Many People in the assembly were/are very Beautiful Loving People

[David Mauldin]

Many people in the Assembly were the best people I have ever met.  Many were very sacraficial and giving, One person of whom I owe much of my life (who I am) today because of his care and influence. Even when his schedule was demanding as it could get he took time to minister to people.   He encouraged me to go to college and get and education. (this was in contradiction to what others were telling me)  He even drove me, (a number of times) to downtown L.A. to register. Even though  he was "headsteward" he didn't lord it over people.  Another I could think of actually visited the elderly and dying residents of convolecent homes. He did this for many years and became a loving "son" to lonely and forgotten people. Today these people are gone but many of these
 same kind of people are still there. Perhaps we should keep this in mind.
 

[karensanford]

OK, this is weird because I thought I posted a response to this earlier, but I see that it's gone.  So if this post pops up somewhere else...oops, sorry!

David, thank you for pointing this truth out.  I know that everyone on this board has been touched by the kindness of at least one person while they were in the Assembly, or who is still in the Assembly.

Some of my dearest and most loved friends first started to become my friends when they were in the Assembly.  They were wonderful then, too.  

[Ken Fuller]

I'm glad this was said, we need to not forget that.

I had put a similar post on the St Louis board.  

There are many good stories to share of compassion and caring.  Some of the best friends and most caring people I'll ever know in this life are saints I got to know in fellowship in the "lodge" (I am curious where that phrase came from)

But I'm starting to get concerned about the deep divide that this is causing.  

I sense, stronger than ever now, that everything outside the 'little flock' huddles is evil, worldly and needs to be avoided.

I may be wrong, but the mere silence of virtually EVERYONE still in the x-assemblies gives that strong impression.  I really really wish some of the saints still in the assemblies would post something --  your silence is isolating you.

Like I mentioned before -- WE KNOW YOU'RE READING !!!  (kinda reminds me of the television fiasco -- everyone had one, but hid it)

It really looks bad that NO ONE is posting ANYTHING.  I can understand some keeping silence right now, but EVERYONE???  Seriously, is it an unwritten rule, or has everyone honestly decided ON THEIR OWN to be silent???

Please!!  TALK TO US !!!!!!!!!!!!!  We're not your enemies!!!

These stories and testimonies are real!!!!   Please, be open right now

(I don't want to lose friends and ones that I care for)

[psalm51]

Ken I don't know what you are talking about. If you read the st. Louis board you would notice that at least 5 people just from st. Louis that are still in the assembly posted. As for me so am I and I'm talking. I think nothing according to what you say and actually the quite opposite is happening. The people in the assemblies are opening up and many are seeing that Christians don't have to be in the assembly to be christians. No offense but keep your sources a little better next time.
Lord bless
Dan Sjogren

Dan,
Considering how many guests are viewing this board daily. I would say that 5 people posting from one locality is not really a valid representation. I think that was Ken's point. I think you are right that there are many who are "seeing that Christians don't have to be in the assembly to be Christians", but it will probably take some time before that is a very common way of thinking in the assemblies, because it really is not the way we have been taught to think. Read what S Evert posted as a good example of what I mean.
Good night
Aunt Pat

[MichelleDJ]

The people in the assemblies are opening up and many are seeing that Christians don't have to be in the assembly to be christians.

Is there any real, definable way to reach out to those who've not yet received this "revelation" about other Christians truly being children of God?  Or some way to have a dialogue with some of the folks still involved in the group regarding why nonAssembly-ites are not Christian?

This thought has been plaguing me for some time.  I suppose that, since I'm an outsider, I'm kinda stuck.  But!  If anyone comes up with anything, let me know!

[Ken Fuller]

Thank you Pat.

Honestly, no I don't know everyone who is in and who is out anymore (actually Pat until day before yesterday I didn't realize you and Wayne were out)

And I wasn't saying NO ONE is posting.

Of the 5 in St Louis responding, at least 4 are young adults -- high school and college.  Which is great!!  Don't get me wrong, I think the young men and women in St Louis are a HUGE positive influence in the work.  But where is everyone else???

For the most part, saints in fellowship are silent.  There are FEW, VERY FEW posting.

It's just a mysterious silence ....

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Ken, and others,

Well, things are changing so much from what they were.  We used to be very exclusive with a strange mentality of "we're better than you" and God knows this is wrong.  And know, I think we all see it.  The body of Christ, and the Bride of Christ, are not just people in the assembly, or people in the baptist church down the street, but it is the people who are choosing to serve the Lord and heed his call for salvation.  We are all part of God's plan.  

You know I can't speak for others, but I can maybe give some suggestions of why people are not posting.  This has been quite a blow to everyone of what is going on.  Some may be so devestated to write anything.  Some don't want to get into discussions about it, they just want to ignore it and just preoccupy themselves simply with following the Lord.  Some probably would rather not display their feelings on the internet.  And there still may be some that feel that this website is too controversial and they would not like to get involved.  There could be a thousand other reasons why people don't post, and frankly I wouldn't have a clue.  I personally feel this is a great place to talk about what God is doing and a place to voice my views on all that is happening.  (but all by the grace of God)  I would like to see more people write on here, but most would like to just be silent, and we can respect that, because they want what God wants.  If that means don't write, then they shouldn't write.  But I would like to see more conversation between everyone whether that be by e-mail, or personal messaging, or phone, or fax, or letter, you name it.  We need to work together on all that is going on, and together, see what God is doing.  

In no way do I think people are not writing because they see everyone that left is their enemies.  I can see the spirit of people in the assembly, and if there is little conversation, then I think that needs to change.  One example:  In St. Louis, we have a high school bible study, and many, many  people come out, and continue to come out.  These people come from two dozen different churches and gatherings around the area, but we are gathered together by Jesus Christ and the teachings of the New Testament, not our own seperate gatherings.  And many are coming to the teen conference!  This is the same attitude that all of us need to take.  It is what the Lord wants.  We are not enemies.  The enemy is out there in the world, not in the bodies of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

If I am wrong in anything that I say here, step up and say something.  Please.

Also, Ken, I would like to hear from you.  Feel free to write anytime.  

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson  

[Peacefulg]

Hi Luke, well put about why many are not posting.

And you are right I can see why some would see or feel that ones on this BB are treating them as the enemy, but let this be know MANY are praying for those in and out.  One thing that has blown me away has been the renewed friendships/relationships and I welcome being able to talk to people long past.  

I even look foward to going to a HB meeting when I go back to Cali later this year (ok I do feel that everyone needs to step away and get new perspectives, but since this may not happen they are still my brethern).  Last time I was there about a year ago it seemed so fake for the most part, but now I looking foward to being able to connect with another part of the Body of CHRIST.

Lord Bless the high school bible study and remember we were never called to make "church memebers" but disciples of CHRIST.

Lord Bless,
G

[JS]

Is there any real, definable way to reach out to those who've not yet received this "revelation" about other Christians truly being children of God?  Or some way to have a dialogue with some of the folks still involved in the group regarding why nonAssembly-ites are not Christian?

This thought has been plaguing me for some time.  I suppose that, since I'm an outsider, I'm kinda stuck.  But!  If anyone comes up with anything, let me know!

Michelle,
I just wanted to clarify something.  The "assemblies" never taught that the people outside were not Christians.  There was an elitist attitude though and that is something that I am personally repenting of.  Any group that teaches that they are the only true church is a cult.  God is bigger than any ministry or group.

Thanks,
Joel
 

[CBrown]

Luke,

You amaze me .  Keep up that clear thinking & articulating.

[MichelleDJ]

I apologize, Joel, but it seems to be more a question of semantics than anything else.  One way or another, folks purportedly have an attitude regarding other Christians.  This is what I was speaking of.  And I'd truly like to know if there's any way to reach them.  But thank you for clearing that up for me, anyway.

[garylwilson]

Dear Ken and others

I would like to echo what Luke has said.  
THE FOLLOWING POST REFLECTS MY PERSONAL CONVICTIONS AND MAY OR MAY NOT REPRESENT THE CONVICTIONS OF OTHERS IN FULLERTON.


I am still in Fullerton and have placed a number of posts.
Personally I think it is dangerous to assign motives to why we post or do
not post.  That is not to say one can not question or openly speculate.

But saints lets us remember that we are all unique individuals before God.  Why do some not post?  Here are my opinions.  But they are just my opinions.  Do you remember Davids' sin?  When God judged him, we find much silence on his part.  Why is this?  I personally find it much easier to run my mouth when I am in a painful situation.  Sometimes it would be better if I just shut my mouth and bear it.  Alright so I should
shut my keyboard down and just bear it.  I think David allowed God to work out the judgement.  He was silent to riducle.  Watchman Nee was once wrongly ex-communicated.  When others pressed him to speak he was silent.  We let God work it out.  Am I saying all should be silent.
NO. I am saying God works on us as individuals.  Throughout much of Watchman's Nees life he remained silent when he was misunderstood.
It was his personal conviction.  He was a individual before God.


So I think the following:
1)  Some are silent because they have a conviction before God that they should bear it in silence.  Let others say and think what the will.  Doesn't mean that they don't see and acknowledge the truth of what is being said.
2)  Fear / timid.  Some may be afraid to post because they fear:
     a)  What other ex assembly people will say.
     b)  What people in their assembly may say.
     c)   Don't think the can articulate clearly what needs to be said.
     d)  Fill in your own reason
3)  Some may be of the conviction that God doesn't want them to openly participate.  I if you take a contary positon to this my comment is
"Who are you to say if one should post or not post".  Should it not be a matter of individual conviction and be done before the Lord.  That should get a response.
4)   Some may think you're all wet.  Can you leave them with God?
5)  Some may have not have even considered it.  In gatherings how many are silent week after week.  Does not that mean that they have no internal response to ministry, prayer, etc.  I don't think so.
6)  Some may think that the many who are now in other places of fellowship and are doing the broad strokes posting - "All, everyone, no one, etc already think that us that remain are all mindless, in bondage,
can't think for themselves type of people - have their minds made up.  So whats the point in communicating anything.  I have stated before that those types of posting do exist.  But even in simplistic, shallow, and globalistic thinking truth may be gleaned.  
Personal note - I attribute the preceding comment to a subset of those that have pointed out negative aspects of the different gathering.  Their have been many well thought out and insightful posts.
Eric and Sheila's Foys letter is probably one of the best.  TO ALL - please
read it.  It is full of light, love and gentle correction.  They are a dear
couple.  

WHY HAVE I POSTED?  I freely admit there is a mixture in why I have posted certain things.  How about you.
1)  Hurt pride.  Yea my pride has been wounded.  I admit it.  Then you see these posts that label you as a spineless, mindless, clueless puppet.
I don't deny the truth of some of this.  However I do think I have some shreds of my mind left in which I can allow God to form me as an individual before Him.  I will not be formed by those who remain and I will not be formed by those that have gone to other places.

2)  Identification.  However small I have wanted those that have been unjustly hurt and wounded to know I do stand with them.  There hurt has touched my heart.  I have wanted all to know who are now in other places of fellowship "You are not my enemies"  We are brothers and sisters in Christ.  

3)  A soft and subtle entreaty.  Yes this is God's judgement.  But in the midst of God's judgement the enemy of our souls would love to have us devour one another.  We are brethern.  We need to stand together for God's interests.   Christ never said "If you all agree then the world will know that your are my disciples.  He said the key was LOVE.  
I am convicted and ashamed of my lack of love.   I do have some care but I want to LOVE.  If we come out here with just having played bullentin board chess then we have missed it.  I am being challenged to learn God's love.  How about you?
SO MY QUESTION TO ALL IS WHY DO YOU READ AND WHY DO YOU POST
BE HONEST.  GOD DOES SEE OUR HEARTS.

A WORD FROM FULLERTON:
I believe God is working in Fullerton.  Many are humbled.  Many are seeking God to work anew in their lives.  Many are repenting of pride and views that they have formerly held are being repented  of.  I speak more of views in the context of how we view one another and those that have CHANGED places of fellowship.
The leadership has stepped down.  Is God through with them.  Absolutely not.  I have see former leaders show great humility in bearing the current shame.  
There are ones that are showing a shepherd's care in the midst.
Last Thursday we had a time of going through a timeline of events
to David's abuse of Judy.  Their where also several former assembly
people there to add to the events.  Several of them offered rebuke,
correction, etc.  Praise God for the willingness and courage for a face to face encounter.  I believe it has been heard and received.  I believe many have been humbled by this.  We all - to varying degress - bear the shame.
This Thursday will be a in depth look at George's excommnunication and
why the leadership stepped down.  
Question:  To what I have said - Will your 1st response be to speculate
about these meetings and do the bullentin board soap opera thing OR
will it be "GOD GET YOUR WILL AND GLORY IN THIS MEETING"  Yes there was a rebuke in that sentence.  Maybe you are skeptical.  By all means be skeptical BUT PRAY.  God's peoples lives are at stake.  So pray God gets HIS way.

I can say that God has personally challenged me and I have a list of 6 items that I am trusting God for.  First an foremost.  I refuse to fear anyone.  I will not be initimated by man.  I post as my own conviction.
I speak my own conviction.  

THE OTHER SIDE:
I have tried contacting a number of former assembly people.  Some have replied some haven't.  I have been blessed by those that have responded.  I have asked several others to respond.  BUT SILENCE.  So I guess I can ask the question "what does their SILENCE mean"?
I have even contacted someone in light of sending a personal donation to Judy.  I am hestiant to put it out here -you know toot your own horn thing   But here it is.  A challenge was made to us Thursday concerning this by a person that came to our meeting.  There is are specific people to go through.  I didn't have that person's address only there email.  I responded last Friday.  I have had no reply as of today.
Makes me wonder about others.
So Brethern let's look at all sides.

A FINAL WORD:
None of what I say means that I am anything.  I am ashamed of things I have allowed in my life.  I am humbled that others have loved me in spite of my failures and sin.  I am amazed that God could love even me.
I am ashamed of how little I have allowed God to launch me out into the land of "Not knowing wither".  I have been blessed.  At times I have been given such wonderful tastes of what such a life is.  But alas I have so often drawn back.  
I entreat all of you - whether in one the assembly gatherings or one that have gone somewhere else,  We need to Love one another.  We all need to walk before God with personal conviction.

Lord bless you all

[Ken Fuller]

Gary -- VERY well said, thank you!!

I wasn't looking at this so much as an 'individual' decision as I was at the VAST gulf between those who are still in the "lodges" and those that aren't.

Of all your reasons why individuals post -- they are all great.  There is only one that disturbed me, and that is the one I was wondering just how prevelant it is:

b)  What people in their assembly may say.

It just 'appears' that there is still the "I'm afraid what the brothers might think" attitude.  

I know for a fact many are under the belief this site is energized by satan himself and are staying away.

I know there is a lot of arguing and bickering going on here (and I wish it would stop)

And there are a lot of emotions.  I realize I had gotten a little "post-happy" over the weekend and am trying to tone down (though I can't think of anything I posted that I really feel shouldn't have been)

I just see a great divide between "us" and "them" -- whoever you think "us" is and whoever you think "them" is.

I'm not coercing any individual to post.  

But I do hope anyone who WANTS to read this board or anyone who WANTS to post -- WOULD.  Regardless of if someone has told them it's "satanicaly energized" or just simply "stay away".

Isn't that what got us here in the first place?  The attitude "we know what is safe and what isn't, and it's our job to protect the sheep from any outside influences -- so if we say it's evil, just trust us and stay away" ??

I do appreciate your input Gary.  

There still is a strange 'silence' though .....

[garylwilson]

Ken

Thank you for your reply.

I agree wholeheartedly at what you said.

I know in Fullerton I haven't received any pressure or negative comments.  I must admit the thought crossed my mind.  But it turns out it was simply my thought.  One might agrue "But brother don't you see you hesitated because of past pressure".  Maybe.  But how about I had the hestitation just because that's the way I am.  I am a combo type guy.  Sometimes knowing is going to prevent me - period.  At others times afraid of my own shadow.  Say ain't that a little like Peter.

I can't comment on other gatherings.  Sounds like some places have had tremendous control and pressure exerted upon them.  THAT IS WRONG  WRONG  WRONG WRONG  WRONG.
If that is still the case, then those that practice need to see that God
hates spiritiual bullying.  And those that are bullied need to stand fast
in the liberty whereby Christ hath set them free.  For the bullied.  This
is your chance to enjoy the life of Christ.  Take a chance.  Stand up.
Speak your mind.  So you make a mistake.  Trust the Lord.
For you the more outspoken - Help the bullied.
Look,  if I a miserable stumbling failure can do it, then so can you.
I have had the thought "What will others think"  Not just those in Fullerton but just others.  Bottom line is "Who cares".


PAST REGRETS:
I )  There are so many that have left that I wish  I got to know on a more personal level.  I regret not having done that.
2)  Making my personal experience an expectation some one should
live up to or to have had.  I admit at times I have been a spiritual idiot.
3)  Not caring - or taking the time to actively listen - when someone is hurting.  You go to a meeting - you know someone is struggling - but leave it to someone else.  People don't need mashed potatoe spiritual solutions.  Some time they just need to know someone sees and someone cares.  Shame on me.  
4)  For not valuing the unqiueness of the saints.  I want to learn this
5)  For allowing fear or what others make think to dictate what I do.

I agree about the them and me thing and the bickering.   I sometimes see myself on the other side of the wall - you know the side where the stones are being thrown at.  From this moment I refuse to think we or them.  I repent of that mind set.  I am in Fullerton.  I am ashamed of my past.  But I am NOT ashamed of my brothers and sisters in Fullerton.
I count it my priviledge to be associated with ALL those that are left in Fullerton.  I stand with them and I also stand with all you that are in other places.   May God use all of US to get what HE wants.
 
I am done posting.  I will continue to read BUT I AM DONE POSTING.
If anyone wants to converse you can email me at gary@shurflo.com.
Anything I send to another may be posted.  But I am going to do
the personal thing.  There is one exception but I won't mention that.
It would be rare indeed.

Signing off

No more them and we   BUT ONE NEW MAN IN CHRIST  "US"

THANK YOU AGAIN  KEN

Lord bless Gary