DavidHaan
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« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2003, 02:08:52 am » |
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hey, that last post was actually from me rather than my brother, sorry for the confusion. I was accidently logged in under his name.
david
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BenJapheth
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« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2003, 03:16:20 am » |
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Mike Zach has been complicit in the destruction of two families...
Below please note two of the many witnesses to the evil deeds of Mike Zach in deeds of faithlessness and deeds of divisiveness.
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Quote from: Rachel on February 01, 2003, 06:37:37 PM
"Mike Zach is a man who witnessed first hand what had been happening in my family's home. He heard my mother's first hand account three years ago. He promised help and then none came from him...a man who has been complicit in the abandonement of an abused woman"
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February 02, 2003, 08:28:36 PM
"Dear Chuck & Mary Ann,
This is ***** *****.It's seems like so long ago, during those early days in the assembly. A lot has happened since then, but I'll make a long story short. I moved to ****** and was married in **** in the assembly. In *****, my ******* and I left the assembly and were branded as deceivers. I always saw myself and others in the assembly as victims, not as willing participants in the sins of the assembly. Through the website that Brent Tr0ckman has started I have come to see my part in the wrongdoing that destroyed so many families, including yours. As I sat by and even cooperated with the Omaha leadership, your name and your home was being attacked. I didn't bother finding out the facts, I just took my stand against you while they split your familiy apart. For all of this I repent and ask your forgiveness. I know you have endured many years of pain because of all this. I only pray that now that things are really being brought into the open that your family will be restored. I have only fond memories of your love and graciousness and I thank you for your example to me as a young Christian.
Trusting His Mercy, *****"
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Mike Zach is a man that is not above reproach...Protect your families from this destructive man.
I implore Mike Zach by the Mercies of God to repent of his evil deeds against Chuck & Mary Ann Miller in 1978 and to repent of evil deeds against Judy Geftakys in 1999-2000.
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BenJapheth
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« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2003, 03:34:24 am » |
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My name is Chuck Vanasse, my Father-In-Law is Chuck Miller father of Becky Cohen, Nancy Lehmkuhl, Patty Mathews, Chris Sjogren, Mike Miller as well as my wife Ann Vanasse and three other sons. The little church in Omaha began in Chuck Miller's home and was taken over by George Giftakys with the help of Mike Zach and Jim Hayman in the late '70s. Chuck Miller was severely sinned against by Mike Zach and Jim Hayman 25 years ago in dividing Chuck's family in two. An example... Chuck Miller was told when he decided to leave the Assembly by Jim Hayman - "Chuck, if you leave the assembly you're leaving God." Witnesses include my wife who was then 17 years-old and Chuck's wife Mary Ann Miller. This and many other evil deeds need to be repented of immediately. I call upon Mike Zach as well as Jim Hayman to repent of their evil deeds in the sight of God and men concerning Chuck and Mary Ann Miller or your deeds will continue to be published. If anyone would like to participate as witnesses against these two mens' destructive deeds please write me - Chuck Vanasse chuck@vanant.com. Mike Zach is not a man that is above reproach I call upon Mike Zach to step down from leadership effective immediately. |
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SugarMagnolia
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« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2003, 04:22:21 am » |
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Where's this post from Nancy Bellinger? I can't seem to find it.
Also, I have something to say about the social pressures felt at the T&T and TT. Why and how did you feel these social pressures? Why, Nate, did you feel 'uncool'? It's my understanding that with *any* large group of people (especially teenagers) there are natural social pressures to fit in and find a suitable clique.
david
Dave, Christian teenagers, or adults for that matter, who are truly exercising the love of God don't do cliques. God's love is not limited to just "cool" people. |
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Luke Robinson
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« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2003, 04:30:59 am » |
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Another thing, in the Christian life, we're not called to be "cool". I sometimes have felt left out of the "popular group", but sometimes I have been in the "popular group" and I know I have left other people out. And that is definitely wrong. But God has grace, and I hope that he keeps illuminating me on who I might have hurt over the years, and I want to get things right.
And furthermore, I don't think there should be "cliques" at all in the house of God. We should all be friends and if we are being cruel to others, we should repent.
Luke Robinson
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« Last Edit: February 05, 2003, 04:32:44 am by Luke Robinson »
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psalm51
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« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2003, 04:41:51 am » |
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Another thing, in the Christian life, we're not called to be "cool". I sometimes have felt left out of the "popular group", but sometimes I have been in the "popular group" and I know I have left other people out. And that is definitely wrong. But God has grace, and I hope that he keeps illuminating me on who I might have hurt over the years, and I want to get things right.
And furthermore, I don't think there should be "cliques" at all in the house of God. We should all be friends and if we are being cruel to others, we should repent.
Luke Robinson
Luke, I agree with you. Unfortunately, cliques have been a very real part of the Teen Team and Teen Conference, just as they are "in the world". I saw it first hand at many a Teen Conference. There were the "in" group tables and the other kind  You could see it on the faces of the kids who were left out that it was a very difficult thing. Indeed, if you were in any way different from the more popular assembly teens, you felt it painfully. In talking to teens who have attended both activites, I would say that the teens in the assembly were often no different than their peers "in the world" except for a lot of bible talk and knowledge. Does that mean that many of the teens were not sincerely seeking God. No. They were often just acting their age. What has distressed me the most over the years though, is the prideful attitude in the teens - something they, no doubt, got from their elders, me included. Enough for now. Take care, Luke. Pat |
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James
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« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2003, 05:05:22 am » |
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i think dave needs a clarification on the word "clique". It means snobbishly exclusive, and that's not what dave was trying to get at. (i was watching him post). I think what he meant by clique was simply a group of people with similar interests, that is not purposely exclusive.
jim
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Joseph Reisinger
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« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2003, 05:19:12 am » |
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I don't know why this is being talked about in the Nebraska thread... well, ok, I guess I do - but I was wondering how many teens who are reading this website think that the teen team and T&T conferences were some of the best times of your life. And I'm talking about learning and fellowship both.
They were for me.
Joseph R
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jesusfreak
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« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2003, 05:20:31 am » |
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I don't know why this is being talked about in the Nebraska thread... well, ok, I guess I do - but I was wondering how many teens who are reading this website think that the teen team and T&T conferences were some of the best times of your life. And I'm talking about learning and fellowship both.
They were for me.
Joseph R
*raised hand* right here! |
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guest
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« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2003, 05:34:23 am » |
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another raised hand - and I was a teacher!
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psalm51
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« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2003, 05:44:52 am » |
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another raised hand - and I was a teacher!
Guest, There are probably a lot of raised hands, teens and teachers both. I enjoyed the teacher part of the conference very much. Roger was a skillful teacher and I learned a lot. My experience or yours, though, does not change the fact that there were those, (I saw them and knew some of them), who looked or were truly miserable. They were most definitely left out of the loop by their fellow Christian peers because they were different - whether it was their looks, their way of thinking, where they were at spiritually, emotionally, whatever...As in any group of teens there was peer pressure and those who didn't conform (ie. didn't like to play volleyball, silly as that is) suffered, some more than others. So, while I am glad for all of you who have wonderful memories, just be aware that there are those who do not. Pat |
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4Him
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« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2003, 06:13:52 am » |
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Luke, I agree with you. Unfortunately, cliques have been a very real part of the Teen Team and Teen Conference, just as they are "in the world". I saw it first hand at many a Teen Conference. There were the "in" group tables and the other kind You could see it on the faces of the kids who were left out that it was a very difficult thing. Indeed, if you were in any way different from the more popular assembly teens, you felt it painfully. ... Thanks for your insight, Pat. You are very much on the mark. This, as I see it is pretty much an extension of the assemblies as a whole. Generally, workers/leadership are the "ins" (overcomers) and everyone else the "outs" (carnal). For the most part, the teen/young adult posters who have, by-and-large, been defending "the good'ol days", are the "ins". The outs are pretty much, well, out. Could be that the latter decided they were not to going to put up w/the abuse/rejection and the former have never really had to face it. |
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editor
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« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2003, 07:08:41 am » |
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During the 17 years I was in the Assembly I had the best times of my life, as it was then.
Now, being out, I have had some best times of my life. No matter where you are, you are there! If all you know is T&T and TT, then they will be the best times of your life, unless you didn't like them. None of this proves anything.
The real question is, "What is the value/danger of being under the ministry?"
Here is another one, Does a little leaven really leaven the whole lump, or was Paul just using hyperbole?
The concern I have with people going to the T&T conference is valid. Who is teaching it and what is their motivation? It seems to me, with the house on fire, that leaders should be paying much more attention to the very sober issues at hand, than indoctrinating kids. Of course, there may be another reason for doing the T&T as well.
Brent
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DavidHaan
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« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2003, 08:59:41 am » |
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thanks for the clarification, james. yea, i meant groups rather than exclusive cliques. but anywho, i'm still wondering where the post from nancy bellinger went. was it deleted?
david
ps. If you ever find a *teenage* christian conference or summer "team" without cliques or 'popular groups' let me know.
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« Last Edit: February 05, 2003, 09:25:47 am by DavidHaan »
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editor
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« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2003, 08:32:18 pm » |
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The only things George didn't have going for him were magic tricks, and an available brother with a pile of cash Dear John As you mention above, there is an even more sly and dangerous "George" out there. Lives in your neck of the woods I believe. Brent |
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