Taboos as an AK

[BeckyW]

I have a relatively very minor question for AK's.  Was Valentine's Day taboo?  Let's say you had a class party at your elem. school.  Would you have been participating?  I ask because in my experience the West Coast Influence seemed to really frown upon anything Valentine's Day.  Midwesterners I knew looked at it differently, and had fun with it.
I know it matters little, but I'd still like to know.
BW

[Kimberley Tobin]

I can't speak for Fullerton, but in the SF Valley we didn't have a problem with Valentine's - with a caveat.  We would purchase valentine's at the local christian book store and it certainly wasn't endorsed for the teens to participate with anything re: the opposite sex (the intended purpose of Valentine's Day.)  But for the harmless elementary school party - we participated.  At least I didn't get entreated for it.....who knows, I did tend to be on the rebellious side.

[Scott McCumber]

We were always allowed to take the innocuous little cards for the class exchange when I was in elementary school.

Of course, there was no such thing as "innocuous" from junior high on. No Valentines, no dances, etc.

The dancing was a big thing. I had the impression from adults in the Assembly that if I were to attend a junior high dance, I would be overcome with lust and there would be a giant orgy of seventh graders on the cafeteria floor as all the chaperones (who were, of course, not Assemblyites) snickered on their way out to go sacrifice a goat or something.

Ah, good times. Good times.

S

[Oscar]

Tom and all,
Speaking of Great Potatoes, I've been thinking on and off during this past year how we learned to see things through "assembly eyes".  Like when Mrs. Potato in Toy Story told Mr. Potato to pack his "angry eyes".  Part of starting over for us has been to say, wait, how should we look at this without assembly eyes on?  For instance; baptism.  A young person wants to be baptized.  In the assembly that meant certain things.  But the Bible doesn't say, get baptized right before your first teen team.  It doesn't say don't pray aloud in a group before you're baptized.  It doesn't say wear headcoverings now, if you are a young lady being baptized. It doesn't say now that you're baptized you can take part in the Lord's supper. I don't bring this up to discuss baptism, but as a recent example of our need to look at things without "assembly eyes" on.
I'm glad for your family and former assembly's sake, Tom, that you were a more independent sort of Great Potato.
Just small fries,
Becky

Becky,

Personally, I have always had real reservations about baptizing youngsters before their teen years.

The reason is that it is in the teen years that young people can really understand that one must "count the cost" to be a disciple of Christ.

After all, you could get small children to pray to receive the Spirit of Barney if you were to try.  They believe what their parents tell them.

(Then come the teenage years where they only believe what the wise 15 year-old sages tell them)    

Having said this, I know some good Christians who received Christ at an early age and were baptized at 5 or 6 and have continued in that path all their lives.

However, I think the number of young people who "receive Christ" and are baptized at an early age, only to leave the Lord as young adults far exceeds the first group.

The practice of only allowing baptized believers to share in the Lord's Supper goes back to the first century.  It is a primitive Christian tradition.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[Oscar]

I have a relatively very minor question for AK's.  Was Valentine's Day taboo?  Let's say you had a class party at your elem. school.  Would you have been participating?  I ask because in my experience the West Coast Influence seemed to really frown upon anything Valentine's Day.  Midwesterners I knew looked at it differently, and had fun with it.
I know it matters little, but I'd still like to know.
BW

Becky,

Having raised 4 AK's I had to make some decisions about these things.

I just let them go with the flow, except for the trick or treat thing.

However, they got a bang out of handing out candy to the T or T kids.

One of my daughters wished to go to the prom, and I didn't let her. Not because they were dancing, but because the guy who asked her wasn't a Christian.  I still don't beleive in dating non-Christians.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[editor]

I have a relatively very minor question for AK's.  Was Valentine's Day taboo?  Let's say you had a class party at your elem. school.  Would you have been participating?  I ask because in my experience the West Coast Influence seemed to really frown upon anything Valentine's Day.  Midwesterners I knew looked at it differently, and had fun with it.
I know it matters little, but I'd still like to know.
BW

In SLO, several families, LB's all of them,  didn't participte in Valentine's,  St. Patrick's, or any other day.

They would take the kids out of class during these times.  One of the teachers, who knew we were,  "part of the group," asked us a few questions about our beliefs----we let our kids be in the class but downplayed everything---at which time she told us that one of the LB wives told her that,  "They used to kill Christians on St. Patrick's day, that's why we don't celebrate it."  

So, I guess all of this was somewhat regional, whereas Christmas, Easter, New Years were ministry principles.  Perhaps the reason for this is because George had seminars on two of these holidays?

Brent

[Uh Oh]

In SLO, several families, LB's all of them,  didn't participte in Valentine's,  St. Patrick's, or any other day.

They would take the kids out of class during these times.  One of the teachers, who knew we were,  "part of the group," asked us a few questions about our beliefs----we let our kids be in the class but downplayed everything---at which time she told us that one of the LB wives told her that,  "They used to kill Christians on St. Patrick's day, that's why we don't celebrate it."  

So, I guess all of this was somewhat regional, whereas Christmas, Easter, New Years were ministry principles.  Perhaps the reason for this is because George had seminars on two of these holidays?

Brent

I am firmly convinced that the hierarchy of the assembly wanted to make life as difficult as possible for AK's.  They wanted AK's to stick out like a sore thumb in all normal settings.  Between all the meetings that took away from a lot of AK's being able to participate on a sports team or other extra cirricular activities and the assemblies ridiculously stupid stance on all of the holidays, it was hard for a lot of AK's to fit in and carry on like normal youngsters or teenagers.  To 99% of people out there, the assembly policies on Holidays was just plain weird.

I don't believe for one second that God would look down and frown upon parents who allowed their child to participate in school christmas, halloween, or valentines activities.

I do belive that God does look down upon assembly leaders who commit adultery, swindle money or allow physical abuse to take place.  Perhaps thats where guys like George or Tim Geftakys  should have concentrated their efforts.

[Tony]

Brent wrote:
"beliefs----we let our kids be in the class but downplayed everything---at which time she told us that one of the LB wives told her that,  "They used to

Brent, don't you know that the above is true?  That is if you are a Christian who is run over by a green beer drinking Irishman named Kowalski. <g>

  We always thought that the views on Holidays were weird.   Even a "Happy Mother's Day" greeting seemed to be absent.   My wife thought that was odd.   Maybe if Hallmark had sent a few bucks towards the *ministry*?

Blessings, Tony Edwards
p.s.  hope this is readable as the reply form isn't working well with my speech system again! <sigh>
kill Christians on St. Patrick's day, that's why we don't celebrate it."

[Scott McCumber]

The bottom line is that the Assembly taught, whether blatantly or subtly, that anything not a part of the Assembly was a part of the Satanic world order.

Holidays could not be celebrated because they may have had some pagan adherents in centuries past.

Comic books could not be read because the heroes' powers were derived from demonic influences.

Secular music was denied because the beat led to demonic possession.

Sports were denied because they glorified man and either set man up as an idol or as an institution became an idol.

Extra-curricular activities were denied because they took time away from proper Assembly functions and allowed too much fellowship with unsaved people.

Friendships were denied because other children might contaminate an AK with worldy views or tempt them to carnal activities.

Fellowship with other Christians was denied because other Christians were (take your pick) playing games/apostate/without the true vision/worldly/carnal.

Relationships with family members not in the Assembly were denied because they were either not saved and a bad influence and saved but not "walking with the Lord".

Dancing was denied because it led to temptation and an overpowering lust.

Basically, an AK with fully involved parents (especially LBs and worker families) could expect to wake up to a quiet time, morning stewardships, go to school, come home, do homework, prepare a chapter summary, perform stewardships, eat dinner properly and in relative silence, recite memory verse or share a thought from a devotion, attend pre-prayer, set up chairs, perform and behave properly during the meeting, take down chairs, go home, sleep, do it again (the only variation being the type of meeting to attend: prayer, stated, tape, witnessing, etc).

Bascially an AK was required to be an Assembly adult. Any attempt to enjoy childhood/be a child was forcefully quashed.

AKs were not taught to make choices (good or bad) on their own. They were not taught to relate to anyone not in the Assembly. They were taught that the Assembly was more important than their families. They were taught that they needed to be prepared to survive a horrible period of persecution before the return of Christ in the year ________ (depending on George's latest revelation). They were not in any way prepared to be autonomously functioning adults in the real world.

AKs were taught they will never do anything to God's standards. AKs were taught that God is harsh and demanding and there is no joy in a relationship with him until his return - and then only if you have lived a life of hardship and denial - and then only if you enjoy sitting in meetings because that is the same type of activity we will be performing in eternity.

These things AKs learned on our own: Our parents preached joy and were miserable. They preached freedom and were slaves. They preached Christ first and worshipped the Assembly. They preached love and looked down their noses at their fellow man. They preached humility, piety, sexual purity and truth and bound themselves to an arrogant, lying adulterer.

And then we bolted. Wonder why?

S

[jackhutchinson]

AKs were taught that God is harsh and demanding and there is no joy in a relationship with him until his return - and then only if you have lived a life of hardship and denial - and then only if you enjoy sitting in meetings because that is the same type of activity we will be performing in eternity.

While I'm not an AK, I can't help but chime in.  I remember GG saying many times that the extent to which we enjoy God today will be the extent to which we will enjoy eternity.  

Let's see, heaven or hell.........hmmmmmmmmmm.......

Jack

[Scott McCumber]

AKs were taught that God is harsh and demanding and there is no joy in a relationship with him until his return - and then only if you have lived a life of hardship and denial - and then only if you enjoy sitting in meetings because that is the same type of activity we will be performing in eternity.

While I'm not an AK, I can't help but chime in.  I remember GG saying many times that the extent to which we enjoy God today will be the extent to which we will enjoy eternity.  

Let's see, heaven or hell.........hmmmmmmmmmm.......

Jack

I remember GG exhorting us one afternoon. He said he had heard people complaining about the number of meetings and length of the meetings (I'm sure he did not hear this, he set it up himself).

He said if we don't enjoy it now what are we going to do in heaven?

"What do you think we're going to be doing in heaven, dear ones? This! This is what we'll be doing for all eternity!"

It was one of the most depressing moments of my life.

S

[M2]

The bottom line is that the Assembly taught, whether blatantly or subtly, that anything not a part of the Assembly was a part of the Satanic world order.

Holidays could not be celebrated because they may have had some pagan adherents in centuries past.

Comic books could not be read because the heroes' powers were derived from demonic influences.

Secular music was denied because the beat led to demonic possession.

Sports were denied because they glorified man and either set man up as an idol or as an institution became an idol.

Extra-curricular activities were denied because they took time away from proper Assembly functions and allowed too much fellowship with unsaved people.

Friendships were denied because other children might contaminate an AK with worldy views or tempt them to carnal activities.

Fellowship with other Christians was denied because other Christians were (take your pick) playing games/apostate/without the true vision/worldly/carnal.

Relationships with family members not in the Assembly were denied because they were either not saved and a bad influence and saved but not "walking with the Lord".

Dancing was denied because it led to temptation and an overpowering lust.

Basically, an AK with fully involved parents (especially LBs and worker families) could expect to wake up to a quiet time, morning stewardships, go to school, come home, do homework, prepare a chapter summary, perform stewardships, eat dinner properly and in relative silence, recite memory verse or share a thought from a devotion, attend pre-prayer, set up chairs, perform and behave properly during the meeting, take down chairs, go home, sleep, do it again (the only variation being the type of meeting to attend: prayer, stated, tape, witnessing, etc).

Bascially an AK was required to be an Assembly adult. Any attempt to enjoy childhood/be a child was forcefully quashed.

AKs were not taught to make choices (good or bad) on their own. They were not taught to relate to anyone not in the Assembly. They were taught that the Assembly was more important than their families. They were taught that they needed to be prepared to survive a horrible period of persecution before the return of Christ in the year ________ (depending on George's latest revelation). They were not in any way prepared to be autonomously functioning adults in the real world.

AKs were taught they will never do anything to God's standards. AKs were taught that God is harsh and demanding and there is no joy in a relationship with him until his return - and then only if you have lived a life of hardship and denial - and then only if you enjoy sitting in meetings because that is the same type of activity we will be performing in eternity.

These things AKs learned on our own: Our parents preached joy and were miserable. They preached freedom and were slaves. They preached Christ first and worshipped the Assembly. They preached love and looked down their noses at their fellow man. They preached humility, piety, sexual purity and truth and bound themselves to an arrogant, lying adulterer.

And then we bolted. Wonder why?

S

Wow Scott!  That is quite a summary.

Why all the 'guidelines'?  Why all the fear that one would 'fall away from the Lord'?  Why all the controls?  Did you ever get the feeling that when an assembly event was announced it was a 'sales pitch' for the event. I.e. better attend or else...   I resisted some of those and was 'frowned upon', and succumbed to others that I now wish I hadn't.

However the end result is that the assembly produced 'immature' Christians because assemblyites were so dependant on the LBs/workers rather than on the Lord.  Those who remain assembly sympathetic have a difficult time adjusting to life without the bounds of the assembly.

BUT I am glad to be free.
Lord bless,
Marcia

[Oscar]

Hi folks,

Having read the last several posts, especially Scott's, I see that when I was the Great Potato out in the Valley we must have had "Assembly Lite".

When we all get together we sometimes laugh and re-tell the funny times we had when we had brothers and sisters living with us.  My daughters are, (I think), 35, 33, and 30 now.  Our son is a toddler of 24.  We left the One True Church when he was 10, so he doesn't have the bitter memories many do.

We remember fun times of fellowship around the dining room table, telling joke after joke.  Some of them weren't all that good, but when you are already laughing...

Nights when several couples and some of the brothers played board games in the dining room...

The night the brothers carried Chris Small's bed out in the back yard while he was asleep...

The time we bought jalapeno black eyed peas by mistake, and then fed them to Dan Ryan...

The night the brothers were lying on the floor on their backs, and the kids would sit on their feet to be launched the length of the living room.  They quit when one brother got too enthusiastic and Grace ricocheted off the ceiling...

The time a brother who was reparing something in the attic fell through the ceiling...

The time Tom Ludwig was riding his bicycle in the rain with an umbrella held out in front of him...and ran into the back of a car.
We laughed whenever it was mentioned for days afterward...

Our all house trips to Knott's Berry Farm and Universal Studios...

All the brothers beating it up to the video parlor after the Bible Study to play the new Atari space game...


Oh yeah...there was the eternal round of meetings too, but a lot of fun was had in between.  

Why not?

Then I moved to Fullerton.  Yuk! (actually, I was being quarantined)

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[Scott McCumber]

That makes the best thing about being an Assembly Kid other Assembly Kids! Our "lodge" was loaded with families. I grew up with dozens of brothers and sisters.

We saw each other half a dozen times a week. We stayed at each other's homes. We sat next to each other in meetings - if we were behaving. We went to Youth Fellowship. We camped. We had crushes on each other. We got into A LOT of trouble.

We had lunch together every Sunday. We passed notes. We made faces across the room during prayer meetings. We guarded tents together. We went to Six Flags. Hay rides. Rented a local gym to run around in.

Through it all we stuck together. Had to. No other kids knew what we were talking about half the time!

Now 15 years later, I'm talking and reconnecting with these same people and we're picking up right where we left off. And I'm meeting people from all over the country that I never knew before but know exactly what I'm talking about.

That's the best thing about being an Assembly Kid.

Lots of good times, also. The bigger problem was the warped relationship with God that was part of the package.

S

[Kimberley Tobin]

The bottom line is that the Assembly taught, whether blatantly or subtly, that anything not a part of the Assembly was a part of the Satanic world order.

Holidays could not be celebrated because they may have had some pagan adherents in centuries past.

Comic books could not be read because the heroes' powers were derived from demonic influences.

Secular music was denied because the beat led to demonic possession.

Sports were denied because they glorified man and either set man up as an idol or as an institution became an idol.

Extra-curricular activities were denied because they took time away from proper Assembly functions and allowed too much fellowship with unsaved people.

Friendships were denied because other children might contaminate an AK with worldy views or tempt them to carnal activities.

Fellowship with other Christians was denied because other Christians were (take your pick) playing games/apostate/without the true vision/worldly/carnal.

Relationships with family members not in the Assembly were denied because they were either not saved and a bad influence and saved but not "walking with the Lord".

Dancing was denied because it led to temptation and an overpowering lust.

Basically, an AK with fully involved parents (especially LBs and worker families) could expect to wake up to a quiet time, morning stewardships, go to school, come home, do homework, prepare a chapter summary, perform stewardships, eat dinner properly and in relative silence, recite memory verse or share a thought from a devotion, attend pre-prayer, set up chairs, perform and behave properly during the meeting, take down chairs, go home, sleep, do it again (the only variation being the type of meeting to attend: prayer, stated, tape, witnessing, etc).

Bascially an AK was required to be an Assembly adult. Any attempt to enjoy childhood/be a child was forcefully quashed.

AKs were not taught to make choices (good or bad) on their own. They were not taught to relate to anyone not in the Assembly. They were taught that the Assembly was more important than their families. They were taught that they needed to be prepared to survive a horrible period of persecution before the return of Christ in the year ________ (depending on George's latest revelation). They were not in any way prepared to be autonomously functioning adults in the real world.

AKs were taught they will never do anything to God's standards. AKs were taught that God is harsh and demanding and there is no joy in a relationship with him until his return - and then only if you have lived a life of hardship and denial - and then only if you enjoy sitting in meetings because that is the same type of activity we will be performing in eternity.

These things AKs learned on our own: Our parents preached joy and were miserable. They preached freedom and were slaves. They preached Christ first and worshipped the Assembly. They preached love and looked down their noses at their fellow man. They preached humility, piety, sexual purity and truth and bound themselves to an arrogant, lying adulterer.

And then we bolted. Wonder why?

S

Scott -

I think you paint a very realistic picture of what it was like for an AK.  I love the last part where you list what AKs were taught and what they learned on their own, very insightful.  The problem with having taught these AK's these things, they now have to "unlearn" them.  Thank God I believe there IS a God in heaven who is in control of all things.  The guilt I would continue to beat myself up with would be too enormous to bear if I didn't believe he could undertake for my children and re-teach them what the truth is (as it is found in Jesus and not the assembly)