My Meeting with Tim Geftakys

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  I imagine that most everyone who read my article on this site,"False Holiness", realized the Tom V. that I referred to was Tom Vessi.
   I remember him as a very sensitive and kindly bro.  He seemed to have a special delight with the kids.
   Al, I hope you don't blame yourself for what Tom V. did.  I recognize when I wrote the article, and included Tom as an example of what Assembly teaching can do to certain folks, that to make a case that his suicide was 100% the result of the Assembly would not be accurate.  The point of mentioning it was to show that GG teaching contributed to the problem, rather than solved the problem.
  Obviously, everyone who has been in the Assembly doesn't commit suicide, have mental breakdowns, need psychiatric help, etc.   There are those who point out that in the church at large there are similar problems, and that is true to some extent, but does the church foster teaching and practices that can push the sensitive seeker into the despair that Tom V. fell?
  It is not a question of "all churches have these problems," rather are we helping those who we meet to find help in their difficulty.  It may be that the first answer to the above problem is to admit we can't handle it and get the individual to a professional who can.
                         God Bless,  Mark  

[al Hartman]

     Mark, thanks for bringing up the question of whether i feel responsible for Tom Vessy's suicide.  The principle involved with my answer may be important to many.

     Whether i COULD have, in any circumstance, have made a difference in the outcome, i have no idea.  But the reason i DID NOT make a difference is that i was under the delusion that a bold APPEARANCE of spirituality was more important than the HUMBLE reality of being spiritual.
     i think i may have known in my heart what Tom intended to do, but because of pride, fear, and a mixed bag of emotional factors, i chose denial over humility.

     Tom's decision to end his life was his own, and he alone must answer for it before the Lord.  But the fact that, had i acted differently, he may have decided otherwise is my responsibility.  Such a realization can be crushing.  When i was able to admit my failure, i confessed it to the Lord as sin.  He forgave me and cleansed me-- that is what he died for.

     i am not burdened with guilt for what i have done, because Christ has borne the guilt.  But i am sobered by the reality of what could have been, were i more faithful, and by the immensity of his mercy and forgiveness toward each of us.  ...and that is making me a more faithful servant.

al

[retread]

This is pure politics. The system of electing a new 'club' president is in
full swing.

They are rolling over the issues of abuse and the geftakys system that
has espoused the abuse is still virile. They don't need any Viagra. They
are conducting business as usual and electing a new 'club president'.

Jeremiah 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

[Pierwalk]

Hi Al or Mark,

I say this respectfully but what do you really know about Tom Vessy and what happened? I remember you both as "Valley brothers"  but how well did you know Tom and the situation. I was there for the whole deal. Tom was my roommate at the time........ I don't remember speaking to either of you about what went down and what agony Tom went through.

It's really sad what happened to Tom. In retrospect, I put the guilt for what happened on all of those in leadership at the time who pushed Tom to minister at a local college against his will. This really was eating at him and set in motion the first events of this tragedy.

What was worse to me was that these same "leaders" then denied Tom an assembly funeral to hide or deny the whole situation after his years in "fellowship". It's funny that one week Tom was "called" to take on the burden of a campus ministry and then a few weeks later don't exist in the assemblies eyes.

Tom was a good friend and he deserved better.

[Mark C.]

Hi Pierwalk!
  Tom Vessy spent some time out in the Valley, as he was "assigned" to watch some of the Worker kids while the Workers attended one of their seminars.
  He was great with the kids and we got to know him at that time.  What little we knew about the particulars of his suicide was by means of rumor and our attempts to extract info. from the leaders.
  If our understanding of the situation is incorrect and you would like to clear things up please feel free to do so.   It was many years ago and possibly our recollection of the events could be off a bit.
  I brought up his situation to show the dangers of taking sensitive and sincere Christians and placing burdens of performance on them.  In the Assembly if we could not perform we were defective; defective in our very person, because we couldn't actualize our faith.  For those who could not "lay hold" and who "fell away" there was no compassion, as it was stated that they had some kind of "root sin" in their lives that they refused to "get the victory" in.
  We now understand that this view is destructive, but there are those who still cling to some of these toxic false holiness teachings, and are unable to understand a relationship with God based on grace.  I call those who survive the above scenario, "wounded pilgrims" and am dedicated to helping them.
                                                God Bless,  Mark

[Uh Oh]

Hi Al or Mark,

I say this respectfully but what do you really know about Tom Vessy and what happened? I remember you both as "Valley brothers"  but how well did you know Tom and the situation. I was there for the whole deal. Tom was my roommate at the time........ I don't remember speaking to either of you about what went down and what agony Tom went through.

It's really sad what happened to Tom. In retrospect, I put the guilt for what happened on all of those in leadership at the time who pushed Tom to minister at a local college against his will. This really was eating at him and set in motion the first events of this tragedy.

What was worse to me was that these same "leaders" then denied Tom an assembly funeral to hide or deny the whole situation after his years in "fellowship". It's funny that one week Tom was "called" to take on the burden of a campus ministry and then a few weeks later don't exist in the assemblies eyes.

Tom was a good friend and he deserved better.

This is just another example of how poor and narrow minded the assembly leadership was.  About 7 years ago, one of my basketball players committed suicide.  Going to the funeral at a Lutheran Church, I wasn't sure what to expect. The funeral was very sad.  On the flip side, it was interesting to hear a message that actually was well thought out and made sense for once. The pastor who gave the service said that although this was a terrible thing, there is no unforgivable sin.  He then shared from the bible to back up his point.  

Basically, the assembly workers were an elitist, short sighted,  narrow minded (I am talking about you Tim Geftakys!!!)  group that were legends ionly n their own minds.  Yes,  some of them  had some decent qualities, but how situations like these were handled more than offset any good that they did.

[brian]

It's really sad what happened to Tom.

that is terribly sad! i never heard a peep about this situation in the midwest. i did have a friend i grew up with who killed herself in her third year of university. she was very kind, attractive, on the dean's list - it was really tragic. i really don't understand how a person could get so far into the mindset of protecting the assembly as to be this coldhearted. that's awful. i'm sorry.

brian

[Oscar]

All I can remember about Tom's suicide is that I was told that he came from and alcoholic family and struggled with alcoholism himself.

I can imagine how GG's teaching on overcoming could have aroused feelings of despair. People with severe problems need far more help than an exhortation to repent.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[amycahill]

I disagree with you on the venting, Al.  Does anybody remember the Assembly term "airy fairy?"  Well, I think we can "spiritualize" our recovery and make it "airy fairy" and totally ineffective.

This is what I know about abuse in general, having worked through several trauma issues earlier this year.

The abuse is a poison.  You've got to get it out.  You've got to talk about it.  And talk about it.  And talk about it.  I agree that you don't have to beat people up or use foul language, but I think you have to be honest about how you feel about what happened to you.  You know what REALLY glorifies God, in my opinion?  Healing from what happened and going on in forgiveness.  My trauma issues don't bother me much anymore because I went the the very painful process of resolving them.  At the END of the process is true, authentic forgiveness.  Do you want to TRULY forgive your abusers?  Do the process.  You have to go through.  There's no other way.  That's what I've learned from experience.

May God bless all of you!
Amy