Weird Teachings

[summer007]

Sounds like "Beetle-Juice" the Movie. (a long way off from the throne-room.)

[editor]

Here's another one I was thinking about, since we're on the topic.

There much quite a bit made about how we responded to the leadership, honored and obeyed them.  They were, after all, God's goverment and as such we were to submit to them.

Without going into the way we misinterpreted that passage, I'd like to just stick to the original teaching and assume that the current members still abide in it.

Lying to a leading brother was the same as lying to God.  A person couldn't get right with God until he "got right" with his brethren, according to what we learned.  OK, I'll buy it.

George has lied to the brethren big-time.  They all know it.  How can it be that George doesn't need to get right with his brethren?  Everyone else had to in the past?

The fact is that Assembly teachings were not biblical principles, but were merely biblical views to be adopted or discarded as needed at any given time.

Meeting all day Sunday....meeting Saturday.
Make things right with the brethren....ignore the brethren and call them usurpers.
Sexually immoral don't inherit the kingdom....sexually immoral are the Lord's Servants...and EVERY CHURCH IS LIKE THIS.

Denominationalism is sin (from Sufficiency of the Scriptures), the world church is apostate....All churches have problems, ours is no different.

None of these bold, schismatic stands amounts to a hill of beans... the only thing that mattered is what suited George's immediate needs.

Brent

[summer007]

What matter's to GG is the Treasury Boxes. I firmly believe their was no "Lords Treasury" there, it was " Georges Treeasury" as long as he could keep everyone bamboozeled and busy with meetings and stewardships, they'd never think anything through, and figure him out. John 10 A thief and a liar, climbing in another way. Summer.

[summer007]

p.s. Wolves don't get right with sheep, they devour them.

[moonflower2]

When I first heard about the "come into God's presence in the same state you die," teaching, I started daydreaming.  This was years ago, but I distinctly remember coming to the following conclusion:

The throne room,  (or wherever it is that we first meet God after death,) must be a cacaphonous, crazy place.  Every second a few dozen people pop in.
 
Some are sleeping, others are screaming in pain...once in a while there is one viewing pornography, another is yelling at his wife, until he realizes that it's God, not his wife....others are scared to death....and this goes on 24/7.

So, let's say I die reciting psalm 23, and at the same time another guy dies during electric shock torture...we both get into the Lord's prescence at the same time...the other guy is screaming at the top of his lungs....I'm barely able to whisper...seems kinda strange.

Maybe the hyper-charismatics do have it right, and there really is barking, laughing and crying in the spirit?

Brent

This is great.         

[night owl]

OK - the "7th day creation" subject - Outside of the fact that it doesn't match what Scripture says, what, if any, significance did GG attach to it? In other words, why was it important to change which day Adam was created? It feels like a silly question, but I still don't get it. 

[Jem]

Let me help you out here Nightowl. In your innoncence you asked what you felt was a silly question. Under George's teaching you're not suppose to "get it." You are supposed to be awed that he saw something in scripture that no one in thousands of years has ever seen. In the assembly system you are suppose to feel like you are the only one who doesn't get it. If we were all still good assemblyites when you asked us the silly question we would all roll our eyes, look at each other and whisper, "Nightowl doesn't get it." Neither do we, but we just put you in your place so to speak.

The significance attached to it is mystical. You hear the new teaching and because you've been taught that all good Bible teaching should be applied in someway you ponder the new revelation which you are not suppose to understand. Everyone around you is attaching this huge significance to the new thing in their tone of voice. If you are a good assemblyite you will then feel as if you are doing something wrong, not just because you still don't get it, but because you can't do anything with it.

But don't worry, George will explain it to you. Forget all the lengths you went to as a college student to not work on Sunday and give all day to the Lord, now it is a sin to work all day on Saturday and you have to rearrage your whole life to accomodate this new thing. Which you do wondering for all the world why.

Nightowl, I'm not sure you want to understand this whole thing. There are many of us desperately trying to unthink, undo, unbe what we were in assembly. Those who are still in need prayer. And I think "this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." Your brother will not listen to reason because that has been put away. He will not listen to scripture because they walk in a greater "light" than you. You know what really tweaked me most when I was in the assembly? People who loved the Lord and lived it. There were many around me and the undeniable true light in their lives was a constant annoyance. It was a good annoyance. When God finally hit me in the side of the head with a brick (He had to use more than one) these were the people I went to for repentance and understanding.

[vernecarty]

OK - the "7th day creation" subject - Outside of the fact that it doesn't match what Scripture says, what, if any, significance did GG attach to it? In other words, why was it important to change which day Adam was created? It feels like a silly question, but I still don't get it. 

George based much of his claim to fame on having esoteric knowledge. This has been a hallmark of false teachers, apostates, and cultists for centuries. Jem is right on the money.
If the knowlede is esoteric, then you don't have it, and worse, you don't even know that you don't have it, until it is graciously pointed out to you by someone like Geftakys, or some of his corrupt disciples.
The question Nightowl raises in most interesting.
There is no remote uncertainlty about what the Scripture clearly teaches as regards the creation record.
Nonetheless, so powerful was the impact of this man on the minds of many, the question is raised as to whether or not we might be missing something.
I try not to, but I still feel great passion as I think about so-called responsible men sitting and listening to this drivel with nary a word of correction or rebuke. I can only conclude that this man had more than persuasive power.
It may be entirely possible, that the man is now so corrupt, that he is beyond feeling.
There is every scriptural warrant to support this.
When a person over a long period time lives a life of wilful defiance and defilement I think something happens to the consience - it becomes totally seared. It is the ultimate of divine sanctions - self deception.
Who can deliiver the self-deceived? The answer is no one. Apprently even God gives them up.
Verne

[editor]

OK - the "7th day creation" subject - Outside of the fact that it doesn't match what Scripture says, what, if any, significance did GG attach to it? In other words, why was it important to change which day Adam was created? It feels like a silly question, but I still don't get it. 

I'll take a stab at it as well.

First of all, I have not personally been to the Pasadena assembly, so I dont know for sure that they meet on Saturday now.  I was pretty careful to mention this in my initial posts on the subject.   However, I do have what I would consider reliable information that says it is a fact.  Please keep that in mind throughout this whole thing.

Also, I had already left the group when the "man created on the 7th day teaching began."  Yes, this really did occur, many people were there to recount it, and yes, people did sit there on several occasions and bob their heads up and down and say, "Amen, praise the Lord," when George said this stuff.

So,  here's why he did/does this sort of thing.

He needs attention, he needs to feel important, he needs to prove that he has greater insight than everyone else, and most importantly

he needs to continually comfort himself that he still has power over others  There is nothing so potent to stoke this sort of ego as making up a silly doctrine, and then watching the lemmings lap it up, change course and implement the silliness, all at one's suggestion!  When this happens, he can convince himself that he is smarter than his followers (not that hard to do really, but he still needs this) and that he is worshipped by them.  George is the central figure in their lives, their guiding force.

Another aspect of these types of teachings is that is gives members of cults something they crave in order to escape their miserable, substandard lives.  They need a grand, mystical quest.  They need something of huge importance, that is unique to them, and that transcends their below average lives...in order to feel important and secure.  It is this sort of thing that attracts people to the occult.

Ever learning, never able to come to the knowledge of the Truth. 

To me, that verse implies constant diligence in study and application, as well as an elusive goal that can never be reached.  That's the main key here, the goal can never be reached, because if it could, people could get off the treadmill at some point and.....horror, actually know as much as the guru!  That simply cannot be.  George can have no equal.  Neither could any cult leader, at any time in history.

So, it really doesn't matter what the doctrine is as long as it serves to satisfy George's needs.

Brent

[vernecarty]

So,  here's why he did/does this sort of thing.

He needs attention, he needs to feel important, he needs to prove that he has greater insight than everyone else, and most importantly


Brent

Brent I am curious as to what you think George's current state of mind is. Someone suggested that he may actually believe his own hogwash. That may certainly be the case for someone who is deceived.
I am wondering if the man's heart is now so hard, that what he does he does knowinlgy, and has simply lost all fear of God and the consequences of his actions.
The man is either a complete cynic, who never for a moment believed any of the dire warnings he issued to so many over the decades, or he has lost any semblance of rationality.
Verne

p.s The last time I heard George speak was at a Midwest Seminar that Wayne invited me to several years after I had already left. I went to the meeing place at Lincoln Hall at U of I and the message was from the book of Isaiah and entitled "The Flame of the Lilly"
The experience was truly stunning. I remember literally looking around the room at the many faces to see how others were responding to what I was hearing. After about fifteen minutes, I literally was so grieved in my spirit that I could not stay and got up and left. It was sad beyond description.

[Oscar]

Howdy,

A few thoughts.

1. It is the "deeper life" attitude that makes it possible for GG, and others, to get by with teaching this nonesense.  The scriptures, you see, are a mystical book with many layers of meaning.  Hidden numerological treasures, (straight out of Cabbalistic occultism), spiritual analogies that relate the details of the tabernacle, temple and so on to chair arrangements in the New Testament church, the foundational idea that there are advanced, super-spiritual people, (occultists call them "adepts"), who are the ones who really understand.

The key is to keep folks hoping that one day, if they continue faithfully to learn, to be adepts themselves and become a "friend of God", ie, one who has a special relationship with God which makes him/her special.

American evangelicalism buys into these ideas in different degrees, but it is widespread.

btw....I "felt led" to type that.  

2. I think Brent has nailed it.  GG is really into his personal delusions.  He is probably, in his own mind, the persecuted Elijah figure, seeking the last remnant of those who have not bowed the knee to Baal.
(Read the above while humming the "Outer Limits" theme.)

3. I have some answers for you Brent, Mark C also, but paper and test time is upon me so I will only be looking in when I can catch a few minutes for the next couple of weeks.

4. But the end is in sight!!!   May 27 is graduation day.    

God willing.

Thomas Maddux

[vernecarty]

But the end is in sight!!!   May 27 is graduation day.    

God willing.

Thomas Maddux

Don't it feel great?
 I used to thinik that after a thesis defense I would never have to take another course in my life!
I am actually thinking about getting a degree in Psychology.
I have come to the conclusion that for those of us who are disillusioned with the traditional "ministry" pathways, we are going to have to find other creative ways in which to serve our generation by the will of God.
Are you planning to teach when you get done?
Verne

[editor]

Brent I am curious as to what you think George's current state of mind is. Someone suggested that he may actually believe his own hogwash. That may certainly be the case for someone who is deceived.
I am wondering if the man's heart is now so hard, that what he does he does knowinlgy, and has simply lost all fear of God and the consequences of his actions.
The man is either a complete cynic, who never for a moment believed any of the dire warnings he issued to so many over the decades, or he has lost any semblnace of rationality.
Verne

I can only assume and speculate on what his current state of mind is, as I haven't spoken with him in years.

However, besides George, I have met a few other true sociopaths in my  lifetime.  One of them was a local PI attorney.  He had a big full page ad on the cover of the phone book, and advertised extensively on Christian radio.  He was tall and rather good looking, with a winning smile and a warm, energetic manner about him.  He married, and his children attended private school...seemed like decent guy.

I began hearing some things about him about 2 years ago, and soon after had 2 cases with him.  Thanks God it was only two!

On the first one, he wrote me a bad check for my expert testimony.
On the second one, he also tried to bounce a check, but I cashed it at his bank and had the manager call him while I was standing in line...he made the check good then.

He is now in jail for a massive amount of imbezzling, insurance fraud and legal malpractice.  About a week before his arrest I asked him point blank,  "Brett, is everything OK?"  He answered,  "absolutely!  things are going great!"  He was so convincing.

There are like 280 counts of individual fraud against him, and he has the gall to deny each and everyone of them, without regard for the extensive paper trail, recorded phone calls, wire transfers and the like that PROVE he is guilty.  He stands up tall in court and denys them all.

I think George is like this.  For some reason, he doesn't have any guilt or conviction about what he has done.  I'm not talking simply that he doesn't have the conviction of the Holy Spirit, but that on top of that, he doesn't have the normal sort of remorse shared by normal folk.  

He may know he has done bad, but it has no effect on him whatsoever.  Scott Peterson is the same way, by all accounts.

Sociopaths are scary people, because they can do anything, and often times do.  Thankfully, George is a cowardly, elderly sociopath, who doesn't need the money.  He has a few dozen lives to control, which should keep him happy for his remaining years,,,,unless the IRS gets the manpower to follow up on him.

One of the things George always said that was true is,  "There's no fool like an old fool."  I think that sums it up nicely.

His conscience is totally, completely destroyed.  It doesn't work, and hasn't worked for many years.

Can someone explain to me how a person can commit adultery with a "dear sister in the Lord," on Saturday, and then preach a glorious message on Sunday?  Not once, but time and time again?

Imagine if Kristin's relationship with George progressed to the next level, as it did with others.  Kristin could have had some very interesting days at work.

Dictating letters full of sickening God Talk, peppered with verses
Arranging seminar notes
booking travel plans for grand missionary trips
hearing dirt and strategizing against other members
gratifying George with sexual acts
cleaning up after the above, and getting a chapter summary in order to go to the bible study.

That's how God's Sevant lived....and we were his followers.

No more, never again.

Brent

[vernecarty]

I can only assume and speculate on what his current state of mind is, as I haven't spoken with him in years.

However, besides George, I have met a few other true sociopaths in my  lifetime.  One of them was a local PI attorney.  He had a big full page ad on the cover of the phone book, and advertised extensively on Christian radio.  He was tall and rather good looking, with a winning smile and a warm, energetic manner about him.  He married, and his children attended private school...seemed like decent guy.

I began hearing some things about him about 2 years ago, and soon after had 2 cases with him.  Thanks God it was only two!

On the first one, he wrote me a bad check for my expert testimony.
On the second one, he also tried to bounce a check, but I cashed it at his bank and had the manager call him while I was standing in line...he made the check good then.

He is now in jail for a massive amount of imbezzling, insurance fraud and legal malpractice.  About a week before his arrest I asked him point blank,  "Brett, is everything OK?"  He answered,  "absolutely!  things are going great!"  He was so convincing.

There are like 280 counts of individual fraud against him, and he has the gall to deny each and everyone of them, without regard for the extensive paper trail, recorded phone calls, wire transfers and the like that PROVE he is guilty.  He stands up tall in court and denys them all.

I think George is like this.  For some reason, he doesn't have any guilt or conviction about what he has done.  I'm not talking simply that he doesn't have the conviction of the Holy Spirit, but that on top of that, he doesn't have the normal sort of remorse shared by normal folk.  

He may know he has done bad, but it has no effect on him whatsoever.  Scott Peterson is the same way, by all accounts.

Sociopaths are scary people, because they can do anything, and often times do.  Thankfully, George is a cowardly, elderly sociopath, who doesn't need the money.  He has a few dozen lives to control, which should keep him happy for his remaining years,,,,unless the IRS gets the manpower to follow up on him.

One of the things George always said that was true is,  "There's no fool like an old fool."  I think that sums it up nicely.

His conscience is totally, completely destroyed.  It doesn't work, and hasn't worked for many years.

Can someone explain to me how a person can commit adultery with a "dear sister in the Lord," on Saturday, and then preach a glorious message on Sunday?  Not once, but time and time again?

Imagine if Kristin's relationship with George progressed to the next level, as it did with others.  Kristin could have had some very interesting days at work.

Dictating letters full of sickening God Talk, peppered with verses
Arranging seminar notes
booking travel plans for grand missionary trips
hearing dirt and strategizing against other members
gratifying George with sexual acts
cleaning up after the above, and getting a chapter summary in order to go to the bible study.

That's how God's Sevant lived....and we were his followers.

No more, never again.

Brent

Thanks Brent. Vivid commentary.
My rage at the man has given way to a profound sadness...
Verne

[summer007]

Verne, Your description of visiting a seminar sounds like mine. A friend from Fullerton invited me I had left a few years before I thought ok I'll visit. It was very weird to me and I left at lunch time just had to go, had to get out of there, just left said I could'nt stay. Boy do I remember driving onto the freeway and feeling such a sence of freedom and release. This was late 80's, never have been back. Also I remember when I first left an elder from F called to see how I was doing, when I told him fine, great, he said,"Oh yeah, alot of people have a psychic release when they leave, and feel good for awhile." It sounded like a ploy to me, but yeah it did feel great to go.  Summer