Very concerned.

[editor]

Dear Moonflower

I must disagree with you.  George said, "Christ plus nothing," in one breath, then in the next, "so many of God's people settle for mere salvation!?!"

Furthermore, the bible makes no distinction about Christians who don't follow the path and remain children, etc.

In the book of Galatians, Paul addresses the legalists, who taught that Salvation began with faith, (Christ alone) but continued(to higher life, perfection, sanctification) through keeping the law.

Paul said to these poor bewitched, joyless, unfruitful brethren,  "...concerning whom again I am striving with intense effort and anguish until Christ be outwardly expressed in you."  Gal 4:19

They thought they were getting perfected, and even more holy by their legalism, (Faith plus obedience to the law) but Paul said they had no outward manifestation of Christ!  They had entered a second childhood.  He is clear, that at the beginning, before they were bewitched, they were doing just fine.

George's theology is Galatianism.  Other Christians=merely saved   Good, faithful Assembly member=trained to be sons of the house.

Also, here is another fallacy.  George teaches that the House of God is the Schoolroom of the believer.  Christ + Assembly equals growth and godliness.  There ya go!

I can go on for pages and pages, quoting George's literature ad nauseum.  In fact I have done this and will send you stuff if you want.

On the main webpage, check out the former practice section and there is an article there.

Brent

[psalm51]

Andrea,
Please send us the email.
Pat

[Andrea Denner]

Pat,
I did, but I will send it to the email that you have listed here.
Andrea

I moved my large post to a different thread.

[moonflower]

REPLY TO B. Tr0ckman:

So what you are saying is that GG made his own laws that, if they could be followed, would get you the inheritance (or get you the money   ) bad joke. He had a lot of people convinced of that, too. But when he preached "mere salvation" I took it to mean Christians who are not walking in the spirit, they are living like they did before they got saved. They know of Christ's death, but not His life.  Are you sure you aren't a Calvinist?    
I know that GG didn't live what he preached and really deserves the emmy of emmys, but I never heard him preach heaven by works.  

[Andrea Denner]

Pat,
so did you get the email, and did you get it twice?
Andrea

ps.sorry I guess I should pm this next time

[editor]

Dear Andrea

Your last post, the long one, is absolutely right on and excellent.  Dear sister, your eyes are open!  Praise God.

Dear moonflower:

The Judaizers of Galatia at least used the Old Testament Law to lend crediblility to their heresy.  George used his own half-baked, borrowed and stolen, Heavenly Vision.  The law he would have us follow is far worse than the law of Moses, but the end result is the same:

Galatians 5:  You have fallen from Grace!!

I am not a Calvinist, but you may be a Galatian and not even realize it!  I certainly was.

Ironically, what helped me in seeing this was listening to a 5-pointer named Sinclair Ferguson, teaching on the Morrow controversy, which was....the problem of mixing Grace and works!

5 Pointers can preach the Grace of God better than anyone.  I am a 3.5 pointer.  I am NOT a Geftakysite.  There is a reason the evangelical world does not believe what was "revealed" to Mr. Geftakys.  The Bible does not teach it.

Now, here is the difficulty.  Not everything George said was bad, or wrong.
A little leaven leavens the whole lump.  I submit that in time, even the good things he taught were confused and perverted by his false doctrine.

Salvation is not "mere."  The death, burial and ressurection of the Lord Jesus Christ is the wonder of wonders, the great mystery of God.  Nothing could be more profound.  How can someone washed in His blood, and saved from the penalty of sin, and the wrath to come be called "merely saved?"

If they are living in sin, let's call it that.  However, George was referring to Christians who were not living in sin, but who didn't have the Heavenly Vision, and didn't go to the Assembly when he said "merely saved."

Again, it's all in his books.  Ever read one?

Brent

[editor]

While I'm on the topic, here is something I dug up from a previous post on this thread:

"I put my faith in God, and the leaders that He chooses."  by Luke Robinson.

This is a great example of George's false teaching about church government.  Where does it ever say to put faith in men?

Let God be true and every man a liar!  Romans 3

Putting faith in men, especially if you give these men control over your life, is Idolatry!
That's how the whole scam is foisted.  Submission to leaders becomes a virtue, even when the leaders are debauched, immoral men!

Have faith in God alone, test all things, do not believe every spirit, because many false prophets have gone into the world.

Brent

[editor]

Here is one article, there are others:


http://geftakysassembly.com/Geftakys.htm

Brent

[BenJapheth]

Brent,

George not only plagiarized Lang, Panton, Govett, Dillow, Chitwood, et. al....But, he did a lousy job teaching these great authors.

The overcomers promises all come down "to running the race" - with and by grace - to win the prize - by grace...All the conditional promises and rewards have to do with proximity to Christ not inclusion/exclusion.

Like my days as a little kid playing ball was all for my Dad's commendation "Good Job, Chuck...Way to Go!"  So, now the race is "to lay hold of that for which Christ laid hold of me" to be glorified with Him and hear "Well done, Chuck!  You're a good and faithful servant."  Of course, I'm right with God and I've got God's grace - Just like the boy has the bat and ball.  Now I want to swing and hit the ball and show my Dad above that I can employ his Grace.  It's all Grace, it's all Him.

Oh, Lord, I didn't do anything it WAS ALL BY YOUR GRACE!

George distorted some wonderful writings...I can see something things are ready to go under the ban, that really shouldn't go there.

Sometime, Brent, when I come to SLO...I would love to debate you on these issues.  Perhaps, our only audience would be our wives, cause like I said yesterday the "teaching" itself doesn't seem to change the result one way or another for most people.  

By the way, yesterday you were a 3.7 point Calvanist...Now you're a 3.5 point Calvanist today...Did our conversation back you off of 2/10 of a percent?

[moonflower]

Brent,

The overcomers promises all come down "to running the race" - with and by grace - to win the prize - by grace...All the conditional promises and rewards have to do with proximity to Christ not inclusion/exclusion.

Like my days as a little kid playing ball was all for my Dad's commendation "Good Job, Chuck...Way to Go!"  So, now the race is "to lay hold of that for which Christ laid hold of me" to be glorified with Him and hear "Well done, Chuck!  You're a good and faithful servant."  Of course, I'm right with God and I've got God's grace - Just like the boy has the bat and ball.  Now I want to swing and hit the ball and show my Dad above that I can employ his Grace.  It's all Grace, it's all Him.

Oh, Lord, I didn't do anything it WAS ALL BY YOUR GRACE!

George distorted some wonderful writings...I can see something things are ready to go under the ban, that really shouldn't go there.

This is exactly what I believe. It is what I thought that GG preached.

[editor]

Hi chuck

I am an unstable man!  My Calvinmeter fluctuates!  Today I am a 3.5, but i could go all the way to 3.675 by morning!

I would love to debate sometime on these things.  Seeing as how you read my book, and know where I am coming from, I think it would be great.

I suggest using my yacht as the debate forum,  beam reaching at 5 or 6 knots, on a smooth sea.  that's the proper place to discuss topics of that nature.

Brent

BTW, I am quite serious.

[editor]

Dear Moonflower

I am glad that you may believe "this" but it is NOT what George preached.  Neither is it what most of the Assembly practiced.

Good for you, nevertheless.

Brent

[Arthur]

While I'm on the topic, here is something I dug up from a previous post on this thread:

"I put my faith in God, and the leaders that He chooses."  by Luke Robinson.

This is a great example of George's false teaching about church government.  Where does it ever say to put faith in men?

Let God be true and every man a liar!  Romans 3

Putting faith in men, especially if you give these men control over your life, is Idolatry!
That's how the whole scam is foisted.  Submission to leaders becomes a virtue, even when the leaders are debauched, immoral men!

Have faith in God alone, test all things, do not believe every spirit, because many false prophets have gone into the world.

Brent

Um, perhaps he means not faith in them as in for eternal salvation or as in trusting for every need or as in for every decision in life, but to trust them as the guides they should be, that God gives to us, right?

I'd still like an answer to my question a long, long ago in a thread far away,

"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. "

In an earlier post you said that "obey" means to be persuaded by.  Ok, I looked it up and sure enough.  But there is more to the verse.  "Obey...and submit yourselves..."  I looked that one up too, but I want to hear your take on it.  (And while your at it, how bout all those verses about elders in my story that Rod brought up.)

Arthur

[BenJapheth]

The quotes that Brent has from George, that I saw at the link he provided, are twisted Kingdom teachings and applications...My point - don't throw the baby out with the bathwater....However, since the bathwater was killing people in the assembly by the toxic droppings of the baby (twisted applications...usurping grace)...Perhaps, we need to quarantine the baby, too (put the Kingdom teachings under a quisi-ban).  But, that's too bad.  

Moreover, most ex-assembly folk will be attending a one man clerical pastor church in a few years; where 90% of the folks are primarily observers...with lots of denominational stuff...That too is perhaps a necessary thing as well since the "Brethren" example they had was so distorted.  But, again, this is sad to me.

I never was in the assembly and am leading a very simple,  functional, non-legalistic/non-Galatian home church...Like the assembly in many ways without the rigorous structure, and without having a monster...tons of liberty and freedom, sweet and we KNOW we're not God's "special people" on planet earth.  But, we sure like the simplicity and purity of a little gathering where everyone participates and no one is anonymous.

However, lots of ex-assembly folk will probably need some anonymity for a while - to get lost in the crowd.  Some will never want to see a "Brethren" type church again...Sad, but I totally understand.

Brent,

The overcomers promises all come down "to running the race" - with and by grace - to win the prize - by grace...All the conditional promises and rewards have to do with proximity to Christ not inclusion/exclusion.

Like my days as a little kid playing ball was all for my Dad's commendation "Good Job, Chuck...Way to Go!"  So, now the race is "to lay hold of that for which Christ laid hold of me" to be glorified with Him and hear "Well done, Chuck!  You're a good and faithful servant."  Of course, I'm right with God and I've got God's grace - Just like the boy has the bat and ball.  Now I want to swing and hit the ball and show my Dad above that I can employ his Grace.  It's all Grace, it's all Him.

Oh, Lord, I didn't do anything it WAS ALL BY YOUR GRACE!

George distorted some wonderful writings...I can see something things are ready to go under the ban, that really shouldn't go there.

This is exactly what I believe. It is what I thought that GG preached.

[BenJapheth]

Hey Brent...

A debate would be great!   I'd love it...You know, I'd enter as a learner.  

I couldn't lose...Cause if you were right and I'm wrong - I win!  cause I'd learn something about the Lord and His ways that makes what is already a wonderful, incredible thing even more wonderful, incredible and now marvelous!

If I'm right and you're wrong...Well, hopefully you'll put up a couple of decent arguments that will cause me to delve more deeply into these marvels of God's ways concerning His mysterious Kingdom...And since the Lord says seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness, which is what this debate is all about....Getting a better map on finding His Kingdom way would be a super benefit.

I lose - I win...I win - I win.  I like that kind of deal.

First question - Is it possible you could be wrong?  My answer to that question is:  Yes!  I could be wrong, you could be wrong, or we both could be wrong.

What's your answer to that question?

Last - Yep, a sailboat would be a perfect setting for such a debate!

And, since you're not in the assembly anymore, I'll bring the red wine...You know you shouldn't just have water exclusively, you should really have a little wine for your stomach (I knew all my scripture memorization was going to come in handy)  

Hi chuck

I am an unstable man!  My Calvinmeter fluctuates!  Today I am a 3.5, but i could go all the way to 3.675 by morning!

I would love to debate sometime on these things.  Seeing as how you read my book, and know where I am coming from, I think it would be great.

I suggest using my yacht as the debate forum,  beam reaching at 5 or 6 knots, on a smooth sea.  that's the proper place to discuss topics of that nature.

Brent

BTW, I am quite serious.