Nebraska

[Nate Dogg]

To Joseph Reisinger I would have to respond with a  resounding chorus of definitely no. The Teen Conf. was a a mostly miserable experience of feeling left out. The spiritual teaching that went on their for the teens was of the: you are not perfect enough self is still on the  throne variety. It is a rotten and damaging theology.
One thing I remember too, is how I wasn't good at sports. Since this was the only sanctioned social activity by the assembly (the irony is that we were competing with each other, while talking about self not being on the throne. Yeah, sure.) I was left on the margins where I mostly read thick books which made people think I was wierd.
Whew! some repressed memories coming up there!!!
     
                                    Nate

[jesusfreak]

To Joseph Reisinger I would have to respond with a  resounding chorus of definitely no. The Teen Conf. was a a mostly miserable experience of feeling left out. The spiritual teaching that went on their for the teens was of the: you are not perfect enough self is still on the  throne variety. It is a rotten and damaging theology.
One thing I remember too, is how I wasn't good at sports. Since this was the only sanctioned social activity by the assembly (the irony is that we were competing with each other, while talking about self not being on the throne. Yeah, sure.) I was left on the margins where I mostly read thick books which made people think I was wierd.
Whew! some repressed memories coming up there!!!
     
                                    Nate

No, the variety of teaching that went on was the importance of a Christ centered life.  As for sports, I too am not athletic but at least i made the effort to have a good time.  These times are included in the best times of my life.

[Nate Dogg]

Also,
 
 hello to Paul Robinson, Dave Haan, Jim Haan, Joseph, my mom, my bro   Ben, and my bro Luke. Also to tim souther for some insightful posting.

             Paul,
 
              when you say christians are not called to be "cool" or shouldn't be mean to each other, I wholeheartedly agree. but Christians are not "called" to  play sports. they are not called to do a lot of things. but the sad reality of the social situation was, as Tim souther put it: you were in or out. I expect thats why your brother steven left, Tim, because people persecuted him into the ground for being wierd. (Tim, if you see your brother please ask for his forgiveness from me. i perpetuated this warped social system too)  
Another thing, which I may have already  talked about in other posts: friendship between men and women who were AKs. I would submit that  this is probably one of the top five "taboos if you were an AK. Does anyone else have input into other taboos. Actually I should be posting this on the AK BB, but oh well.
                                                       Nate

[jesusfreak]

as Tim souther put it: you were in or out. I expect thats why your brother steven left, Tim, because people persecuted him into the ground for being wierd. (Tim, if you see your brother please ask for his forgiveness from me. i perpetuated this warped social system too)  

Nate, Steve is Tim's first son.

[SugarMagnolia]

thanks for the clarification, james.  yea, i meant groups rather than exclusive cliques.  but anywho, i'm still wondering where the post from nancy bellinger went.  was it deleted?  


david
ps.  If you ever find a *teenage* christian conference or summer "team" without cliques or 'popular groups' let me know.  

Dave, what is your point?  That because its common for teens (Christian or no) to be cliquish, that makes it right?

[jesusfreak]

Dave, what is your point?  That because its common for teens (Christian or no) to be cliquish, that makes it right?

I think he meant it to point out that the cliquish behavior found at the assembly's Teen functions are not exclusively in place there, not to make any statement as to the virtue of such phenomena.

[lemonlime]

I had both the best times of my life and the worst times of my life while on trips with the assembly (teen teacher conference, teen team, nebraska canoe trips, camp, etc)

did the good outweigh the bad? probably not. I was miserable at camp up until this past year, and over teen team, i did find it cliquish. i dont know about the guys in the assembly, but the girls are VERY cliquish. and i was the kid everyone made fun of at camp and stuff, because i was different. I hated going to camp. i had some fun, true. and i made some friends. but i was put through alot of ridicule,  because i wasnt pretty, funny, or "cool" enough.

one year, a group of girls made fun of me the entire week of camp. my own best friend didnt stick up for me, and the only person who went out to me at all was Danielle Starr. She was the most awesome counselor I have EVER had and if anything could outweigh the agony i went through, it would be meeting her. There were 2 other good things that have happened at Camp though: the year after that year, one of the girls came back at the end of the week and apologized in tears for treating me so badly. we've been good friends since. and the year before this year, another girl came back and apologized for basically everything. we've been friends since as well.

One of the reasons why I've had a hard time with teen team, camp, and the conferences is that I've always been ridiculed for being different no matter where i was. And as a kid i felt like..."these are christians, don't christians love each other and treat each other better then this?" and i've realized since that many of the people who had treated me badly didnt have a real walk with the Lord. that doesnt make it hurt less but understanding is the first step towards healing. I became very depressed because of how i was treated by people, not just those in the assembly. but depression is a choice. And i don't blame my depression on the people who treated me badly, but they sure didn't help much.

I had a hard time on teen team, partially because im anti-social, partially because i found it to be cliquish, and partially because of my house. but i am glad i went, it was a good experience. and mammoth was really pretty. plus, i got alot of time to work on my sketching. and even though i havent stayed in touch very well, i made alot of friends and met alot of people i would have NEVER had a chance at meeting if i hadnt gone.

[Joseph Reisinger]

Brent,
I wouldn't call the teens that still fellowship in the assemblies "kids".  I think, if anyone is attuned to the winds of change, it is them.  
I would not be so worried about "indoctrinating kids" at the T&T conf.  I think you will find many who will be rather asking questions and standing for fellow teenagers.  When was the last time you were at a T&T conf here in the midwest?  Do you know many of the teens out here?
I, for one, have decided to go to the conference.  There are several reasons why I will go.
 
1.  God has spoken to me very powerfully through a discussion on "The seven laws of the teacher"  which I find very useful, and all about grace. (this is in the teachers section) I believe God will speak there, contrary to what you may believe.
2.  I have many friends who I wish to stand with, and encourage, and discuss these (current events) things with - considering what God wants to do.
3.  I always have fun.  While I have not been camps, retreats, etc. hosted by other christian groups (I will though, I'm sure.)  I do know the experiences I have had - and it has always been worth it.
4.  I want to see what things are taught to the teens - and if, as you would imply, this would be a brainwashing time - or rather, the teens will be encouraged to seek God's will for themselves - and live by his grace.

So.. that's where I'm coming from.  I hope you see that it is an expression of my liberty in Christ that I can go to this conference - and walk before the Lord.

Your brother in Christ,
Joseph Reisinger

[Joseph Reisinger]

Nate,
I'm sorry to hear your experience - not that you weren't good at sports - because as you have said, God doesn't call us to be good at them; but rather, that you felt left out or even looked down upon.  I think I was probably insensitive to such feelings because I personally love sports so much.  I do have one question though...

the irony is that we were competing with each other, while talking about self not being on the throne. Yeah, sure

It seemed this was said in jest, but it made me wonder if you consider competitive sports to be wrong?
Anyway, I was wondering what you think about the whole issue of "self on the throne/ Christ on the throne" - do you believe that there is no such thing?  Or rather that there was just too much emphasis on it?
Your brother in Christ,
Joseph Reisinger

[editor]

Dear Joseph

I have never been to an Assembly T&T.  I have been to numerous campus conferences, etc.  I have also been to many non-assembly teen functions.  

I do know this, teenagers are easily influenced.  Peer pressure, hero worship, pretty much everyone can influence them, with the possible exception of their own parents!

What I am going to say, next, is quite radical, but at the same time sober and serious:

The spirit behind the Geftakys ministry is not wholesome, but dangerous.

I think it is totally unwise to send adults or teenagers away for a retreat, led by a man who has been literally bought and paid for by Geftakys.  It just isn't a good idea.

Brent

[Nate Dogg]

Dear Joseph,

   No, I do not believe there is a clear moral imperative for or against sports. I am simply pointing out an irony that competitive sports (at least in  the assembly context where they had social value) were vehicles for self-fulfillment apart from God. I do have major problems with the self on the throne/Christ on the throne model, as it has led to some pretty major blocks in my spiritual life. The interesting thing is that we are taught at those times to prostrate self, to deny self, to supress self, to purge self...and yet we play sports in which "self" and "self" expression played a major if not primary role.

                                                   in love and struggle,
                                                            Nate

[Joseph Reisinger]

Nate,
thanks - that helps.

Brent,
I think you might be making a few assumptions - at least by my reckoning.
1.  all assemblies are similar - you said that you had been to several campus conferences and teen functions, etc.  I am taking this to mean that you had been to many on the west coast... (which I myself haven't been to - and therefore have no ground to comment on them)  All I know is what I see here in the midwest and what I have seen on teen teams in Cali.  We would all do well to speak of what we know.

What I am going to say, next, is quite radical, but at the same time sober and serious:

The spirit behind the Geftakys ministry is not wholesome, but dangerous.

I think it is totally unwise to send adults or teenagers away for a retreat, led by a man who has been literally bought and paid for by Geftakys.  It just isn't a good idea.

2.  You assume that the spirit behind the geftakys ministry is the same spirit behind the current assemblies or gatherings... (if you assume different, you don't seem to make that distiction)  I agree, by the way, that the Geftakys ministry is dangerous.. that's why I don't want to be involved with it anymore - That does not change the fact that I want to be involved with the people here in Forest Park, and all those that attend the T&T conf... etc.  I don't believe it is the same thing.

3.  You assume that adults and teens are being "sent" to this conf.  when in reality, I believe most are going there because they want to... there is a difference.

4.  You assume that Mike was "literally bought and paid for by Geftakys"  I think in order to assume such.. there would need to be more evidence than that which has been presented.

That being said.. I appreciate your concern.. and if I see any of this dangerous Geftakys ministry running around.. I will be sure to stand against it.
Your brother in Christ,
Joseph Reisinger

[jesusfreak]

2.  You assume that the spirit behind the geftakys ministry is the same spirit behind the current assemblies or gatherings... (if you assume different, you don't seem to make that distiction)  I agree, by the way, that the Geftakys ministry is dangerous.. that's why I don't want to be involved with it anymore - That does not change the fact that I want to be involved with the people here in Forest Park, and all those that attend the T&T conf... etc.  I don't believe it is the same thing.

3.  You assume that adults and teens are being "sent" to this conf.  when in reality, I believe most are going there because they want to... there is a difference.

4.  You assume that Mike was "literally bought and paid for by Geftakys"  I think in order to assume such.. there would need to be more evidence than that which has been presented.

AMEN!

[editor]

Dear Joseph

I visited 12 Assemblies.  They were all totally similiar.
The assumptions I made were based on what I saw.  I am biased. (so is everyone else)

If what I say is untrue, I always correct it.  However, the vast majority of the things I have written have rung true for many, many people.  I don't claim that I see everything, how could I?

I do see something, and have spoken up about it, as I am commanded to do by The Lord Jesus.  The results of obeying Him speak for themselves.

2.  You assume that the spirit behind the geftakys ministry is the same spirit behind the current assemblies or gatherings... (if you assume different, you don't seem to make that distiction)  I agree, by the way, that the Geftakys ministry is dangerous.. that's why I don't want to be involved with it anymore - That does not change the fact that I want to be involved with the people here in Forest Park, and all those that attend the T&T conf... etc.  I don't believe it is the same thing.

Yes I most definitely do assume that the unwholesome, demonic spirit of George Geftakys still lingers in the Assemblies.  Some have gone to greater lengths than others to purge out the old leaven, but thirty years of deceit doesn't go away overnight.

Dear Joseph,  please don't give the demons a clean and swept house.  I am being totally serious.  Purge out the old leaven. New wine goes in new wineskins!

As to children/teens going to a conference, your parents are allowing you to go.  You could not go if your folks didn't want you to. You are being "sent."  I think it's a bad idea.  You are free to disagree.

Brent

[Joseph Reisinger]

Brent,
which ones.. this might help me have a clearer perspective.. and how were they the same?
thanks,
Joseph