al Hartman
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2003, 04:35:04 am » |
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In response to Dave Sable's most recent post here:
i was one of the last people to see Tom Vessy alive. After the last seminar meeting, i stopped in a Fullerton restaurant frequented by assembly saints, before driving back to the SFValley. Tom was there. i recognized that he was extremely depressed, and i sat with him and tried to get him to discuss what was troubling him. He would not.
i felt his pain, having myself been plagued most of my life with depression, and i felt that if i shared with him about my own shortcomings and failures, he would relate and perhaps be encouraged. But, being a LB & a Worker, i was compelled to preach the "party line" of living as an overcomer (denying anything in my personal life that might negate that image, lest i be exposed and lose my "position"). Tom was completely unresponsive to anything i said.
Between the time Tom and i parted in that restaurant and the following dawn, he hanged himself.
Tom Vessy had some deep-seeded issues that he had brought before some of the leadership (i don't know who). The "couselling" he received amounted to an ultimatum: shape up or ship out. He believed in the assembly, wanted to be whole and a part of the Lord's work, but didn't know how. He gave up. i think GG may have conducted his funeral. The whole matter was glossed-over and filed under "denial." i don't see how Tim G could have possibly been unaware of all this.
al Hartman
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2003, 04:39:37 am » |
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Dave Sable,
The reason for the suicide responses is due to the statement made to
Dave Mauldin by Timothy Geftakys - he knew of no suicides.
If this 'man' is to be elected to the presidency of the geftakys system,
it is without a doubt that he knew these things - he has never been
'out of the loop'.
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Oscar
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2003, 11:34:08 am » |
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The first time I heard about Tom Vessey's suicide was at the next Worker's Meeting. It was held at a house in central Fullerton that belonged to Kevin Healy at first. If I remember correctly, Tim and Ginger were the couple in charge of the house. It was before Jack Hansen lived there.
George told us about Tom's suicide. I remember listening, shocked and horrified, as I realized that GG was doing DAMAGE CONTROL. He was blaming everything on Tom V.
Not a word about how a constant sense of being a failure could drag a person's spirits down to the bottom.
It was all Tom 's fault for not rejoicing in the Lord, according to the Great Man.
Tom Maddux
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TGarisek
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2003, 12:26:18 pm » |
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Tom Vessey lived in my home (the beach house) and we worked together in my business. Tom was a very troubled man (no need to share why) but I loved him like a brother and was very deeply affected when Tim was designated to tell me what happened.
Tim wanted to make sure I understood his real problem but I knew Tom better than Tim thought. They have a tough time believing that people can actually use their brains and totally minimize individuals and compartmentalize them. George's way of stereotyping I guess.
Tom Vessey could have been helped. I'm sure there were others and I hope their blood is not on the hands of leadership who dealt with these people in ignorance. One of my major gripes is the fact that peers, men in their 20's were given such authority to direct people's lives. How could they give guidance when they were barely out of diapers themselves? I sometimes admit that I was in the same category but then it was different with me because my wife and I tag-teamed fairly well and I believe we said what we knew and didn't stray into uncharted waters with the men that lived with us. Tom had moved to Fullerton before he took his life.
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Bluejay
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2003, 06:54:00 pm » |
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Tim G is the most self serving and arrogant human being ever to walk the face of this earth. None of this about him suprises me. He is a total liar if he claims he knew none of this was going on. People need to wake up and smell the coffee and realize what a horrible individual this man is.
Is he aware that it is truly o.k. to go get a real job. I am sure he is qualified to flip hamburgers or pump gas somewhere.
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Arthur
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2003, 09:26:49 pm » |
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Or break rocks and make license plates.
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David Mauldin
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2003, 10:05:15 pm » |
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Arthur
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2003, 10:22:20 pm » |
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Man, that's rough.  |
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al Hartman
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2003, 10:27:21 am » |
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Arthur,
It was just another day in the assembly...
Bluejay,
You must have never met his father...
...............................................................................................
The above remarks may be the most negative i have yet posted on this BB. Just goes to show me what i'm capable of when i let my cynical nature kick in...
Is it a bad thing to vent in such a way? Don't i NEED to let the steam out-- alleviate the pressure of holding it all inside? Yeah, i really think i do!
But then i ask myself, How is Christ served by this exercise?-- How is God glorified? And is he pleased by my doing so?
When i answer these questions, i am mumbling... Perhaps i do not really want to hear what i think i'm trying to convince myself of...
So i ask God the same questions (because i'm starting to think maybe i really need to know the answers)...
...and i begin to comprehend that, Yes!, i really DO need to vent... but to vent in the right direction: casting all my cares upon him, because he cares for me. He IS glorified and pleased when i release my stress in a stream of prayer and praise, because that is what he told us to do.
...and my expressions toward my brethren? Well, they should first and foremost lift up Christ, because without his centrality, everything is off-center. As for exposing the pitfalls (and pratfalls) of life to others-- it may be necessary and expedient to do so, but always in the context of building up, encouraging the expression of all that is Jesus Christ.
Expressing negativity in order to flatter my ego by garnering cheap laughs at the expense of others is unworthy of the calling by which i am called.
Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift,
brother al
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Arthur
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2003, 09:21:18 pm » |
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Arthur,
It was just another day in the assembly...
Yeah, don't I know it The above remarks may be the most negative i have yet posted on this BB. Just goes to show me what i'm capable of when i let my cynical nature kick in...
Is it a bad thing to vent in such a way? Don't i NEED to let the steam out-- alleviate the pressure of holding it all inside? Yeah, i really think i do!
But then i ask myself, How is Christ served by this exercise?-- How is God glorified? And is he pleased by my doing so?
Hey Al, don't sweat it. It feels good, doesn't it, to get it out? These things should never have been kept under the covers in the first place. In the assembly you are supposed to be always rejoicing and thinking only good thoughts -- never be depressed, never be critical, etc. But that's not reality. I have no problem with us telling it like it is and calling a spade a spade. In fact I think for the sins of the assembly it has been long overdue. So let's shout it from the rooftop (if it isn't now, it will be then anyways), hang out the dirty linen for all to see, deal with the problem and then move on with life. |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2003, 09:23:35 pm by Arthur »
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Bluejay
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2003, 04:31:20 am » |
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Actually Al, I did meet his father many a times...I guess your probably right, but then give me this...George G. and Tim G. the most arrogant father - son combo ever in the history of this world???
Looking back on things, its almost rather comical... Can you see either of these two hypocrites with their superiour, all - knowing attitudes trying to run a company or working in corporate America??? Their act wouldn't fly for 30 seconds.
I always knew there was a reason the assembly didn't have a human resources office!!! (sarcasm)
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al Hartman
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2003, 09:36:40 am » |
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Truth be told, Bluejay, i think that one of the biggest problems in corporate America today is that many of its leaders are self-serving egotistic executives who are very much like the G-men of our acquaintance. That is where the Enron and WorldCom debacles come from.
But, oh the shame that men and women should conduct themselves so in the administration of Christ's church!
al
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Rudy
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2003, 12:16:56 am » |
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Some clarification may be in order.
This is an e-mail that i sent 2/19/03, 1100am, EST
'Wayne',
I was trying to bring to light the culpability of Tim Geftakys regarding the knowledge of suicides in the assemblies. If I had knowledge or evidence regarding income tax evasion, I would most defintely speak out regarding that. Tom's suicide really hit me. I've spent time with him too. I sensed that he was dealing with allot of anger - I did what I could regarding what I sensed. The next thing I know - he committed suicide. That is one of the things that caused me to leave the assembly in Hastings. I had my own struggles, like I don't want to end up like Tom. I've confronted the leadership in Hastings regarding one of their wives. After that it got worse. Blatant advertising by two of the wives. I am withholding names since you have a problem with that.
As far as a public apology, 'Wayne' all I can say is that in my statement I made it very clear that I thought you were the leading brother that was on the phone with Tom. After allot of thought, I have to admit that I am 95%+ sure that it was 'Jeff Jackson' on the phone with him. The way I understand it, Tom waited till you went away and then did what he did. What transpired between Tom and you before you left town is your business. I only know the end result. And as 'Gary Schald' said - he was trying to make people feel guilty. "Jeff and Margaret' left shortly after that and moved to Eau Claire. (sarcasm on) I wonder why (sarcasm off).
You have direct knowledge of a suicide in Norfolk, NE. Yet you remain silent about that as Tim Geftakys claims not to have any knowledge of any suicides. Speak up regarding the suicide of Tom Greenlee. You called me a fool. I would rather be thought of as a fool than as a coward that hides evil. And this is what is happening, evil.
Rudy Kristavcnik
*** The respondant confirmed everything stated regarding the suicide ***
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2003, 09:27:11 pm by Rudy »
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psalm51
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« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2003, 04:02:59 am » |
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Rudy,
Some clarification may be in order: first of all, Tom Greenlee received psychiatric help. We personally took him to a facility and stuck by him and his family. Wayne has communicated all of this to you in an email so I'm not sure what your point is. It was a very tragic situation and Tom was not abused in any way by the brothers involved. I was there. You were not. We loved him very much. You may not know that there was a history of mental illness in his family as well. We are not hiding anything because there is nothing to hide. You are waaaay off base to make accusations against Wayne. He did everything he could do to help Tom. I suggest that you stick to things that you know about instead of throwing out accusations and innuendo. It doesn't help anyone on this board.
As far as wives in Hastings blatantly advertising (as you put it) - I think you are sadly mistaken. I know those women and it is inconceivable that they would behave this way. You may have legitimate gripes about the way you were treated, but that does not excuse your semi-slanderous accusations about others. Please, Rudy, what you are doing is not healthy. Be a help here and stick with the FACTS not what you imagined happened.
Thanks for listening.
Pat
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Rudy
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« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2003, 08:02:09 pm » |
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3 Things.
1. Tim Geftakys made a statement that he knew of no suicides in the assemblys.
3 have been brought up - A man that hanged himself, a woman that swallowed
a bottle of pills, and Tom w/ the firearm
2. I mentioned two wives, but there were actually three.
A. One wife was telling me that at one time she could get any man she
set her sights on. Shortly after that her husband was telling me directly
that if his wife were to have sex with someone he would be able to tell.
B. One wife said come by and see me some time in front of several people
at a quick stop gas station. All of the people were looking at me to see
how i would react. I did go to see her, but made sure her husband was
there at the time.
C. The third was, how can I put it - sorry, but i still 'blush' regarding what
she did.
3. Slander is something spoken. Libel is something written. What they have in common
is falsehood used to damage someone's reputation. None of this is my 'imagination',
but, cold and hard facts; none of it falsehood intended for malice.
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