WOUNDED PILGRIMS

[Arthur]

Mark,

Some have said to me, "I never served George.  I was serving the Lord all along."  My response is as follows:

We all know now that George is a self-serving man.  Self-serving people don't waste their time with people who serve Christ (and remember, we can only serve one master).  Self-serving people always surround themselves with people who will serve THEM (intentionally or unintentionally).  So that begs the questions:

If nobody was serving George, then why didn't he go elsewhere to find people that would? - Answer: He didn't need to go elsewhere.  He was in his element.  He found plenty of people to serve him in the assemblies.

Also,  wouldn't those who truly served Christ have left such a place of idolatry? - Answer: They did.  And for that choice they were treated poorly.

Yes, that's right, Jack.  You hit the nail on the head.    
And Mark, what you were saying about depth with God also is so true.

George, as he boasted, "preached for 55 years from the Bible", and "I've preached from every verse of every chapter of the Bible, I don't know many other men who can say that." But he never knew the Jesus that was in the Bible that he studied.  
If George really was a servant of the Lord, he wouldn't have acted like he did. I can not say that I ever sensed any caring or compassion or selflessness from him personally.  The only selflessness we knew of George was what he boasted of about his "journeys".
I heard a missionary speak a few weeks ago.  She talked about a mission they had at an orphanage in the Ukraine.  As she was talking, I began thinking, "you know, George would never do what she and the other missionaries did. Why?  Because there was nothing in it for him.  What adoration could he aquire for himself in 'unfolding the mysteries of God' to a bunch of orphans?"  
Did George ever help the poor or even care one iota about them?
But at that orphanage, the children came to know God -- really know him--because of the love, patience and kindness that the missionaries showed, working in unison with the Word they were preaching.

So it seems to me that everyone in the assembly got a messed-up picture of God, if they listened to George at all.  I suppose if we were all coloring in our notebooks and then studying the Bible on our own, we'd get a different picture.  

[vernecarty]

Former and current assemblyites whose defense posture is:  "I was serving the Lord all along" are displaying classic symptoms of the "seared conscience". Is it not possible, (look at the many who choose to remain in that situation!), and I, for one, am convinced, that these individuals are simply fulfilling the biblical type of "vesssels of wrath"?  It is the only reasonable explanation for what we observe of their conduct in view of the facts that have come to light about George Geftaky and his "ministry"
Verne

[vernecarty]

Arthur:
George Geftakys' use of the Scripture to advance his perverse agenda is in my view the weightiest of his many offences. In keeping with the tactics of his master, and who can now doubt that he was indeed mightily used by the Prince of Darkness, he masqueraded as an "angel of light'. His prodigious use of the Scriptiures is in fact the weapon he most effectively employed to enslave and subjugate the many who unwittingly followed his siren call. The very Word he hypocritically proclaimed to the detriment of so many, will burn in perpetuity from his tortured soul in the day of judgment...
Verne

[editor]

So that begs the questions:

If nobody was serving George, then why didn't he go elsewhere to find people that would? - Answer: He didn't need to go elsewhere.  He was in his element.  He found plenty of people to serve him in the assemblies.

Also,  wouldn't those who truly served Christ have left such a place of idolatry? - Answer: They did.  And for that choice they were treated poorly.

Jack!  You've just hit a home run here.  You have it absolutley, perfectly clear, and your articulated it beautifully.  I am so glad for you, that you are getting these things sorted out.  

Sadly, quite a few people fear to examine these errors, and the reason behind their involvment in George's sins, and thus never grow past them.  They are doomed to repeat the same mistakes, or else remain paralyzed for the remainder of their Christian lives.  At some point, the ideas you expressed in you post MUST be addressed.

If I had known you were reading all these books, I would have loaned you mine!  But of course you would have wanted your own copies.

My favorite is Subtle Power, although the others are also good.

Brent

[Gretchen Honan]

Brent / Verne-

Brent -  : :)I think your earlier post is so right on.  The key to "undefiled and pure religion is to visit the widows and orphans in their distress and to keep oneself unspotted by the world."  More and more I see in the scriptures that the litmus test of true spirituality is genuine selfless service toward those who can not possibly do us any good.  Giving to those who can not give back to us.  I guess I am searching for a way to test myself and others after being so deceived.  

I think it was CS Lewis who said, "a gentleman is someone who treats with respect and dignity those who can not possibly do him any good."  Think about that when the spanish speaking gardener comes by, or the handyman is changing the light bulb in your office or the quiet older woman is emptying your trash can.  Who is our neighbor?  

In response to Verne Carty's strident statements that no one in the assembly could be serving Christ, but were only serving George, I beg to differ.  Look at the woman who cast in her two mites into the treasury of the temple.  Who knows, maybe those two mites were part of the 30 pieces of silver used to buy Christ's death.  She gave to a corrupt system run my corrupt, self-serving, self-righteous Pharassees and yet, Christ noticed her pure devotion and intent of heart and desire to give to God.  He is the judge of the thoughts and intents of the heart....not you or me.  We need to beware of treading harshly on those dear ones Christ loves and notices and values.  We may not see or esteem their service for Christ but He sees them at home, at work, in their private thoughts and knows who are His.

[Joe Sperling]

Gretchen---

Well said!!

--Joe

[retread]

...
In response to Verne Carty's strident statements that no one in the assembly could be serving Christ, but were only serving George, I beg to differ.  Look at the woman who cast in her two mites into the treasury of the temple.  Who knows, maybe those two mites were part of the 30 pieces of silver used to buy Christ's death.  She gave to a corrupt system run my corrupt, self-serving, self-righteous Pharassees and yet, Christ noticed her pure devotion and intent of heart and desire to give to God.  He is the judge of the thoughts and intents of the heart....not you or me.  We need to beware of treading harshly on those dear ones Christ loves and notices and values.  We may not see or esteem their service for Christ but He sees them at home, at work, in their private thoughts and knows who are His.

Gretchen,

Although I agree that many may have served out of pure devotion to the Lord, it is still difficult for me to fathom, how anyone "after" they have the knowledge of what George and his ministry have done, would still follow him and those of his ilk.  This makes me seriously consider who their "pure devotion" is directed to.  Verne's idea of a "defense posture" may help explain this.

[Mark C.]

Hi Gretchen,
  I just made the same comparison on another thread ("I am Deceived") re. "the Widow and the mite", and just now saw this discussion.  I think Retread gives Verne's remarks the correct context in his answer to you and he clarifies Verne's meaning.  Verne was not meaning that those sincere members, who in their hearts were serving God, are to be judged the same as insincere.
   Take a look at what I posted on the other thread and see if that makes sense to you, or if you would disagree with it.
  Verne is a very sincere and capable communicator and I'm sure he will get back to you on what he means.
   How do you see things now in the Assembly?  Are you still attending the meetings?  Do you think there are still some issues to be addressed?  Please feel free to state your opinions and I am open to discuss these things with you.
                            God Bless,  Mark

[vernecarty]

By way of clarification, none of my comments on this BB should ever be generally applied to the rank and file of those involved with the man George Geftakys - they are victims. My comments are directed primarily toward those who held responsibility in that ministry; those who saw his true nature in countless workers' and leading brothers' meetings; those who heard his wicked slander of just persons and knowing full well their conscience and the facts contradicted George, stood silent. The number and the caliber of men and women who left George Geftakys forever bears incontestable witness to what should have been evident to most, if not all serving with him- witness what God has done in the lives of so many of them! I am sorry to say that this fact alone is indeed quite an indictment of many. My strident language notwithstanding, I say these things with tears, great sorrow of heart, and a sense of my own complicity.
Dear friends, how are those of us charged as watchmen to explain ourselves to the Chief Shepherd? It is difficult to express the deep sense of shame I personally feel over what has happened...I do not intend merely to be strident.
 We yet do not fully comprehend the enormity of what ocurred. For those who have repented, forgiveness must be extended, but how can we ever forget...?
Verne

[jackhutchinson]

By far most people in the assembly were sincere: sincerely deceived.  The sickening thing is that GG exploited our sincere desire to serve Christ and used it to serve his selfish interests.  God saw that with our hearts we intended to serve Christ, but He also saw that our actions and words benefited George.  For example, the more people we brought into fellowship in our assemblies (out of our sincere desire to serve Christ) the more money ended up in GG’s pocket (which he used to serve his selfish interests).  Ours was a sin of ignorance.

As for the widow and her mite, I believe the comparison leaves out a very important factor: choice.  The widow had only one religious system  in which to express her faith.  She had no choice but to put her mite in that particular box because there was only one priesthood and temple that she could have supported with her money.  We, however, have always had the opportunity to leave and go to another church where our words, actions and money would have been used to bring glory to God instead of bringing adoration, power, money and sexual pleasure to George Geftakys.  The major reason we didn’t leave is that we were deceived.  Once we discovered the truth, we repented.

Was I being sincere, though, when I accepted the arrogant teaching that we had vision that nobody else had?  Was I sincere when I accepted the notion (though we never explicitly taught it) that we were the cutting edge of Christianity?  True, people took advantage of us, but we did make little compromises that had nothing to do with knowing about George’s corruption.  Each one of us was attracted to the assembly for specific and different reasons.  Something inside us drove us to make excuses to stay and/or remain silent even when the little red flags went up in our minds.  We would do well to discover what these motives were.  Doing so will bring healing and will keep us from making the same mistake again.

Jack

[Mark C.]

Jack!
  Very clear and excellent point!  That really helps to put the whole issue in the right perspective.
Verne
   You also have clearly put your previous comments into the proper context; love often expresses itself in an anger that appears too strident.  When your small child tries to race out into the traffic and narrowly misses getting hit a parent is excused for being angry at the child who disobeyed them.  Indifference to the abuses in the Assembly system would be the worse kind of attitude for us to have.
                     God Bless,  Mark
  PS---- Pray for our Pres., and troops!

[Joe Sperling]

Jack--

Your post hits the nail on the head. It's hard to own up to the fact that I willingly supported someone financially for several years who served himself, not the Lord. I always
had that chance to leave, there were no locks on the doors
holding me in. It was a two-edged sword so to speak---
I was deceived on one hand, yet willingly stayed on the other hand. Thanks for your insight.

--Joe

[vernecarty]

Jack's lucid and thoughtful reflection on the mentality of so many of us involved with that system is refreshing. No excuses, no alabis - just an acknowledgement of what was.
These are the kinds of posts that convince me that the impact of the BB has been profitable for at least some. The simplicity, clarity and truth of his comments really underscore the strangeness of some who are still protesting "yes but..." Why can't we simply agree that there is no excuse for what we allowed George and Betty and their minions  to do? Are we then immune from the deception Jack speaks of? I thought not then...I think not now...
Verne

[Mark C.]

Hi All!
  The excellent point that Jack brought up re. our deception that caused us to serve man over Christ fits this thread of Wounded Pilgrims well.  Verne and Joe have responded, with a bit of wonder, that they had previously been blind to their involvment, and the positive aspects of understanding the above distinction of whom we serve.
  I know that some don't like the idea of calling those who were involved in the Assembly, "Wounded Pilgrims."  It might suggest to them the idea of eternal victimhood, and a unhealthy preoccupation with how hurt we may be.  A kind of whinning that seeks to be noticed for all the wrongs that have been thrown at oneself.
   What has intrigued me re. this topic, since I first discovered the title from a BB 10 years ago for cult recovery, was understanding the dynamics that allowed me to fit into the Assembly system.  I consider the above things, not to continue my victimization, but to find God's message in the experience that will lead to a healthy pilgrimage with Christ.  What a waste it would be to spend 20 years in a group, like the Assembly, and to ignore the past and to, "just get on with my life."
   I would like to suggest that there is a wealth of value from looking at our past sojourn in the twisted paths of the Assembly, and as my story of the Good Sam. shows, to find that Jesus is the answer.
 Indeed, for the pilgrim who was so wounded, a special depth of comfort, solace, knowledge, and compassion toward others can be discovered, that will yield riches of blessing, not only for the pilgrim, but for others who never went through a similar experience, but who pause to hear our message.
                                   God Bless,  Mark

[Arthur]

Ah, Mark!  I get it.  Now I see where you are coming from.  That is a noble thought indeed!  I see it going hand-in-hand with the notions from the Bible -
"be not overcome by evil, rather overcome evil with good" and
"death is swallowed up in victory!" and
"what you intended for evil, God meant for good and for the saving of many people" and
"the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort comforts us in all our trials that we may be able to comfort others that are going through trials with the same comfort that we have received from God."
and many others...

Ah, excellent thought, and great hope there that there is nothing lost or meaningless in the life tended, cared-for, overseen, directed and shepherded by Jesus.  Thanks Mark!  
I think, though, it may take some time for me personally to come to terms with the experience to the point where it will be beneficial for others.  And I have a hunch it is the same for many others who have "navigated the twisted paths of the assembly".

Arthur