I feel good here

[MichelleDJ]

Paul, this is exactly the thinking that keeps Assembly members in the dark.

I found a great commentary on this passage online (Christian Living site, I think).  Here are some excerpts:

There is one passage of scripture that is known by every reprobate and enemy of Christianity. They may know nothing else of the Bible, but be assured they know this one: "Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matt. 7:1). It is used as a weapon by the worldly, the lukewarm, trouble-makers, unbelievers, and false teachers in an attempt to disarm faithful children of God. We are told that condemning sin is judging. Reproving, rebuking, and exhorting is judging. Preaching and practicing the Bible doctrine of separation from the world is judging. Refusal to bid Godspeed to false teachers is judging. Attempts to obey Bible teaching on church discipline is branded as the most shameful judgment of all. What does the Bible teach about judging?

The primary meanings of the words commonly translated judge, krino, anakrino, and diakrino are respectively "separate, select, choose; examine, investigate, question; separate throughout, discriminate, discern." Sometimes judge denotes "sinful action," but sometimes it means "permitted or even required action." As always, the context will enable us to determine how the word is being used.

In the first few verses of Matthew 7, it is clear that the Lord is not condemning all judging, rather a particular kind of judging. Verses 3-5 show the Lord is condemning hypocritical or Self-righteous judging.

(quotes Mt 7:3-5)

What right do we have to condemn another when we are guilty of the same sin, perhaps to a greater degree? Paul makes it clear what our attitude should be in attempting to restore another: "Brethren, even if a man be overtaken in any trespass, ye who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to thyself, lest thou also be tempted" (Gal. 6:1). Self-righteous and hypocritical judging is also condemned in Romans 2:1-3, 17-23.

The context of Matthew 7:1-5 proves that corning to a negative conclusion about someone is not necessarily unrighteous judging. In verse six Jesus warns against casting pearls before swine and giving that which is holy to the dogs. Since it is obvious he is talking about two-legged swine and dogs, it is necessary for us to come to a conclusion about who are swinish and who are doggish. This constitutes a necessary and righteous judgment. We are also forbidden to judge things we cannot know such as the motives and secret thoughts of others. "Wherefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall each man have his praise from God" (I Cor. 4:5). No one has the right to draw conclusions without sufficient evidence. To do so is to violate what Paul commanded. But he did not forbid all manner of judging. In the next chapter Paul says that he had judged the fornicator in the church at Corinth and commanded the Corinthians to do the same. Paul was saying in I Corinthians what Christ said in John 7:24: "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

[snip]
These, then, are the kinds of judging that are condemned in the Bible:

Hypocritical or self-righteous judging
Judging without sufficient evidence
Making a law where God made none
Pronouncing eternal condemnation on another

As was pointed out above, some of the meanings of the words translated judge are "select, choose, examine, and discern." Judging is examining evidence and drawing conclusions or making choices. It is possible to do this in unfair or ungodly ways. Such judging is wrong. However, certain kinds of judging are commanded. "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). Since righteous judgment is judging according to reality, we have no right to prejudge, but we do have the right and obligation to draw conclusions about people or doctrine that are warranted by the evidence. If it is always wrong to draw conclusions about people, how could we obey the following commands?

(quotes commands in Mt 7)

In the same context Christ said:

By their fruits ye shall know them (Matt. 7:20).
Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision (Phil. 3:2).
Them that sin reprove in the sight of all, that the rest also may be in fear (I Tim. 5:20).
For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith (Titus 1:13).
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God (I John 4:1).

We are commanded to preach the gospel, to contend for the faith, and to reprove, rebuke, and exhort (Mark 16:15-16; Jude 3; 2 Tim. 4:2). To obey these commands in an uncompromising, but kind way is not to be guilty of unrighteous judging. To teach truths from the Bible that imply that some will be lost is not ungodly judging. It is not sinful to arrive at conclusions based on what the Bible teaches and to hold fast to those conclusions. The Bible says, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (I Thess. 5:21). Hold the pattern of sound words which thou hast heard from me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 1: 13).

We are commanded to judge those church members who are ungodly and will not repent. Such judging is not only not sin but is positively required of us. Paul said lie had already judged the fornicator in the Corinthian church and urged the church at Corinth to do the same (I Cor. 5:3-5). The word judge as used by Paul here means "not only to reach a conclusion, but to act upon that conclusion" by withdrawing from an ungodly brother. "For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked men from among yourselves" (I Cor. 5:12-13).

Let us be careful that we are not guilty of prejudging, self-righteous judging, or hypocritical judging, but do not let false teachers and ungodly brethren intimidate us from boldly preaching the gospel and steadfastly standing for the truth. Let us "judge righteous judgment."

Sorry this was so long, but I thought it was wholly worthwhile right now.  My posts are getting longer and longer - my apologies.  I'll shorten them down considerably in the future.

[Rudy]

Essentially, this is not "gossip". There are court records, etc.
Also, just because there are people (who are risking allot by
coming out into the open) telling their stories, doesn't mean
they are lying. I have more reason to believe a victim that
the ones that have without a doubt been playing politics. I
think it is agreed that those that get ahead in politics are not
on the level, eh ?

And as a side note - the accused have access and/or information
as to the goings on here. We are not doing anything in a corner,
it is all in the "open". They can and should defend themselves
before this "cyber" church as it were.

[wolverine]

Michelle,
I must have ADD or something because I just can't finish your entire post...too long...were you knocking what I was saying or what I was responding to???

BrentTr0ckmanFan

[MichelleDJ]

Paul, I was responding to your last post with the first line of mine.

I was also quoting a commentary for Phil and anyone else interested about Mt 7 and the dogs and swine comment.  We ARE called to "judge" our brethren, with righteous judgment.

The commentary was rather good, I thought (esp. since I didn't write it) so you may want to take some Ritalin and try again!  

[M2]

In February and March the brothers had a series of 'General Brother's Meetings(GBM)' on Sunday afternoons, instead of the Sunday afternoon meetings.  The result of those meeting was that the brothers decided to reduce the 'assembly meetings' load on the saints.  Along with other decisions, they also decided to have GBMs once a month in order to re-evaluate GG's teachings to see where his teachings had veered away from the truth.

To date this has not happened because there is always some issue or another to discuss. Also the brothers are so busy with regular assembly busyness (preparing ministry, going to meetings, preaching the gospel, etc. etc. etc.) that they have not had the time to even study and consider where GG's teachings have digressed from the truth.  On some of those teachings like 'rewards' they are convinced that GG was on the button, and the brothers are not even considering re-evaluating that teaching.

So where is the change that realy matters. Me-thinks that they are pendulum swinging, rather than following the leading of the Bible and the Spirit.

Yep!  Naturally, we tend to go to one extreme, and then the other.

This reminds me of a quote that my best friend read to me after we left in January.  I had put it in the quotes section...

"The devil has driven the pendulum far beyond its proper point of rest, and when he has carried it to the utmost length that he can, and it begins by its own weight to swing back, he probably will set in, and drive it with the utmost fury the other way; and so give us no rest; and if possible prevent our settling in a proper medium.  What a poor, blind, weak and miserable creature is man, at his best estate!  We are like poor helpless sheep; the devil is too subtle for us.  What is our strength! What is our wisdom!  How ready are we to go astray!  How easily are we drawn aside into innumerable snares, while in the meantime we are bold and confident, and doubt not but we are right and safe!  We are foolish sheep in the midst of subtle serpents and cruel wolves, and do not know it.  Oh how unfit are we to be left to ourselves!  And how much do we stand in need of the wisdom, the power, the condescension, patience, forgiveness, and gentleness of our good Shepherd! (pg. 246 - Iain Murray Jonathan Edwards, a new biography)

Praise God, He can give us that equilibrium!!!

Andrea

Marcia