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BenJapheth
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« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2003, 04:49:39 am » |
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John, I agree with Pat.
Expose sin or heal the hurt - Seek to work with the Lord to see redemption...Leave personal attacks out of any equation.
In doing so, you'd only be serving the interests of the enemy.
Your friend, Chuck
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BenJapheth
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« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2003, 05:43:59 pm » |
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Knucklehead,
I know John, and he has a habit of digressing...He has a lot to say, and when he says a lot and it means little he defeats his ability to genuinely say something of any importance.
I like John, but he drives me crazy cause he misses the moment and instead runs around bullying-up on folks that would be better left alone.
He's not ministering to Brian...He's injuring Brian and others.
John needs to chill and focus on more salient issues.
Chuck Vanasse
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BenJapheth
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« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2003, 05:54:59 pm » |
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Knucklehead,
One more thing...You're absolutely correct about Brian.
Brian, pick on someone your one size - a bit smaller. You're in over your head with Malone. I know John was traveling yesterday, I just hope he is going to to walk by your provocations.
"Don't take a dog by the ears."
One last note...No one on this site knows John Malone better than Patty Mathews, so if she starts to lecturing John, leave her alone. They're freindship goes back to when they were kids in school in Omaha. She's got John's number.
Knucklehead, I'd also take your own advice and stay out of it.
All the best, Chuck Vanasse
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SugarMagnolia
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« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2003, 07:10:30 pm » |
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And Ben...your post to John was disrespectful.... Ben you've been taken in by this fellow...be careful.
Knucklehead, I will respectfully stand by my post until you are willing to show me in what way it was disrespectful. I sincerely believe that I was standing up against abuse directed at a fellow Christian, not trying to demean an older, more experienced man. |
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« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2003, 07:19:36 pm » |
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I'm w/ you bro. Ben!
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Mark Mancuso
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« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2003, 09:23:48 pm » |
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Chuck, Pat, Ben, etc. You guys are missing the point. John M. has the unique ministry among you former lodgites (Chuck, I know you are not a former lodgite, but you are in touch with your inner lodge). He sees things very clearly as he has been out of the lodge for over 20 years. He is the one guy who has been there that will tell you the truth, and take all of your criticism in the process.
He has had the same ministry in my life. I was saved through his bible study back in 1983. John will not manipulate or stroke your ego. He will tell you your problems whether you want to hear them or not. I know that most of you do not like that. If John was a man that did not know the Scriptures this would be hard to take. He is the only man that can get through to some of you as you leave the lodge with much residue. Others on this BB that are complimenting you and stroking you are not helping you. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend." Ask Brent what he thinks of John now. Some of you that knew John 20 years ago with your lodge-colored glasses do not know him at all.
John M. has been a blessing in my life as well as in the lives of my wife and children. I have never known John to take money or desire titles or fame for ministry. I challenge you to find those qualities among those in your life that are "supposedly" doing the work.
My advise is, "Listen to him" or in other words, "Take heed."
Regards,
MM
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outdeep
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« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2003, 10:13:04 pm » |
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Mark,
The issue is that people do not like to be demeaned, name-called and (when they express offence) have the issue unjustifiably turned around on them as if they are the problem. Further, alienating your audience is not a fitting or proper way to minister.
I'm sure our brother John has ministered greatly to you and others and has said some good, true things at stategic times. No one is denying that he is part of God's family and has an important role in it.
However, I cannot in my mind justify his expression of poor social skills as "speaking the truth in love". One does not "faithfully wound a friend" with a baseball bat.
Further, I don't think being out of the Assembly for 20 years entitles him to a unique ministry and perspective. There are many who have been out for a long time and think clearly on these matters. He is one among many good men and women who may disagree on some of the issues. These disagreements should be handled respectfully, not in the caustic and overbearing way that John has developed a reputation for on line.
John has used many of the techniques that George has used on us for years - demeaning comments, name calling, condecention and blame switching. We justfied George's behavior for years using the same line of thinking you are, Mark - pointing out George's unique ministry and perspective, his desire to "be a faithful shepherd", his "being on his knees before an open Bible for 20, 30, 40 years", and the argument "we cannot have a legitimate response because we don't have the same clear vision he does".
I was young when I fell for this the first time. I'm certainly not going to fall for it again.
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psalm51
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« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2003, 10:21:35 pm » |
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Chuck, Pat, Ben, etc. You guys are missing the point. John M. has the unique ministry among you former lodgites (Chuck, I know you are not a former lodgite, but you are in touch with your inner lodge). He sees things very clearly as he has been out of the lodge for over 20 years. He is the one guy who has been there that will tell you the truth, and take all of your criticism in the process.
He has had the same ministry in my life. I was saved through his bible study back in 1983. John will not manipulate or stroke your ego. He will tell you your problems whether you want to hear them or not. I know that most of you do not like that. If John was a man that did not know the Scriptures this would be hard to take. He is the only man that can get through to some of you as you leave the lodge with much residue. Others on this BB that are complimenting you and stroking you are not helping you. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend." Ask Brent what he thinks of John now. Some of you that knew John 20 years ago with your lodge-colored glasses do not know him at all.
Mark, There is no question that John has been instrumental in the lives of many. I wish I could believe that he is getting through to many. I think he is very capable of doing so because of his experiences and his knowledge. This is not about people needing compliments or strokes, but about what the proverbs wisely say: "A man has joy in an apt answer, and how delightful is a timely word." "Like apples of gold in settings of silver is a word spoken in right circumstances." "A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." If John wants to serve the people on this website, which I know he does, I just wish that he would temper his remarks with mercy and compassion. The truth he tells is so cloaked in what many perceive as personal attacks, that the message is lost because all they see is John's skillful debating abilities and what they perceive to be angry, bitter responses. You are right that many of us, myself included, do not know John well anymore. By the same token, he does not know many of us very well anymore either. Twenty-five years is a long time and people in the assembly were changing also (at least I can speak for myself) during that time (in spite of GG, et al) because God is faithful. No one here, to my knowledge, has intimated that John wants anyone's money, or desires a title, or fame. We are here because we obviously came or are coming to our senses and realized that those "supposedly doing the work" did want just that. We have begun to remove our "lodge-colored glasses", if you will. John has a vested interest in this situation. I want to see the best happen in terms of his and my family and in the lives of others. I am just of the opinion that his methods may not bring the desired result. Pat |
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psalm51
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« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2003, 10:34:26 pm » |
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Mark,
The issue is that people do not like to be demeaned, name-called and (when they express offence) have the issue unjustifiably turned around on them as if they are the problem. Further, alienating your audience is not a fitting or proper way to minister.
I'm sure our brother John has ministered greatly to you and others and has said some good, true things at stategic times. No one is denying that he is part of God's family and has an important role in it.
However, I cannot in my mind justify his expression of poor social skills as "speaking the truth in love". One does not "faithfully wound a friend" with a baseball bat.
Further, I don't think being out of the Assembly for 20 years entitles him to a unique ministry and perspective. There are many who have been out for a long time and think clearly on these matters. He is one among many good men and women who may disagree on some of the issues. These disagreements should be handled respectfully, not in the caustic and overbearing way that John has developed a reputation for on line.
John has used many of the techniques that George has used on us for years - demeaning comments, name calling, condecention and blame switching. We justfied George's behavior for years using the same line of thinking you are, Mark - pointing out George's unique ministry and perspective, his desire to "be a faithful shepherd", his "being on his knees before an open Bible for 20, 30, 40 years", and the argument "we cannot have a legitimate response because we don't have the same clear vision he does".
I was young when I fell for this the first time. I'm certainly not going to fall for it again.
Dave, I couldn't agree more. Mark, maybe you can help John with this perspective. Will he listen to you? Does he listen to those who disagree with him? If he wants a hearing on this website I think he is going to have to take heed to people like Dave, Chuck, Verne, and, yes, even that young whippersnapper, Ben. If he refuses, then he will lose his audience. What a shame. I hope you, Bill, Reene, etc can help him see this. But, I have to wonder if you see it. Pat |
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jesusfreak
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« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2003, 10:55:30 pm » |
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hey, if you want to see something cool - change your
language selection to something like, German.
Hey now, german rocks |
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jesusfreak
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« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2003, 11:11:03 pm » |
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John, I do not have your intellect or ability to argue. I am not half your age and have not had near the amount of experience as you have. But I do know this; Your response to Brian was utterly reprehensible. It is certainly not an act of love to rip into someone who is having sincere doubts about his faith. Honestly, did you really think that THAT was going to stengthen it? Remember, "Whatsoever is not of love is not of the Father." John, that post against Brian was NOT of the Father. May God have mercy on you as He has had mercy on me.
Ben, You immediately disqualify yourself from judging the matter, which I total agree with, and you go ahead and judge the matter anyway. Now that is moving against your own conscience and is not good for YOU. Your a young fellow who needs to move about, spiritually, where your own conscience qualifies you. Do you see what I mean? You are going in circles here Knuck. Ben stated that he was not an equal of John to debate in an academic discourse, not that this 'lacking' would affect the validity of his statement. I think he mentioned it to show that John's comment does not need to be studied in an extremely careful light to be shown to be inappropiate. As for 'moving about', would you not say that this is what Ben is doing? He has moved away from the assembly standards to find out what beliefs he personally holds, and is here contributing in discussion. |
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jesusfreak
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« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2003, 11:11:44 pm » |
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Hey, just PTSD at work........
Enjoy.........
Hast thou nothing better to do? |
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BenJapheth
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« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2003, 11:58:21 pm » |
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Mark,
I come down on both sides of the John Malone phenomena...
Yes, John has something to say! However, he loses a bunch of style points on delivery, and therefore he narrows his audience to a few of us who can warm up to his fire and still stand the smoke.
Solomon says, "A wise man should grasp one thing and not let go of its opposite, for he who fears God comes forth with both of them."
I'd like to John be as bold as he has been - and even bolder (and, he and I have been emailing about this issue) - but, he has such an abrasive style it closes eyes that would otherwise be opened.
And, this is for you John....glub-glub-glub.
Muchas Gracias, Amigos!
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BenJapheth
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« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2003, 12:10:47 am » |
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Rudy! Yes! Yes! Yes! If someone wants to get personal take it off-line and spare the rest of us. Hoping for world peace...  Chuck Vanasse |
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BenJapheth
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« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2003, 12:22:55 am » |
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Rudy, Rudy, Rudy... Come-on dude..."Love believes all things"...I said "hoping" for world peace...Hey and the last chapter says there will be world peace! All things reconciled to himself... WOW! There will be peace - everywhere. To give up hope is a tragic error! He has overcome the world. Let's not lose sight of the facts, even if they're future facts. Don't despair, Rudy! I'm a pessimistic optimist...when things are real bad and getting worse, there is super potential for super good. Hoping against hope... Chuck Vanasse chuck@vanat.com |
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