Your Stand on the Present Crisis

[David Mauldin]

I am very surprised that so little outcry against the invasion of Iraq has been made by the Christian Church. I would be interested to read the views of some of those who post on this B.B?

[Tanya]

I say YEA; but my husband says NAY..at least--show us some more reason why the USA should attack.

[David Mauldin]

do you realize innocent children/women will die?

[retread]

do you realize innocent children/women will die?

Hey, what about the innocent men.

Do you realize that innocent men/women/children will die due to automobile accidents if we let people drive cars.  Hey, this also includes men, maybe cars are more dangerous than war, or perhaps you are just pulling at people's hearts by using women and children in your post.  War is not intended to kill the innocent, just as driving an automobile is not intended to kill the innocent (there may be some exceptions in both cases).

That said, I agree that we should not take any action that will be guaranteed to kill the innocent.  However your use of "innocent women and children", appears to look like a way to pull at peoples hearts rather than address the issues.  Lets, address the issues.  Where do you stand, David?  I just may agree with you. When you use an example such as the one that you used, it sounds the same way that politicians sound when they say if there are budget cuts it will affect the children and the elderly, they never use examples for budget cuts such as their own personal government benefits (medical, dental, automobile, etc.), it just wouldn't draw the same reaction.  (so why do they think it is so import to make cuts to the children and the elderly first)

David, hopefully there are not many who would push a button that would cause death of the innocent. But this is more complicated than the push of a button.  We still need to ask ourselves, what would Jesus do?

Where do I stand?  For now, my decision on this matter is "Pray Fervently!"

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings David:

The Catholic Church made a statement that you probably read. Is that your position?

[David Mauldin]

My viewpoint:  Osomen Binladen and Saddam Hussien are mortal enemies.  One is a dictator who uses religion as a stepping stone the other is a fanatic who veiws our invasion as a feather in his cap. A smart polititian woul recognize (As reagan did) that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  If Saddam is taken out of power it will open up much more animosity towards the U.S. I forsee a Northern Ireland senerio. Apart from that if I am to take the teachings of Christ seriously there is no way I could condone killing innocents. Buhddism teaches to see no douplicity.  there is only one group of people here on earth. to kill them is to kill my own family.

[retread]

...
Buhddism teaches to see no douplicity.  there is only one group of people here on earth. to kill them is to kill my own family.

I have to admit that I don't know the first thing about Buddhism.  So here is a question for you.  My question doesn't involve the current crisis that you mention, it is only to help me understand Buddhists a little better.  If a Buddhist saw somebody shooting many of the innocent women and children from your earlier message, and the Buddhist had an opportunity to stop the killer, by shooting the killer would he/she become a killer and do this?  Or would they just sit back and watch the slaughter of the innocent with the result being that many more innocent were slaughtered, but the killer who was part of the one big family on earth would be allowed to live?

[editor]

On September 11th, 2001  I made the statement,

"It will be hard for these Moslem creeps to say, 'Allah Akbar!' when Allah's Holy land is glass and ash."

I advocate massive nuclear destruction in the Mid-East, beginning with Iran and Saudi Arabia.  I am not kidding, this is what I really believe.

Hitler told everyone what he was going to do, years before he did it.  He kept his word.

fundamentalist Muslims say, "Death to America!"  They call us the Great Satan.  They have been very up front and honest regarding their plans for us.  I have every reason to believe they will carry out their clear intentions, and attempt to kill my children at the soonest opportunity.

I believe them.

For that reason, I think they should all be BBQ'd immediately.  This would also sterilize the biological agents that they may have prepared for us.

This is the cleanest, safest and fastest solution for US.  I am on our side.

Brent

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings everyone:

www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6553

Above is a link to an article An Open Letter to President Bush. One of the writers is Yelena Bonner, widow of Nobel Peace Prize recipient Andrei Sakharov.

[John L.]

Hi David,

As one who witnessed the atrocities in the name of Allah, in which many innocent women and children perished, they will not stop until all the infidels (non-Muslim) are totally annihilated. Do not think they come carrying placards and chating peace, but with every stroke means death. This is not a cliche but a real life experienced. My own friend and classmate died in my arms, because they were Christians. I was spared because I was consider to be their own. Is there such things as innocent women and children with fanatic muslim? I do not consider all muslim are evil, for know quite of few of them. However to those who perpetrate and succor the destruction of America, there is no other way but attach pre-emptively.

Do you suppose the world war II will ever end as we know now if we were afraid to kill an innocent women and children? You may be speaking now in 'deutsch" or in "nippongo". No, evil must be dealt with or else evil prevails, and then no one can withstand it.

I am a chistian and loves the Lord Jesus. We are also given a stewardship to stand up against evils and not allow another holocaust or "imperialism". As for me and my family, we stand 100% with our president, troops and the safe of our innocent women, children and men(including you David).

[BenJapheth]

Islam Has Targeted Us...God Has Targeted us

[/b]

On September 11th, 2001  I made the statement,

"It will be hard for these Moslem creeps to say, 'Allah Akbar!' when Allah's Holy land is glass and ash."

I advocate massive nuclear destruction in the Mid-East, beginning with Iran and Saudi Arabia.  I am not kidding, this is what I really believe.

Hitler told everyone what he was going to do, years before he did it.  He kept his word.

fundamentalist Muslims say, "Death to America!"  They call us the Great Satan.  They have been very up front and honest regarding their plans for us.  I have every reason to believe they will carry out their clear intentions, and attempt to kill my children at the soonest opportunity.

I believe them.

For that reason, I think they should all be BBQ'd immediately.  This would also sterilize the biological agents that they may have prepared for us.

This is the cleanest, safest and fastest solution for US.  I am on our side.

Brent

They really are coming after us!

[/b]


Love you, Bro...Couldn't say it better myself.  By the time we figure out that Islam has targeted the West, Jews, and Christians it will be too late.  They really are coming after us.  And, in a world of violent asymetrical impacts from a few fanatics loaded with WMD - We're history - like the Incas, the Aztecs or the Mayans.  We're done, game over.

Democracy is an inferior system for our times since it is a system that can only work among a moral people. Freedom can only exist for an extended period of time among a moral people. Freedom can only function where there is restraint...We have lost our restraint and therefore we will lose our freedom.  We're done.

Islam is coming for our throats, folks...God has raised them up as our denouement. The book of Revelations says multitudes will lose their heads - that's Islam's specialty as the Wallstreet Journal reporter Daniel Pearl found out in Pakistan.

But, for a short season George Bush has been raised-up to restrain the madness of Ishmael - the wild donkey people, whose hands are against everyone, and everyone's hands are against them.

The world shall soon descend into madness and murder.

Dear Saints - We must repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand!  

We need to ready ourselves -  Our redemption draweth nigh!  This is the Kingdom message for the church....For the great and terrible Day of the Lord is rushing upon us.  It is time to put on our white garments!

Seek him while he may be found, dear ones.  Let us work the works of Him who called as long as it is day; for the time is coming when no man shall work. Be ready, get ready ... BE READY!

May God help us.  


Chuck Vanasse
chuck@vanant.com

[BenJapheth]

Are There Any Innocent?  Any?  Any REALLY innocent?

[/b]

do you realize innocent children/women will die?

Yep, the innocent will die...but think about it, are any of us innocent? ...Any of us?  Any at all?  I'm not.  If I die, I'm only getting what I deserved a long time ago.  Every day I've ever had has been a mercy day.  Innocence is WAY overrated.

May God help us...

Chuck Vanasse
chuck@vanant.com

[editor]

As I re- read my post, where I advocate pre-emptive nuclear destruction for Iran and Saudi Arabia, I realized that because I was typing in haste, I left out some very important points.  I have thought long and hard about this, perhaps as much as I have thought about anything.

"Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."  George Santayana.

A generation ago, there was a foreign country, who believed their "king" was divine.  They had a national religion, that was fanatical, and taught that the county's cause was a divine cause, and that because their people were so pure, they had a right to conquer others, especially their neighboring countries.  When they conquered their neighbors, they enslaved the young women as "comfort girls," and tortured the men to death.

So fanatical and militant were the religious beliefs, that people considered it an honor to go on suicide missions for their divine government.  They did this in a pre-meditated way, not in the heat of battle, jumping on a hand grenade.  They were suicide bombers, who went by the name, Kami-Kazi, which means Divine Wind.

Of course, the nation I am referring to  is Imperial Japan.  Even if you are a Buddhist, you might remember that they attacked us, unprovoked at Pearl Harbor.

The way we defeated them, which included getting them to stop Kami-Kazi missions, was by proving to them that their little emporer was NOT divine, but a defeated man.  How did we do this?

NUCLEAR BOMBS

It was an instant religious revelation for the Imperial Army, Navy and Airforce to see "god" signing surrender papers.

Fast forward to today, where there is a nation (Islam) who believes that their leaders speak for god, and who are eager to go on suicide bombing missions to kill the Jew and Infidel.  Ten years ago, these suicide bombers were smiling boys of 8 or nine years of age, like my kids.

Are these people really innocent?  Hell no!!

Are we going to get them to be less fanatical with a stupid UN resolution?  If we got them to allow a Buddhist Peace Awareness Training to take place in one of their elementary schools, do you think it would have an effect?

However, there is one quick, easy, in-expensive and sure-fire way to cure them, and protect ourselves.  Even if it didn't cure them, it still must be done, in order to protect ourselves and our families.

The weather report in Tehran, the fountainhead of Fundamentalist Islam, must read,  "Cloudy and 8000 degrees Farenheit."

When these people go to bed screaming, "Death to America!" and wake up realizing that they will never again make a pilgrimage to Mecca, and that their precious Imams have been converted from mass to energy, it will give them instant clarity as to how powerful Allah is, when compared to the Great Satan.

We can destroy them right now, but we restrain ourselves.  If they could destroy us, we all know they would NOT restrain themselves.  They are going to light off the first nuke they get their filthy hands on, guaranteed.

Our lack of moral courage is the only thing keeping us from doing the only right and sane thing.  Fewer of them, and far fewer of us, will die if we fix the problem now.

I know we won't, so it isn't hard to realize that nothing but war and bloodshed are in our future.  The kind thing to do, for the free world, is to exterminate these psychopathic people.  


Drop about 27 nukes, in groups of threes ( so if one fails to blow it doesn't fall into enemy hands):

Tehran, Rihad, Islamabad, Peshawar, Karachi, Bagdad, Libya, Mecca , Medina.  

Before dropping the nukes, ask the leaders of the above countries if they wouldn't mind handing over Bin Laden, and his Al Quaida network, in say, 48 hours.  Let them know clearly, if they don't do it, that we will be launching some rockets, and flying some planes over in their neighborhood right after the deadline.  

Blow the hell out of them, then give a two week break and ask Indonesia, and the Phillipines if they wouldn't mind handing over the fomentors of Islamic hatred in their countries.

I think they would be quite co-operative, as would many of the African dictators, etc.  

They will never love us, so they might as well respect us, and they should.

BTW, I used exactly the same logic and principles in dealing with Geftakys, only the weapons were not carnal.

How did it turn out, when compared to the "kinder, more compassionate," methods advocated by some in the past?

Brent

[editor]

A smart polititian woul recognize (As reagan did) that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  

No, a smart politician would not adopt a stupid Arab proverb.  What good has this kind of thinking done in the Arab world, where it was coined?  Answer, none at all.

A stupid politician, like the ones we have now, might adopt a stupid, morally relativistic principle like this, but a smart one would never act in such an idiotic immoral way.

My enemy's enemy isn't my friend, unless he is my friend.  Just because Russia opened up a second front against Germany doesn't mean they were our friends.  Roosevelt should never have adopted this moronic Arab line of thinking.  If he hadn't, there would not have been an iron curtain, and countries like Afghanistan would not have been so decimated that they allowed the Taliban to come to power.

By the way David, did you know that the Taliban blew up a statue of your Buddha?  Eat some red meat and clear your mind.  David, if you are going to continue on in the ways of Buddha and Unitarian stuff, at least read some Ayn Rand.  She's an atheist, but she would never espouse the anti-intellectual drivel that you seem to be foisting on us here.  Of course, you may only be doing this in order to stimulate discussion, in which case you are doing a good job.  But if you mean it, at least learn how totally fallacious and cruel your line of thinking is.

Brent Tr0ckman,  

a Christian who sees no problem with capital punishment, war, and righteous violence.  Break into my house at night with a ski mask on and I'll show you what kind of violence I mean.

[BenJapheth]

yep, yep, yep...Nice sanity pill here.

A smart polititian woul recognize (As reagan did) that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  

No, a smart politician would not adopt a stupid Arab proverb.  What good has this kind of thinking done in the Arab world, where it was coined?  Answer, none at all.

A stupid politician, like the ones we have now, might adopt a stupid, morally relativistic principle like this, but a smart one would never act in such an idiotic immoral way.

My enemy's enemy isn't my friend, unless he is my friend.  Just because Russia opened up a second front against Germany doesn't mean they were our friends.  Roosevelt should never have adopted this moronic Arab line of thinking.  If he hadn't, there would not have been an iron curtain, and countries like Afghanistan would not have been so decimated that they allowed the Taliban to come to power.

By the way David, did you know that the Taliban blew up a statue of your Buddha?  Eat some red meat and clear your mind.  David, if you are going to continue on in the ways of Buddha and Unitarian stuff, at least read some Ayn Rand.  She's an atheist, but she would never espouse the anti-intellectual drivel that you seem to be foisting on us here.  Of course, you may only be doing this in order to stimulate discussion, in which case you are doing a good job.  But if you mean it, at least learn how totally fallacious and cruel your line of thinking is.

Brent Tr0ckman,  

a Christian who sees no problem with capital punishment, war, and righteous violence.  Break into my house at night with a ski mask on and I'll show you what kind of violence I mean.