because of her beliefs, and walked away from her birth mother the one at peace, while the birth mother was in tears.

There was a statement that got me thinking, Carrie said to her birth mother, that your religion is too narrow to accept my lifestyle. Her birth mother made a statement to Carrie, that Carrie chose that life style, which Carrie counter statement that it wasn't a choice, but she was made that way.

Religion being too narrow to accept the gay lifestyle. Carrie may have feel she was born that way, but it is still her choice to participate active gay lifestyle.
Is religion too narrow.
One time religion rejected divorced people from leaderships within the church, a  certain religion faiths still do. Divorced, single parents shouldn't teach children.
Yet in society there are children from divorced single parent families, that need to see example of the same in leadership, to give them hope that people can rise above their circumstance.
One time religion faiths didn't allow remarriage after divorced. Now even evanglistic faiths are remarrying divorced people, not even after the first divorced, but after a second, or even a third.
One time religion faiths rejected common law marriages, now because the law of the land granting the rights to common law marriages after a certain period of time, common law partnerships are accepted. Maybe even in certain churches, these people are in leadership, because it is a norm of society, where children are born into common law marriage, that it has become accepted as norm even in the church.
No wonder the gays are asking for equal acceptance.

Getting back to Carrie on ER, her choice or Genetic coding, that produced a lesbian lifestyle. Yet the writers of that show, seem to think that audience have no memory.
Carrie was involved in heterosexual outside of marriage relationship, not just once, in her history of the show. She even had two lesbian relationships.  Yet she was at peace with her stand in rejecting the religion of her birth mother, and what the history of Carrie, the religion of her adopted family had, and Carrie was brought up in. She r ejected not the religion, not her birth mother, but God who created her. She is rejecting the God who wrote the Bible, God guidelines, and laws for those who are willing to accept and follow the teachings of Jesus. Why should Carrie have the peace in rejecting that?
Carrie was able to put down the religion of her birth mother, yet she demanded the respect from her birth mother for the belief Carrie believed in.
It is almost like the gay lifestyle is a religion of its own.

I had questions for myself.  Is my religion too narrow to accept Carrie.
No the Bible clearly says we are to love one another, and to show that love to the lost world.
To accept Carrie, doesn't mean we accept the lifestyle she is living in, whether by choice, or by genetics.
I believe in the most part, gay lifestyle is a choice, not genetics.  It is a choice to participate in it, like it is a choice to participate in heterosexual sexual relationship outside the marriage realm. It is a choice to gossip, it is a choice to become violently angry, it is a choice to steal, it is a choice to murder. All sin that is committed against God is a choice. It is the act of those choices that we cannot accept. The person who committed those acts are to be accepted as a lost sheep. We may not want to get too close to be polluted by those choices if we have a weakness in those areas ourselves. But how can we win those people over if we don't show God's love by our own examples.  

[lenore]

 :DFebruary 25

Just wanted to let you know that the article I written in the last post, was published in my local paper two weeks ago.