ASSEMBLY HISTORY and why it is important.

[Toni Fuller]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth.  Many good questions, but as messed up as it is now, I can look back and I spent much time before I moved out of my parents home into a sisters apt. and this was 20+yrs ago.  I spent time away from mtgs. on my knees with the word of God open and the Lord gave me a specific promise.  Maybe where He lead me wasn't the best, but it was better than what I was getting at the Catholic church....nothing.  I was lost, confused, etc. and I made many dear friends over the years in many places.  I'm out now and wouldn't go back, yet I know that God used this ministry IN SPITE OF GEORGE.  Let's face it, God used Baalam's donkey!!!

[outdeep]

After we left the Assembly in 1990, we went to Creek Park Community Church in La Mirada, CA.  There, I met a godly man who was an elder named Lenny.

Lenny had a successful manufacturing business, treated his employees well and was a POW in WWII.   You never had a short conversation with Lenny as he always had a gracious word about the how the Lord was sovereignly using you for His glory.  He was one of the most affirming and gracious man I had ever met.

I remember one of the first time I saw Lenny.  He was pushing a dust mop around the cafeteria after a Sunday night fellowship.  I watched in awe thinking "I would never see an elder in the Assembly, let alone George, pushing a mop after a fellowship."

Over the course of time, I found out that Lenny had met George.  Lenny, who is from and lives in Whitter, had talked to him before.  When I asked him how he knew George he said,  "well, a few of us from the Whittier church went over to talk to him.  We told him to get a job."

Lenny never mentioned to me the added element of George's extra-curricular activities with his Whittier neighbor.  I think that was part of Lenny's gracious character.  (Though it is possible that he just didn't know about it).

It's rather enlightening to compare the behavior of these two different elders (George and Lenny).  Lenny helped me see in the flesh that not everyone is like George.  God indeed forms those who are truly His gracious servants.

Find people who are truly godly, gracious, compassionate, and kind.  Imitate their faith.

[editor]

Dear Dave

Your story of Lenny is shockingly similiar to one of my own.  

In the Assembly, you know who the leaders are the very first meeting you attend.  After every meeting they announce their names and let everyone know they are "available to pray with, or ask questions."  Also, praying for the leaders, who are mentioned by name, is always the number one prayer request for each Assembly.

In contrast, at Calvary, we didn't know who the other pastors were for over a month.
There was this one guy though, he always smiled, and made everyone feel totally welcome.  He was always carrying something, pushing a broom, helping to carry a wheelchair up the stairs, driving someone to or from the meeting, making coffee, filling water bottles, carting sound equipment, etc.

This man, Chris, was the Assistant Pastor, and I have yet to meet a person more humble, and full of joy.  As we got to know Chris, we found him to be totally transparent.  He would ask us to pray for him, and would tell us how he was struggling in some area of his life.  He always had time for us, and always, always, was praying for someone.

Chris was intrumental in getting Kirk Cesaretti out of the SLO gathering, as well as Eulaha.

It was he, that restored my trust in Christian leaders.

I am convinced that a healthy church has Lenny's and Chris's amongst the leadership/eldership.

Brent

[Arthur]

That would be a nice find, but, I am sad to say, I am suspicious of all pastors and elders.  
Heh, I take the promise John 2:24-25
"But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,  And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man. "
I wish Jesus were here on earth, I think he's about the only person I could totally trust.
I suppose you'd say to me that the life and spirit of Jesus is here on earth.  As Bonhoffer said, "The life of Jesus Christ on the earth has not ended, but is continued on in his disciples." At one time, I thought I saw that, but it turned out to be a hoax.  Could it really be so?  It would be nice.

[David Mauldin]

Arther,  I do not believe God spoke to me.  I believe I was guided into fellowship by a group of people who were just  exercising the same ideation that was constantly being thrown at them.  example:  a visitor starts attending more and more meetings at the assembly.  A leading brother takes notice.  He approaches the visitor, "What would you think about "praying" about Gods will concerning your life living in a brothers house?"  "O.K. "  thinks the visitor,  "Praying" sounds pretty reasonable"  "It's not like anyone is telling me what to do with my life"  " The visitor is under the impression, "I am asking Gods to tell me"  Yet unbenown to the visitor is thta the same leading brother has an agenda,  he has gone to another individual and said, "i want you to ask that (Visitor) if he would like to move into your home!"  By the next Bible Study  the visitor is amazed at how God is leading in his life .  WoW! he exclaims "I was just praying that God would show me if it was his will that I move into a brothers house"

[Arthur]

Never once did God speak to you while with those people?  Did he speak to you any other times?
No doubt that deceit occurred, but there were some things that could not have been arranged by the leading bro's.  
I still believe in God and in Jesus Christ.  I'm not turning from him.  Its just men that are suspect.  Jesus was the only one who always did that which pleased the Father and who died for my sins.  

[outdeep]

Author,

Brother, not every one is George.  I pray for you that God will help you trust again.  There are good people out there.  Really.  Get involved in a small group or a men's breakfast or a Sunday school and give it time.  Stay away from controllers, but watch the habits and conducts of those who truly have a shepherds heart.

Others:

I'm still not clear on what people mean by whether or not God called you.  I have often heard Christians talk like this:

"I was riding down street and God spoke to me to go to McDonalds.  Then I go, 'Lord, I want to go to Burger King', but the Lord said, 'no McDonalds'.  So then I said, 'OK, God' and went the McDonalds and then - Praise the Lord - there was brother Mel and we had this awesome time of fellowship so I go, 'Thank you God'"

I personally never had, to my knowledge, God speak to me directly and consciously.  He never appeared physically to me.  I never received direction in a dream.  I have had impressions on my heart, but none were trustworthy (though at the time, I might have thought they were).  After all, if the person above went to Burger King, he might have found sister Susan and had an even greater time of fellowship.

Bottom line:  I came into fellowship because in my 18 year old mind, I wanted to get on with Jesus.  I wanted to be with some energetic Christians who were serious about God.  I wanted God's best.  I wanted out of my parents house and wanted to be a part of Jesus' great commission.  I thought this was what I was getting from the group so I decided to cast my lot in with them.

Over time, I grew and got some new information.  Based on this new information, I decided I did not want to be with this group anymore.

I don't know if you call this God's call, but he certainly allowed it to happen, used the experience in my growth and it helped make me the person  I am today.

As David Jeremiah said, "God's will is like the Hebrew Bible.  It only makes sense when you read it backwards."  Thus, in my opinion, God's Providential hand only makes sense when we look back on our lives and see how God used the difficult circumstances to form us -  not when we try to ascertain what to do in the future.

Can you help me understand exactly what you mean by God calling you(or not calling you) into the Assembly?  Is God's mystical calling even a something we should be seeking?  If so, how do I know when I really got it?

Thanks,

-Dave

[Arthur]

Thank you verne, that was encouraging.  I want to be clear on one thing, should we put our trust in men?  I don't mean, put our trust in as in eternal salvation, but should we listen to men, be taught by men, follow similar practise as other men? That'd be hard for me to do.  

[Arthur]

I'm still not clear on what people mean by whether or not God called you.  I have often heard Christians talk like this:

"I was riding down street and God spoke to me to go to McDonalds.  Then I go, 'Lord, I want to go to Burger King', but the Lord said, 'no McDonalds'.  So then I said, 'OK, God' and went the McDonalds and then - Praise the Lord - there was brother Mel and we had this awesome time of fellowship so I go, 'Thank you God'"

I personally never had, to my knowledge, God speak to me directly and consciously.  He never appeared physically to me.  I never received direction in a dream.  I have had impressions on my heart, but none were trustworthy (though at the time, I might have thought they were).  After all, if the person above went to Burger King, he might have found sister Susan and had an even greater time of fellowship.

Bottom line:  I came into fellowship because in my 18 year old mind, I wanted to get on with Jesus.  I wanted to be with some energetic Christians who were serious about God.  I wanted God's best.  I wanted out of my parents house and wanted to be a part of Jesus' great commission.  I thought this was what I was getting from the group so I decided to cast my lot in with them.

Over time, I grew and got some new information.  Based on this new information, I decided I did not want to be with this group anymore.

Yes, exactly the same for me! Except I was 19 and just moved out of the house to tranfer to Cal Poly.  I also never got this voice from heaven, I just figured this is best and this is what the Bible says and these guys are great to be with and earnestly seeking God, which is the very thing that I wanted to do.

I don't know if you call this God's call, but he certainly allowed it to happen, used the experience in my growth and it helped make me the person  I am today.

That gives me some hope.  How long did it take before you could think normally again?  It's been almost two years now for me.

Can you help me understand exactly what you mean by God calling you(or not calling you) into the Assembly?  Is God's mystical calling even a something we should be seeking?  If so, how do I know when I really got it?

All the circumstances around meeting the group and my first few months with the group seemed to indicate that God was leading.  But these were secondary to the reasons that I listed above.

[Arthur]

Arthur:
I have literally wept as I consider how many will be asking that very question. It is my own conviction that there are servants of the Lord Jesus Christ who truly bear His likeness and who are worthy of our trust. I trust you will meet many dear friend...

Thanks verne. I hope so too.  

[Joe Sperling]

Concerning the comments below about God calling one
to go to McDonald's instead of Burger King I just have to say
that that would be unscriptural. He would be far more likely to call one to Wendy's because the Burgers are foursquare and not round. I thought I would just point that out.

Thanks, Joe

[retread]

Concerning the comments below about God calling one
to go to McDonald's instead of Burger King I just have to say
that that would be unscriptural. He would be far more likely to call one to Wendy's because the Burgers are foursquare and not round. I thought I would just point that out.

Thanks, Joe

What about In-N-Out Burger, at least they have scripture references on their packaging:

Soda Cup: John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Shake Cup: Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Water Cup: John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Hamburger: Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Double-Double: Nahum 1:7
The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.

Has anybody found any others?

[M2]

My name is Marcia Marinier aka MGov aka M2(MM). I have been involved with the assembly in Ottawa, Canada since January 1982.

I am thinking along these lines with regards to assembly matters.

quote--
George's life is a quintessential lie.  He postured as if he had advanced degrees and knowledge, when in fact he merely completed a four year bachelor's degree in just over 6 years.

He pretended to be a great servant of Jesus Christ, when in fact he was disciplined in several churches for adultery, prior to being led to start his "ministry."

No lie is of the truth.  We know who the father of lies is; Jesus identified him as Satan.
--end-quote

This state effected his ministry in the broad sense, ie his preaching, his counsel, his direction, his demeanor, his example. That which he preached had enough of the truth to convince us that what we were getting from George was actually 'meat'. "Like so much of what he taught, the grain of truth it sometimes contained made it doubly lethal."(quote)

quote--
The most striking example of George's demonic energy is the fact that we actually thought we were following a godly man, even Christ.  The fact is, we were deceived and God delivered us from George, even though many were not willing for it.  God did it out of mercy.
--end-quote

On January 1st, 2003 we were convinced that George's leadership was from the Lord, and then the moment after reading the letter of excommunication we were convinced otherwise. The question arises as to how much spiritual discernment do we possess after being subject to George Geftakys' ministry for the past 20+ years. I would even go so far as to say that we have grieved the Holy Spirit by subjecting ourselves to the deception of George's teaching, such that our spritual judgement is clouded. I am speaking in general terms here, because there will always be individual instances of exceptions to the rule.

George Geftakys has had his hand in the assemblies to such a degree that the testimonies have been tainted by his influence. When I was saved and came out to the meetings I knew the Lord's presence in our midst, but I cannot say that anymore. George's influence has slowly but surely lead us to the condition we are in today.

If we humbly accept the Lord's correction in our lives then He can work. Otherwise, He will have to take drastic action to bring us to our senses, OR allow us to continue in our deception.

Though many of us were 'sincerely' deceived, we still run the risk of this:
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.' Mat 7:22-23

Lord bless,
Marcia Marinier

[Joe Sperling]

I found out something very interesting while reading
last night. I was reading a small book by Kenneth Wuest,
who actually has a Bible translation that is very good--
he was scholar and theologian. The book I was reading was
a Greek word study in 2 Peter.

When it speaks of the false teachers it says they will "secretly bring in damnable heresies". It was interesting because when you read that you think of some extreme heresy. But Wuest says the translation literally means they will "come up alongside the truth". In other words they will preach much of the truth, but bring in error in a "secret, covered" way. Their error will be intermingled with the truth, making it harder to discern what is really wrong. When you think of it, Paul says "from among yourselves they will arise". Now how would that be possible amongst true Christians unless it was brought in
"secretly"? At first almost unrecognizable, but then after time a full blown heresy.

George taught much of the truth. Much of what he said was "right on" according to what we all accept as Christian doctrine. That would hold you in place. "Well, George teaches the Trinity, Jesus is God, The virgin birth, etc.--he must be a true preacher of God." But what if he could bring in enough falsity and error mixed with the truth to stumble many believers? What if the enemy used him in this way?

The same passage speaks of these teachers "entrapping" people who have "just escaped the evil in the world ". It's as if he grabs them before they have truly been instructed in the ways of Grace, and deceives them with a truth that isn't quite the truth. It looks like it enough to fool a new believer, but it is mixed with error.
this is exactly what happened to me. I was saved, and really pretty stupid, saw a sign for a Bible Study and started going to Assembly meetings. I always knew inside something "wasn't quite right" and wanted to escape it, but the truth that was there held me as I fought against the error. There was just enough truth to fool me, but enough error to throw on the warning light.

Many of these teachers make themselves known fairly quickly and veer way away from the truth. Many of them
are not Christians at all. I believe George is a Christian and
is saved. But I do believe that he allowed himself to be instructed in error. He veered into the error mentioned in Galatians, "having begun in the Spirit, are you now perfected in the flesh?" And by doing so he "enslaved"  many people in his legalistic system. His "heresy" damaged many lives as is seen by the testimonies on this Bulletin Board and in other places.

And I feel when he was "excommunicated" many in the Assemblies were made to realize that what they had suspected all along was true. There WAS something wrong with the place. I think this was an Exodus of freedom for many---actually relieved that they could finally go. They had been deceived into believing the Assembly was God's "only will for them" and to leave was to disobey God. For others a deep feeling of being "ripped off" immediately set in. And for the few a feeling of  sadness that their positions of authority were now jeopardized.

And I believe that is how people could believe something was "God's will" up to the time of the "excommunication". Manipulation through deceit, and a counterfeit system that "looked" very much like what is real, but shrouding error. This system kept many in bondage even up to the very end.

What is a shame are the one's who want to continue this system. It's like someone who has been in Federal prison for twenty years. They get out and don't know what to do. They are so used to prison life they almost prefer it. They are "taken care of", don't have to think for themselves, and are slaves to the system. Many of them commit crimes right away so they can return. Inside they feel "safe" and can be heads of gangs and have some authority. They actually prefer the "cell" to the freedom "outside". And such are those who seek to continue a system that is filled with legalism and control. Thank God for what he has done in revealing the Assembly for what it really is.

-Joe

[M2]

Joe,

An excellent post about error being intermingled with the truth, making it harder to discern what is really wrong.

However, if one is deceived how does one 'realize' his/her condition of deception?

MM