Another Abused Wife Comes Out of the Closet

[brian]

Brian, because you are not one who has believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, you do not understand very many things, especially including the spiritual realities that surround life.

so you are now making some kind of link between faith and intelligence? what is your link exactly? that the more intelligent someone is the more likely they are to believe exactly what you do? or the more someone believes exactly what you believe the more intelligent they become?

do not presume to understand a part of myself that carries my deepest suffering, that is, the area of my faith. yes, i have some confusions, but i am working through them as best i can, with a desperate and heartfelt desire to know and believe in the Truth. as you evidently recall, i confided a small part of that desperate journey i have been on for the past few years to you in a private chat. what you did here is bring up a very personal and private struggle i have been having that i shared with you in a moment of genuine trust. you published my private struggle to the world, painting it in harsh and vulgar colors. you did this in an attempt to discredit me on a public bulletin board because you could not refute my arguments directly. this shows that you have a weak and petty character.

I'm not going to tell you about them either, which is also likely something that you won't understand.

by your own words david mauldin and i are the only ones on the board that you know of who do not measure up to your standard of 'christian'. so on a public bb that is read by a vast majority of folks you would call christian, you will not explain youself, because you are so worried that little ole david and i won't understand??

The state has attempted to illegally enter my home, including to check my kids schoolwork.

interesting. the state has never attempted to enter my house. nor have they ever attempted to enter the house of anyone in my family. nor have they attempted to enter the house of any of my friends, nor the houses of their families. i do know someone whose house they entered. it was after a little girl died of neglect. the state came to take away the other daughter.

so why exactly did the state try to enter your house, in their terms? did one of their teachers see something that made them think there might be a problem?

*Just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean there is not someone out to get you.

i always thought this cliche was humorous in the way it clearly shows the basic futility of trying to reason with someone who is paranoid. your use of it is equivalent to hitting yourself on the head with a frying pan.

I'll tell you something else. If Dr. Smith, said of me "You're paranoid," instead of you, some lesbian brownshirt social worker - if I let her in my house (which, I would NOT) - after she saw my collection of Bibles, would, with police assistance, grab my kids and place them in foster care without a court order.

yeah, i saw a special on 20/20 the other day about all those thousands of christians in nebraska who had their kids taken away because of all the bibles in their house. ummmmmm, right.

i emphasized the 'if's in your statement to point out that this is the beginning of a very long and drawn out 'what if' statement. note: none of the following events actually occured. any resembleance to actual persons living or deceased or any real-life events is merely coincidential.

Once in foster care, my children would likely be split into several...
They could be subjected to ... behavior modification drugs ... etc etc etc

thanks so much for clearing up that point about the paranoia.
*smiling reassuringly*
*edging slowly towards the door*

So, Brian, you unqualified to say who is paranoid.

someone who is paranoid is unqualified to say who is unqualified to say who is paranoid.

This is alledgedly a Christian forum (except for you and David Mauldin) as far as I have been able to tell. So people here assume they are writing to other Christians, and that carries with it a wide plethora of assumptions. We don't need to say: "It's WRONG to murder babies in the womb;" "Stop reading pornography," "Quit being a homosexual," "Stop beating your wife." It's like doing arithmetic in Calculus class.

you're saying that talking in a christian forum about what christians should do and say in an abusive situation is equivalent to doing math in math class? even blind ole me would agree with this.

The police violently chased the brother from his home. His wife fled the state with the children, renamed them, and he now been alienated from them for over 25 years.

...

I said the guy was a "brother." He's not my friend, by any means. In fact, the guy has pretty much been a lifelong enemy,

you are enemies with a "brother"?

What makes you think it is "extremely unique" (by the way, there is no such thing as that)?

easily verifiable statistics. rachel threw a bunch at you so i am not going to take the time right now.

Statistics show that MOST women who get hit mouth off to men in ways that, if men did it to one another, they would realize it's going to come to blows.

this is a really disturbing mythical statistic that you made up here. john, have you ever hit your wife, or any other woman, or any child, because you thought they were out of line?

That doesn't make anything right, but that is the anatomy of "domestic violence."

no its not. its not even close. that was a horrible and scary thing to say.

In some cultures, for instance the Luhya people, the women beat the men. However, when these men complain, the other guys laugh at them.

yeah, thats really sad and very wrong too. so?

As for what Betty said to whom, and when, I do not yet find myself qualified to judge that in a way that can help anyone. Once again, I have experience tempering my conclusions, and you lack all restraint that results from that.

well, i have all the years of experience that the first-hand witnesses i've talked to have had for tempering their conclusions to rely on. do i need to find witnesses older than you are for you to be able to wonder if they are telling the truth? or did you believe rachel and judy's account of dark abuse, but not the parts about what betty said?

Susan, I do not think it was very smart of you to name your late husband like this in this forum.

leave susan and rachel alone. i mean it.
*frantically waving red flag in front of bull*

Gee, Brian, what a wonderful and sensitive man you are!

john had an insight! he can be taught!
theres hope for you yet, my friend.

Is this innuendo?

it cracks me up that you keep going on about innuendo, yet whenever i ask you to clarify just one of the many innuendos you have left lying about (note: one sin leads to another) you back up so fast you almost lose your train of thought.  

have a nice weekend all,

brian

[wmathews]

Rachel, you hit the 'nail on the head'.  It is a pathetic distortion of 'God's government' to justify any of the horror you endured. The mixing up of roles of church and state is a fundamental flaw in both sides of the issue.  I agree with you completely.
Wayne

[Mark C.]

Dear Susan,
  What a powerful and clear presentation of abusive Assembly relationship's.  Thank you so much for sharing it as I'm sure it was helpful to many.
  The axe is laid to the root of the Assembly tree and just a pruning job won't do the trick!
                                 God Bless,  Mark C.

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings Brent:

Any of your principles being violated now?

[Please]

Malone.
One Alone.
Now please leave US alone!!!

[Susan McCarthy]

John, until you have been beaten down (emotionally and physically) to the point where you can't cry anymore and don't know who you are as a person, you cannot begin to understand the fear, guilt, self-loathing, depression, and confusion that accompanies domestic violence.  

My intent in sharing my story was not to cause a debate (although I realize that this bulletin board is a forum for honest and respectful discussion and even disagreement), but to expose the heartbreak caused by legitimizing and ignoring the symptoms of abuse in the family.  There was a direct connection between the counsel given to us as a young, impressionable couple and the destructive behaviors that ensued.  I give God the glory for delivering both Tom and I from our mistakes and sins concerning this.

I also want to reiterate to anyone who hasn't read my first two postings on this matter, that I carefully weighed the possible embarrassment of sharing this story against the hope that someone might be helped, someone who might otherwise suffer terribly in silence, denial, or worse yet, be killed.  The lambs are hurting.  Please have compassion.

[brad]

I have been gone for two days on business and find myself deeply concerned about the harsh and very long drawn out discussion on this matter of abuse...

Mr. Malone...whatever your situation is or was...you are definitely acting with a rare form of  harsh arrogance and misplaced intellect. I find your repeated angry postings...strongly offensive to even myself who has no personal or emotional attachment to this thread.  It seems you cannot refrain yourself from picking at the wounds...repeatedly arguing for the sake of argument...a rather bitter and frustrated personality trait for sure.

My profound apologies to Brian who I have known since his birth in Tuscola IL... and I still remember the days when my father lead his father and mother to a saving knowledge of Christ...in our home....in front of me. I lived with a young  Brian and his family when he was in Charleston IL...while I attended undergraduate school in pre-medicine. Rest assured Mr. Malone...Brian is safe in his salvation and understanding of Christ. Whatever personal struggles he has identified...certainly does not affect the ridiculous discussion of abuse of your civil rights. Sin has been committed, abuse is wrong. You need to back off and get a grip. Whatever brian's personal demons...you have no right to demand his removal from this BB. I personally couldn't disagree with your suggestion more vehemently than I do.

I apolgize to all who have been exposed to this pointless and painful banter....attacking anyone not supporting your (Mr. Malone's) view of these matters.  Mr. Malone you disappoint me at your age of 51, I would expect some patience and tact would be within your grasp. I challenge you to pause and maybe you should reflect on why you would even visit this site let alone participate...

My father always taught me self control  combined with simple courtesy and respect was the greatest sign of maturity and honor.....in a gentleman.

[editor]

For the record:

I do not know how to look at people's Private messages.  If I did, I would not do it.

I don't know if Brian can do this or not, he is far more adept at computer stuff than I, so it is possible he may be able to snoop.  However,  I do not believe for one second that this is the case!

If I found out that Brian, or anyone else, was violating someone's privacy, I would boot them immediately. From the outset, I have been careful to maintain complete control over this website.  I can lock Brian out at any time, should the need arise.  I do have the ability to boot Brian,  however, I trust him completely.  He is doing work for me with regard to this website, for which I am thankful.  I would be happy indeed to find another employee with  work ethic and honesty that Brian exhibits.

I am solely responsible for the main webpage, including the very poor decoration.  I am an amature.  Brian is responsible for setting up the bulletin board,  which I am not able to do, because I don't know enough about MYSQL, etc.

He has done a great job, and has not once violated our working agreement.  I could not ask for a better webmaster.

Brian has no say when it comes to content on the website, but he is free to post his thoughts on the bulletin board as is everyone else.

He does not delete posts, or make executive decisions, without consulting me.

The other moderator, Mark Campbell, does delete posts, etc.  He does not have the ability to read anyone's mail, etc.

We delete posts for the following reasons only:

1.)Blasphemy
2.) Profanity
3.) Impersonation
4.) Foolish redundancy (recent example of 14 pages of posts with the letter "A" only on every post.)

Also, regarding Brian's spiritual status,  ask him yourselves.  I know where he stands, and it is NOT where I stand, but I do not believe, at this time, that it is a hinderance to the gospel going forth.  I have not asked Brian to preach, teach, or counsel me concerning spiritual matters, nor has he attempted to do so.  People on this website are allowed to have differing views, but as long as I am involved, the official view will be that of giving glory to Jesus Christ.

I do pray for Brian daily, and I suppose the rest of you could do this as well.

Brian is staying on as my tech support, and I am happy to have him.

Brent Tr0ckman,
editor, owner, head honcho, GeftakysAssembly.com

[Scott McCumber]

Brad,

Your rebuttal was impeccable.

Brent,

Your stance is above reproach.

Neither should have been necessary, but I'm sure Brian will be pleased to know others stood up for him in his absence. Though I thought he has done a pretty good job for himself so far!

I suggest this issue be put to rest completely.

[retread]

My only "complaint" with your telling of your story is that the brother is dead, and there was no reason to further disgrace his memory. You could have told the story in the third person, and been effective.

John,

Yes, it is a tough subject to deal with when you are talking about someone who has died.  However, I for one did not see Susan as disgracing Tom’s memory at all. Sure, there are lots of details of sin that I do not care to hear about, but I was able to appreciate her story.  Remember, she also said how he ended his journey here on Earth:

The physical abuse stopped then, but the scars remained. I am thankful to say that the last year of his life and our marriage was the happiest - we began to heal from the negative teaching and behavior of the brethren, and I have long since forgiven my husband for his violent acts.  I know that he loved me but was misguided in his attempt to have a perfect assembly family.

This sounds like a thankful woman to me.  Thankful for where God had brought her husband.

True, maybe we should be careful about some facts that we bring up about those that are no longer with us.  But, some details are helpful.  After all, I am sure that you wouldn’t want to have your Bible edited, to remove things such as David’s sin of adultery and having Uriah put in to battle where he would die.  Maybe I shouldn’t mention this because it may disgrace the memory of David (a man after God’s own heart, who would fulfil his will).  Just a thought…

If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me.

[Ken Fuller]

Can we get this thread back to the theme it is addressing?

Every time Mr Malone posts a comment, on any thread, it diverges into an argument over his intellect, anger and hatred towards the brethren.

Perhaps if we would quit responding to his posts and continue with the themes we are talking about, he would begin to post useful comments (or just go away).

There are deeper and more useful things to discuss than Malone's superior intelligence.

Susan, I am grateful for your post and being willing to come out with your story.  Hopefully it can help others to not be fearful in speaking the truth.

I know it was a difficult thing for you, and I'm grieved how someone could post such flaming insults at you because of it.

My advice -- for Brian, Brent, retread and anyone else being drawn into his folly is just let him be ...... there are more important, serious and efifying discussions to get into on this board.

[brad]

Ken,

Excellent point made. Susan, Thank you for your effort to reveal some of your past...I am grateful for your information and I know it has had a strong and immediate reaction from the SLO leadership...despite what you might feel from this BB and its posters.

God bless you and the others who have shared in your misery...we care and we want to help.

[Rachel]

Again Susan,

Thank you for being willing to share your story.  There is a teaching and interraction promoted by the teaching in the assembly that places victims in bondage and helps to perpetuate abuse.  

I do not care what anyone else thinks or believes about the dynamics of abuse or the age old question of why the victim does not have the abuser arrested.  I have learned about those things first hand and it was a hard lesson.  I can not expect those who have not gone through it to always understand it, I would not wish the experiences that teach those lessons on anyone.  I do not need the understanding of everyone in order to be firm in what I know.  

I think an interesting discussion along this line might be a discussion of what kinds of teachings have helped facilitate and proprogate the abusive treatment and the teachings that refute that.

To get the ball roling.  There was the teaching of what it means to submit as a wife to your husband.  We were taught that meant we had to obey my father always and submit to even his abuse.  We were to just trust that if God wanted it differently God would change the situation.  We were also to trust that God would protect us.  That may be true in word but the practice was to just do nothing except try harder not to make our abuser angry.(I will preventatively ask that we all please ignore John Malone's response to this as it is guaranteed to be aggrivating.  He has privately responded to me regarding the letter I wrote to him and posted here but only under the aggreement that I would not post anything he said to me.  It was all to be under strict confidence.)

[Susan McCarthy]

Thanks to all who are re-directing this discussion to 1) what teachings and attitudes and scriptures were used to propogate this view of women; 2) what scriptures (and their applications) can be shared to encourage us to love one another and prevent this type of destructive behavior in the future; and 3) testimonies from healthy couples on how they have balanced the submission issue with mutual love, trust, and respect.

The last thing I will say in defense of sharing my story is that I waited 13 years to bring this to the light.  If I were angry or bitter and wanted to disgrace my husband, I would have told the story in a different spirit a long time ago.

I could not live with my conscience to think that mere criticism and disgrace should stop me from helping the defenseless.  How many other sisters out there have either witnessed abuse or been victims?  You may not wish to post your story details here, but I entreat you to get help!

I brought this to the Lord in prayer again last night, and He assured me that I was doing the right thing.  Tom is in heaven, and he does not need to be defended- he is safe in the arms of Jesus.  I will stand before God for my own reputation.  And if I know this dead  brother's heart, as I think I do, he would not be opposed to having our story shared, because beneath the layers of assembly dogma, he loved the brothers and sisters and me- God's grace and mercy can overcome anything.  Yes, I am thankful!!

[TGarisek]

What if more sisters over the years had with quiet, Godly persistence, engaged their husbands over the clearly unsavory and unkind things going on and held them to account? I wonder.

Umm? Maybe not so quiet, but persistent and engaging? Hay, that's my wife you're talking about!

Wonder no more!