Nebraska

[BenJapheth]

Luke,

Fraud-Monster and Wolf, perhaps, they're redundant...

Well, it's like you - you're Luke or Mr. Robinson or Luke Robinson.

Let's pray for these men - The Fraud-Monster, the ----- one as well as the -------.  Loves covers a multitude of sins and their repentance will cover their shame as well.

The tradegy is that currently there shame is on parade.

I appreciate your input.  I've been wondering about the name calling..."brood of vipers,"  "that fox,"... etc

Bless You, Luke...

[editor]

Perspective, Lets keep this whole thing in perspective.

The only reason there has been repentance of the leadership is because of exposure.  Sad, but true.  They would have done as always, like they have many times in the years prior, and simply denied and carried on, pretending.

Exposure is sad, but necessary.  Pro-active (real) repentance is much better, but the leaders who repented that way left long ago, and were slandered by the current bunch.

Again, the goal is not hurt and harm, but repentance.  Unfortunately, many of them won't change, let alone repent, unless forced to do so.  So, we do what we must, expose the infuitful workds of darkness, and have no fellowship with them.

The people go free, and the unrepentant leaders will suffer, due to their own ways.

Sow wind.......reap whirlwind.


Brent

[Nate Dogg]

Luke,

   I think what you are seeing here is a lot of anger about the fact that George and Mike Zach and the "leadership" split MY family so horrendously that I didnt even meet Uncle Chuck, Aunt Ann, or my grandparents on my mom's side for over almost 15 years!

   You are being sarcastic, I realize, but until you know what it feels like to experience that degree of alienation from family because of a ridiculious "spiritual" standard, you have NO idea what its like.

  Perhaps your experience in the assembly has generally been positive, and I certainly appreciate your willingness to dialogue with those of us who are out of the Assembly. But you MUST realize that your good experience was ATYPICAL. You can no longer assume that everyone on this website has a "grudge" against the assembly (if you were not assuming that I apologize. It just seemed so from your posts)In the future, please show a little more respect for the immense amount of pain, hurt and anger coming out on this site.
 
                                       peace and blessings,
                                                        Nate  

[editor]

This message is also addressed to Luke Robinson

Luke, I guarantee that you have been damaged spiritually by your association with Geftakys's of all shapes and sizes, including their servants.

You don't realize this yet, but you will.  Do not suppose that you are somehow immune to the leavening that took place.  That assumption is based on pride, which is the #1 ingredient in a leavened loaf.

Pride blinds.  It has blinded me, and it has blinded you.  

If you view yourself as "walking with Christ," and others, who recognize they have been hurt by a false teacher as "less than walking with Christ,"  you are a pharisee.
Yep, I am judging you.  I am passing judgement on you, based on reading your posts, and your own words.

It is not unusual for young men to be proud.  I was far worse than you, guaranteed.
However, if you couple youthful pride with exclusive Geftakys leaven, and then mix in the temptations that come from spiritual elitism, you have a recipe for disaster.

If you don't deal with this, I promise you will reap bitter consequences in the future.

Take from someone who has been there and done that.  Again, I was worse than you, but I know what I am talking about.

Brent

[wolverine]

This message is also addressed to Luke Robinson

Luke,

I don't even know who you are anymore...

BrentTr0ckmanFan

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Brent,

Thank you for your lovely post.  I DID NOT SAY THAT I WAS IMMUNE TO THE LEAVENING THAT TOOK PLACE.

You, sir, are putting words in my mouth and assumptions in my head.  

And I never said that those that changed gatherings are not walking with Christ, such as the colonel of the GA.com army.  I did not say this in the least.  

Mr. Tr0ckman, please stop these ideas of me being so blind and prideful.  You don't know me.  You have never met me.  

And now I am expected to take this and repent openly or Brent will send fire from SLO and burn me(or from the Keeper of the Flames).

OR, I will have to defend myself to faulty judgement.  

Dear Mr. Tr0ckman, I know who I am in Christ.  I know what I think, and sometimes it might come out the wrong way, but in no way, do I think you or others are not walking with Christ.  In fact, last Wednesday night, I went to a different youth group, and you know what?  I had a great time and made a lot of friends who are walking with the Lord!

You are the one assuming here, my friend.  But thank you again, for your delightful post.  

By the way, is this all about the name-calling episode?  I see that I am "in the back, under discipline."  At least, I go to the ANOP(all night of posting)!  Just kidding.

Sir, cut me some slack and give me a real title like "Little Egotistical AK with No Mind of His Own and Won't Stop Foolishly Posting".  I mean, is this what you think I am?  
Well, do as you please, it is your website, and you are the top guy.  

Luke Robinson  

[wolverine]

Do it!!!  Do it!!!!  Change his title to his suggestion!!!

BrentTr0ckmanFan

[wmathews]

Dear Luke,
 
  Your 'stick at it-ness' (can I still say that word?) is admirable. You have been caught in the cross-fire which peacemaking always brings. I know you and will defend you from being thrown to the Keeper of the Flames. I think we should recreate the LukeRobinson Fan Club at least.    
  Seriously, I am encouraged at your candor and desire to walk with God.  At this time, I have been encouraged in reading the book of Isaiah and also the Sermon on the Mount.  Hang in there, friend, winning is the objective, losing may be accepted, but quitting is not an option!

    Your friend,
    Wayne (VP Ben's dad)

[Oscar]

Chuck V. posted...
                "The assembly way of doing things"...


"George took over the little church in Omaha where several families and singles had been meeting in the Miller home.  Chuck Miller said the first tip he had that George-the-Fraud-Monster was a wolf was that George-the-Fraud-Monster said that their little gathering should "stop breaking bread" until he arrived and "showed them how."

So, I guess the Monster showed all the assemblies how, right?

What a tragedy! ...Chuck Miller was a faithful witness in 1978, but he was opposed by Sock-Puppet Zach and by the Shameful Hayman.  Both men were being led into idolatry by the terrible Fraud-Monster Geftakys.

So, Fraud-Monster spread idolatry throughout the land."

Chuck,

Let me say up front that I agree with you that what GG did regarding the Miller family was unexcuseable, reprehensable, downright evil.  No question of that.

I have a slightly different take on this.  Here it is.

It is one thing to influence a group of young, ignorant kids against their parents.  That is what GG did.  He used lies and character assassination to build up a wall between Mike, Nancy, Becky and whatever other Miller "kids" followed GG's lead in shunning their own father and mother.

It is quite another for 30 to 40+ year old adults to continue to do so.  Literally hundreds of GG's victims have worked their way through the GG deception and gotten on with their lives elsewhere.  I know that Nancy was about 30 when she married JL in the 80's.
I think Mike and Becky are older than she is???

I know they started out as victims, but I think that with the years, some of the responsibility has shifted to their shoulders.  We all will give account for our own lives, and "the Devil made me do it" doesn't count for much.

Have they begun to reconcile since the "fall" of GG?  I hope so.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

[jesusfreak]

You should do this, that would be amusing.  

Sir, cut me some slack and give me a real title like "Little Egotistical AK with No Mind of His Own and Won't Stop Foolishly Posting".  I mean, is this what you think I am?  

[Luke Robinson]

I was kidding...but whatever floats your boat.

[jesusfreak]

I was kidding...but whatever floats your boat.

<sarcasm>use sarcasm tags next time bud  </sarcasm>

make life easier for everyone

ps - love ya luke  

[BenJapheth]

Tom, yes, the Miller extended family klan is starting to be reconciled - grace is flowing or as my good Bro-In-Law Wayne Mathews says "Aslan is on the move"...

You know the Miller kids 51 down to 45 have been involved in the assembly for practically their WHOLE adult lives...Some of them don't quite have their land legs, yet.  It's going to take a while.  

Yes, being held captive under an evil man is a two way thing.  To have idolatry you need two - the idol and the idolator.  

Tom, we're talking about individual sin and we're talking about community sin that spanned decades.

Serious and awesome.

Chuck V. posted...
                "The assembly way of doing things"...


"George took over the little church in Omaha where several families and singles had been meeting in the Miller home.  Chuck Miller said the first tip he had that George-the-Fraud-Monster was a wolf was that George-the-Fraud-Monster said that their little gathering should "stop breaking bread" until he arrived and "showed them how."

So, I guess the Monster showed all the assemblies how, right?

What a tragedy! ...Chuck Miller was a faithful witness in 1978, but he was opposed by Zach and by Hayman.  Both men were being led into idolatry by the terrible Fraud-Monster Geftakys.

So, Fraud-Monster spread idolatry throughout the land."

Chuck,

Let me say up front that I agree with you that what GG did regarding the Miller family was unexcuseable, reprehensable, downright evil.  No question of that.

I have a slightly different take on this.  Here it is.

It is one thing to influence a group of young, ignorant kids against their parents.  That is what GG did.  He used lies and character assassination to build up a wall between Mike, Nancy, Becky and whatever other Miller "kids" followed GG's lead in shunning their own father and mother.

It is quite another for 30 to 40+ year old adults to continue to do so.  Literally hundreds of GG's victims have worked their way through the GG deception and gotten on with their lives elsewhere.  I know that Nancy was about 30 when she married JL in the 80's.
I think Mike and Becky are older than she is???

I know they started out as victims, but I think that with the years, some of the responsibility has shifted to their shoulders.  We all will give account for our own lives, and "the Devil made me do it" doesn't count for much.

Have they begun to reconcile since the "fall" of GG?  I hope so.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

[Luke Robinson]

 

thanks

   

[Chuck Miller]

I’ve seen my name being bantered about on the site for some time now, so maybe it’s time I entered the diuscussion.  Tom, you’re quite right in talking about responsibility.  I also have to bear a lot of the blame, since I as much as anyone stood and watched George take over the group that was meeting in our home.

 I had just finished writing some thoughts I have had and was ready to post, when I saw your’s and Chuck’s comments, so I’ll go ahead and post it. It covers the area of individual responsibility

    *******************************************


I have been reading on the site, some of the accounts about the abuses that have been inflicted  by the leadership in the Assembly on the saints in the Assemblies around the country.  I would like to offer a few comments
 
SOMEONE WROTE : Shame on these abusers!

Maybe it’s  time for less of  “shame on the abusers” and a little more of  “shame on me.”    To those who have allowed themselves to be subjected to such ungodly treatment  I would like to say, it’s time to put this behind and get on with your life.  That has to begin with prayer and getting into the word of God.   How many of you have studied Hebrews 13:17?   Now, please notice that I didn’t ask, “How many of you have READ Hebrews 13:17, or “How many of you have read the ASSEMBLY (GEORGE GEFTAKYS) POSITION on Hebrews 13:17?”   Rather, I asked,  “How many of you have STUDIED Hebrews 13:17?”  I  saw the question posed on the website  “What does this verse mean to the people?”  Very unwisely, and perhaps somewhat pridefully, I couldn’t wait to give my answer.   I think now that it would have been better to have said to the inquirer:

 “Dear brother, shut down your computer, go get yourself a Vines Expository Dictionary, an Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, a Strong’s Concordance and a NASB Bible and ASV version to go along with you KJV  –– and start digging.”   Study the word “obey” in the scriptures and in the reference material.  Read Mark 10 :42 and  determine how  Hebrews 13:17 can be reconciled with it.  Resolve not to give up until you do.  When you get finished you will have built a solid conviction based upon ‘rightfully dividing the word of truth’ and you won’t be fooled by the next one who comes along with their perverted concept of  ‘authority.’”

I believe the brother would have been diligent in doing so, and would have experienced the joy of  discovering for himself, a truth upon which to build a solid conviction.

I can certainly empathise with those who have suffered abuse and heartache because of the scripturally unwarranted authority exercised by the leaders in the Assembly.  But there is no excuse for continuing in ignorance as to what Jesus commanded.   It’s time recover that first love that they lost and move on in Him.

And ledt me add this:  Don’t be afraid to read commentaries, especially those that are in opposition to your own beliefs.   It will only do one of two things –– cause you to rethink what you believe  (for some of it could be wrong) and possibly even change your thinking, or ––  make your conviction even stronger in what you do believe.  

SOMEONE WROTE : "We as Christians have every right to expect that everyone who names the name of Christ would depart from iniquity, that they would indeed live a life that adorns the doctrine of Christ and God, our Saviour. We have a right to expect it!  We particularly have a right to expect it from our spiritual leaders. We had a right to expect it from George Geftakys."

Without advocating cynicism or negativism, I would say that we have no right to put our trust in men.  Understand that we can trust someone, without “putting our trust in them.” Be suspicious of those who adulate themselves, or allow themselves to be adulated or placed above others in a gathering of God’s people.  Run from those who would claim to have authority over  you by virtue of a title or office.  Test what they say by the Word of God.  Evil men will eventually betray themselves by saying or teaching things that run counter to the word of God or the instruction of Christ.   That is why it is essential to be grounded in the Word.  Much heartache and suffering could have been avoided if someone would have just asked,  “Isn’t your teaching,  and what you practice iincompatible with Jesus’ instruction concerning leaders in His church?”  They probably wouldn’t have let you stay around for long, but  wouldn’t that have been the best thing that could have happened?

SOMEONE WROTE:   “When you make friends with someone, you don’t do a background check. Same with spiritual leaders--you have goodwill and believe the best. Shame on them for breaking that trust.”

MY RESPONSE :  Love “believes all things,”  but love does not condone our unquestioning obedience to those who would lord over us.  Yes, “shame on them” for breaking that trust, but shame on us for giving it so willingly.  

SOMEONE WROTE:  Now, I am older and I can’t say that I am looking too much for guidance anymore. I have almost (almost but not entirely) given up on the possibility that I’ll find anything of value from anyone else.

MY RESPONSE :   We never stop looking for guidance because we must be constantly studying to show ourselves approved unto God (2 Tim 2:15).   Many have been deceived because they, like myself, failed to check the scriptures to determine if the teaching was scripturally correct (Acts 17:11; 1 Thess 5:21).  To  discontinue seeking guidance would preclude availing ourselves of the teachings of those whom Christ has given to the church (Eph 4:11).  Although we have the Spirit of God and need no one to teach us  (1 John 3:20, 27) we don’t disdain men who teach from the word of God.    Although none are infallible,  error or questionable teaching will become apparent upon careful scrutiny.  God is faithful and will protect those whose hearts are seeking him.   I doubt if anyone who has been deceived, didn’t  somewhere along the way, receive a conviction from the Lord that there was something “rotten in Denmark”  concerning the abusive, authoritarian conduct of the “leaders in the Assembly.   But many, like myself,  were reticent to speak out.  Shame on us.  To those who are still in the Assembly and haven’t been convinced of their deadly doctrine, I would  suggest that they openly ask the leaders how they reconcile  Hebrews 13:17 with Mark 10:42.  To anyone who is contemplating entering into fellowship  with any group of believers I would advise them to avoid like deadly  poison, any church that would elevate any one believer above another or any teacher or leader to a status of guru, whereby his teaching becomes a substitute for careful study of the word of God.

SOMEONE WROTE:  “For the most part, all I see is treachery, hidden motives, and hypocrisy. I still ask now as I did before joining the group, "Is there anyone who does what is right?" But now, even if I find such a one, I probably wouldn’t know it because I’d be suspicious. My heart was tender and open, but now it’s hard, having grown calluses from rough handling. This makes me sad. But still my hope in Jesus, the Righteous One.”

MY RESPONSE : Many are going to experience the same skepticism, while others will bask in self pity and/or bitterness and have a difficult time getting adjusted  to post Assembly life.   I’ve been there and it’s a waste of time.   Admit to and repent of your lack of diligence and your inability to discern false doctrine and ask God to forgive you for your having opened yourself up to deception.  Then see to it that you get well grounded in the word of God so that it doesn’t happen again.

Chuck Miller