"The Holiest thread on the BB..."

[al Hartman]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

     What you are about to read is NOT the holiest thread on the BB.  In fact, i have no idea which thread that might be.
But the title of this thread was suggested, tongue-in-cheek, by Joe Sperling in a personal email criticizing my conduct on the BB.
     His criticisms of me were absolutely correct, with one small adjustment:  Joe said that my attitude is "holier than thou."  He may be right, but i don't think of myself that way.  What i believe i have been thinking is that i'm "wiser than thou."  Now that Joe has drawn my attention to my attitude, i confess to all that whatever wisdom or holiness i may display is a gift from God and, as such, is absolutely indefensible in an "attitude" of any kind.

     Specifically, i have been unreasonably and unfairly critical in some, if not all, of my posts.  i began posting with a general accusation that posters were being too negative.  
     i was wrong.  
     Over the weeks and months, i have refined my criticisms to singling out individual posters, privately and publicly, for not being spiritual enough.  
     In these, too, i was wrong.
     In fact, had someone else written the criticisms i wrote,
i probably would have criticized that person for doing so.

     It would be easy at this point to say that this critical, superiority-assuming attitude is a product of having been a worker and LB in the Geftakys regime.  i will not make that claim.  Although i surely honed  my skills and polished my techniques under that tutelage, the fundamental disorder is within me.
     My earliest childhood environment was one of elevating oneself by stepping on others.  The first 18 years of my life were lived learning to express my "superiority" at others' expense.  It was a defense tactic for overcoming intense feelings of inferiority and insecurity.  By not examining myself and my motives, i made it (seem to) work for me.
     Later, athough born again, i failed to recognize my new nature in Christ and continued to be a demanding and obnoxious person.  Naturally, assembly leadership appealed to me with its inherent opportunity to oppress.

     Having been gone from the assembly for over 20 years by the time i reached this BB, i thought i had worked out an understanding of the wrongness of my old nature's ways, and the rightness of availing myself of the new creation in Christ.
     But before i knew it, i had slipped back into old habits of finding fault with others and making demands of them.

     So here i am, without excuse, asking your forgiveness.  In particular, Brothers Tom, Mark, Arthur, Joe, Sisters Eulaha, Andrea, and any and all others whom i have offended, i am truly sorry.  If your name does not appear here and it should, the omission is by ignorance, not by intent.  Please tell me, and i will respond.

     i know that i have been neglecting those facets of my salvation that deliver me from such unseemly and irreverant behavior.  Thank God for his faithful servants such as Joe Sperling, Mark Campbell, Tom Maddux and others who have, in love and with kindness, called me to task.
     i will, as Joe suggested, "lighten up."  i will try to have fun on the BB, and remove the stick from my nether region.
i will exercise myself to remember that the BB is not a living entity, but an inanimate venue by which individuals may express themselves as they wish.  
     
     My request of you is that you keep me on a short leash.

In love and contrition,
brother al





     

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings Al:

You're my favorite seasoned citizen.

[Arthur]

    So here i am, without excuse, asking your forgiveness.  In particular, Brothers Tom, Mark, Arthur, Joe, Sisters Eulaha, Andrea, and any and all others whom i have offended, i am truly sorry.  

Oh, I didn't notice.  Did you write something?  lol    I'm sorry, there are so many posts I must have missed that  

[Joe Sperling]

Brother Al,

As I wrote in my E-mail to you I was out of line
yesterday. Anyone on this BB has the right to say
anything they wish to. And if that is to criticize a
thread on the BB, you have every right to. There are
some very enlightening things to read on the BB and
there are some things that are downright stupid too(I've
been the author of a few of these stupid ones). Criticism
can be very healthy when used the right way. Some of us are just a bit "touchy" sometimes. I'm one of those unfortunates. In my E-mail to you I did put what I felt to be true--but I feel I said it in the wrong way. I turned out to be the one with the  "holier than thou" attitude.
------paragraph needed soon--------

So it is with great joy that I enter the "Holiest Thread on
the BB" to criticize it. It can't be the holiest thread on the
BB--'cause I'm the holiest of all, and I'd have to be the one
to start it. I'm holier than you are Al--can't you get that through your thick head? And I'm proud that I'm so holy--it's taken years to get this holy--a lot of spiritual hard work, but I did it. I haven't sinned in over 15 years except for a white lie here and there, but I'm not counting that.

I'm so pure and holy that I surprise myself. When I look in the mirror I can't help but say "God bless you". I'm a joy to all those round about me. It took a lot of prayer to get this holy. Sometimes when I'm on my knees at 4:00A.M. I get so joyful about my holiness I have to scream into a pillow so I don't wake anyone. It's truly wonderful to be so holy.

There were times on my "stages on the Journey" when I was just so sinful. But through a lot of hard work I'm the holiest person I know now. Please accept my criticism of your thread Al, because both you and I know that I'm holier than you are. You just have to accept it. Humble yourself brother!!


God bless you Al.   -Joe

[al Hartman]

     Isn't he great, folks?  JOE SPERLING, Ladies and Gentlemen!!!  Let's give him a big hand!!!

     First he lambasts me to my knees with a blistering critique that took two posts (See "Old Earth/New Earth" thread) AND two personal emails to me.  Then, AFTER i have repented in sackcloth and ashes, he returns to APOLOGIZE for prompting me to get right with God!  But, wait'll you see his finale:  He turns "The Holiest Thread on the BB..." into a COMEDY thread with his self-deprecating monologue!!!


     OK, i admit it:  i have no one to blame but myself.  Joe used to live under my roof when i was the whip-cracking head of an assembly brothers' house.  i taught the poor guy everything he hasn't figured out yet!  

     For the record:  No matter what Joe has to work out with the Lord about his 'tude, his criticisms of my conduct online were accurate and inspired.
     i stand by the post with which i opened this thread 100 percent.
     And i stand behind Joe Sperling 100 percent.  In spite of years of my withering influence, he has grown to become a godly and good man.  Treat him with respect, or answer to me!
     (...but, before you actually DO anything he says, give him a day...  to see if he really meant it).


     ...just kidding on that last parenthetical!
     Thanks again, Brother Joe!!!

Your brother in Christ,
al

[Joe Sperling]

Wow. I guess it's better not to apologize sometimes. I should have stuck with my original version. Al has had a tendency of criticizing people and threads themselves--
When we spoke of "Old Earth/New Earth" in the Egyptian Mythology thread, he criticized saying "What does this have to do with Egyptian Mythology?" So Andrea created a new thread called "Old earth/New Earth" so we could talk about that specific subject.

Al then criticized that thread saying "Why this is being discussed on a BB dealing with Spiritual Direction is beyond me"( or something to that effect). I E-mailed Al and reminded him that many of his posts have nothing to do with "spiritual direction"--such as posts on joke pages etc., and to lighten up a bit---not every discussion has to be a high and loftyspiritual conversation. Al took it UPON HIMSELF to construct a lenghty apology to everyone on the BB.

All I had said is that he should lighten up a bit, not that he had to confess his sins. I felt terrible when I saw that post and felt I must have really struck a nerve(I REALLY must have struck a nerve or the remarks above would not have been penned). So I apologized to him---apparently it would have been better not to. I came to this thread in humor yes, because I felt Al had created it in humor. I had asked him "Why don't you create a thread called 'The holiest thread on the BB"and added the words "just kidding".

I felt that with everything said it was good to lighten up because everything had been taken way to seriously. But Al has taken it upon himself to hold me up to mockery, state how he really feels(deep resentment) and then say "but I'm behind brother Joe 100%".  I would never mock brother Al the way he has me above--I hope God blesses him. But I will stay in other threads from now on.  "Ladies and Gentlemen---Al Hartman--may God bless him"


--Joe

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Al And Joe,

OH HOLY MEN!  I COME BEFORE THEE ON BENDED KNEE!!  I AM NOT WORTHY TO BREATH THE SAME OXYGEN THAT YOU DO!!  I AM NOT WORTHY TO LICK THE DIRT THAT YOU WALKED ON!!    

God Bless you both.  You have been great examples on this Bulletin Board.  And I respect you now more than ever.

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson

[al Hartman]

     Hi Folks-- me again.  A few comments
about  Joe's last post:

Joe said:
I E-mailed Al and reminded him that many of his posts have nothing to do with "spiritual direction"--such as posts on joke pages etc., and to lighten up a bit---not every discussion has to be a high and lofty spiritual conversation.

i reply:
     Joe, The little smiley at the beginning of my last post-- the one that's grinning like a pig eating... pig food--  is supposed to clue you in that the post is of a HUMOROUS nature.  (As in response to your suggestion to "lighten up a bit").

Joe said:
 Al took it UPON HIMSELF to construct a lenghty apology to everyone on the BB.

i reply:
     This is entirely true:  i take full responsibility for my confession and apology, and i meant and mean every word of it.  To Joe i attribute credit for my inspiration.  i also wrote him a personal email of thanks and appreciation, but (again, at his suggestion) i began it in a humorous way, which he must have misinterpreted and perhaps never got to the good part.
     Joe, please read my opening post, below, again.  But this time, try to read it as a disinterested third party, keeping your personal feelings out of it.  If that works, try the same thing with my last post...

Joe said:
All I had said is that he should lighten up a bit, not that he had to confess his sins. I felt terrible when I saw that post and felt I must have really struck a nerve(I REALLY must have struck a nerve ...).  So I apologized to him---

i reply:
     Why on earth would you ever apologize for being instrumental in bringing someone nearer to Christ?  It was GOD who struck the nerve (it's called conviction of sin)-- you're good, but you're not THAT good!  Did you think my apology was a lie?  That i faked it just to appease YOU?  
     Brother, if you are going to submit yourself to God for him to use you, then learn to step aside and let him work.  
i understood immediately that your emotions were involved in your words to me, and THAT WAS NOT A PROBLEM!  The Lord spoke deeply to me through your writing, and i was humbled before him and prayed, then responded as i felt he would have me do.

Joe said:
apparently it would have been better not to.

i reply:
     All i can tell you, Joseph, is be sure God wants you to do something in the nature of ministry BEFORE you do it.  Then do it with confidence in him, and don't ever apologize for following his leading.

Joe said:
I came to this thread in humor yes, because I felt Al had created it in humor.  I had asked him "Why don't you create a thread called 'The holiest thread on the BB"and added the words "just kidding".  I felt that with everything said it was good to lighten up because everything had been taken way to seriously.

i reply:
     Have you ever seen anyone you considered a serious Christian confess or apologize in a humorous way, Joe?  
i can't conceive of the notion.  But i can see how you would expect humor because i used your suggested humorous title.  (i know you said you were kidding, but i thought it was a great idea to keep it from sounding too heavy).  i'm really sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
Joe said:
But Al has taken it upon himself to hold me up to mockery, state how he really feels(deep resentment)...

i reply:
     There was no mockery intended and there is not and never has been any resentment toward you, Brother Joe.  i'm REALLY sorry that my brand of humor rubs you the wrong way.  But you told me to lighten up, and my last post (NOT the first) is my version of trying to amuse.  At least i was amused.  The opening lines were borrowed from a "Calvin & Hobbes" comic strip.
     Folks, i'm making a public apology here because i never intended (nor even imagined) that Joe should be offended.  After he poked fun at himself AT GREAT LENGTH in HIS posts, it never occurred to me that he wouldn't see the humor in mine.  BUT, i'm not asking for your sympathy.  If you think my "humor" is too farfetched to be posted, please tell me.  The last thing i mean to do is offend anyone, which would never be a problem if i were half as clever as i seem to think i am.  ALL criticisms, of ANY nature, are invited-- i need your help.

Joe said:
...and then say "but I'm behind brother Joe 100%".  I would never mock brother Al the way he has me above...

i reply:  
     i repeat, i have intended NO mockery.  And i AM behind Joe 100 percent.  Did you catch the CONTEXT of what i said:
    "For the record:  No matter what Joe has to work out with the Lord about his 'tude, his criticisms of my conduct online were accurate and inspired.
    "i stand by the post with which i opened this thread 100 percent.
    "And i stand behind Joe Sperling 100 percent.  In spite of years of my withering influence, he has grown to become a godly and good man.  Treat him with respect, or answer to me!"
     i MEANT EVERY WORD, INCLUDING THE PART ABOUT HIS OVERCOMING MY CRUMMY INFLUENCE!
     ...and then i closed with:
    "(...but, before you actually DO anything he says, give him a day...  to see if he really meant it).
    "...just kidding on that last parenthetical!
    "Thanks again, Brother Joe!!!
Your brother in Christ,
al"

     Is it just me, or is the sincerity distinguishable from the humor, and do either display the intent to mock?

Then Joe said:
--I hope God blesses him... "Ladies and Gentlemen---Al Hartman--may God bless him"

...and i reply:
     Thank you Brother.  God bless you too.  i love you.
al

P.S.  ...and now, because of all this hullaballoo, i (yes, i, who have spoken out against too-lengthy posts) am in serious competition for longest post on the BB!!!

[4Him]

The inanity on this thread is incredible and very dry.  It's a nice diversion.  

I also like discussing the different possibilities of how God created the universe and the earth and man.

[al Hartman]

Brian, Tim changed my thread title!!!  Can he DO that???

Besides, sometimes he uses big words i don't understand!

i hope you'll say something to him!!!

[Joe Sperling]

Al----

No more apologies. You have a habit of saying things
seriously, and then saying you're joking later. Your post
was most definitely in a sarcastic and mocking manner and
reminded me of Assembly leadership, and how they would deal with anyone who questioned them. i know, because I
went through it every time I would question or try to "correct" a bad situation.

"Isn't he great folks? JOE SPERLING, ladies and Gentlemen!!
Let's give him a big hand!!"

Standard procedure: Single a brother out who has questioned you, in front of others--put all eyes on him--
because you're getting ready to tear him a new one.

"First he lambasts me to my knees with a blistering critique that took two posts(See Old earth/New Earth thread) AND(capitialized for emphasis) two personal E-mails to me."

Standard procedure: Blow everything way out of proportion to what really happened. Funny---your "confession" thanks me for "pointing out" something---this becomes "lambasting" in this post. And not only lambasting, but "to your knees"--- "blistering critique"?--come on! I put up two posts, mostly in good humor, to remind you that we were there to have fun. The two E-mails were one private one and a RESEND with a one paragraph attachment.

"Then, AFTER I have repented in sackcloth and ashes, he returns to APOLOGIZE for prompting me to get right with God! But wait'll you see his finale: he turns "The Holiest Thread on the BB..."Into a COMEDY thread with his self-deprecating monologue!!"

Standard Procedure: You've singled the brother out, you've put all eyes on him, you blow out of proportion what happened, mention your own holiness and devotion to God,
and belittle the brother some more in front of others. What seems to make you think you have the power to do this is directly out of the Assembly Leadership handbook(if there is one).

"OK, I admit it: I have no one to blame but myself. Joe used to live under my roof when I was a whip-cracking head of an assembly brother's house. I taught the poor guy everything he hasn't figured out yet!"

Standard Procedure: demean even further--"I guess I'm to blame for his idiotic behavior" I taught the "poor guy"--not the "brother", but the "poor guy" now "everything he hasn't figured out yet.  The brother's been singled out, all eyes on him, belittled, made guilty for making light of a Leader and then further told he doesn't know anything---
forgive him for questioning me folks, the "poor guy" is a
bit stupid.

"For the record: No matter what Joe has to work out with the Lord about his 'tude, his criticisms of my conduct online were accurate and inspired.

Standard procedure: You have questioned a leader so you must have an attitude problem. Anyone out there who has dealt with Assembly Leadership knows EXACTLY what I am
saying--any disputing with authority stems from an "attitude".  But now, after you have demeaned the brother in front of others it's time to bring everything back to what is REALLY IMPORTANT--prime them up for the next sentence.

"I stand by the post with which I opened this thread 1oo%"

Interpretation: "Folks---go back and read my repentance. it was heart-inspired, truly. I went to great lengths to write it and then Joe comes in here and starts making jokes--he spoiled the whole thing!! i had to put him down in front of all of you so that you could realize that what I have to say is very important!! And if that takes demeaning a person to get you to see that, I'll do it!!

"And I stand behind Joe Sperling 100 percent. In spite of my withering influence, he has grown to become a godly and good man. treat him with respect, or answer to me!

Standard Procedure: After demeaning the individual into the ground, reaffirm the fact that he is indeed your brother--
treat him with respect, even if the leader himself doesn't.
"or answer to me"--I can put down, demean and mock him--but don't you dare to do the same, 'cause I'm a leader.

"(But before you actually DO anything he says, give him a day... to see if he really meant it)
....just kidding on that last parenthetical!

I did really mean it and stated so---I said I was apologizing for HOW I may have stated things, not for the things themselves.

"Thanks again brother Joe!!!"

Thanks for letting me use you Joe. It was quite enjoyable to be in control and put you in your place once again. Perhaps you'll think twice before you question me again. I was able, through my demeaning of you to bring the spotlight back to where it should be: on my repentance, and what I have to say.

"Your brother in Christ,  Al"

Yes--we are brothers in Christ. It's amazing what a post on this BB can bring back to you. I've relived again what it felt like then to be pulled in front of the brothers for questioning authority, and what you had to go through.
Thanks for reminding me Lord.

[al Hartman]

Joe,

     No more apologies.  i have a habit of messing things up.  i have made my confession and apology-- they stand as stated.  But i will appeal to you:

     My confession and apology were stated FIRST, as were my personal letters of gratitude and appreciation to you.

     That you have ignored them, to be offended instead by my LATER attempt at humor, is YOUR CHOICE, not my desire.  Bad effort on my part to be amusing?-- Sure, i admit it.  You've made that quite obvious.  But intent to shame, humiliate or otherwise harm you?-- NO WAY!  Never happened, never will.

     But, to be fair, let's assume that i was really out to get you...  Sticks and stones?  No, just words.  If i truly were to slander you, Joe, what harm could i do to the redeemed of the Lord?  No weapon formed against you can succeed.  You are in Christ.  Who attacks you attacks him!  And he will deal summarily with those who attack his saints.
     No, Joe-- if i were to slander you, thus slandering Christ, my words would reflect badly upon ME, not upon you.  You would have nothing to be upset about, because i couldn't harm you, even if i tried.

     i failed to anticipate your reaction to what seemed to you to be assenbly leadership-like diatribe.  i didn't see it as such, but since you pointed it out today, i certainly understand where you're coming from.  What i don't understand is WHY?  Do you think i have come to this BB to gather a flock to myself and beat them?

     You have refused my explanation and apology.  You have rejected my request for forgiveness.  i don't hold these things against you, but i regret them as deeply as i regret having caused you pain.  You are my brother and my friend, and i love you.  If all you have for me is scorn, i will accept that as from the Lord, and try to learn what he wants me to from it, for as long as it takes.

al

P.S.  Friends, thanks to those who are praying for us, and to those who have written.  Please don't give up on us-- we need all the help we can get.

P.P.S.  Joe, GREAT job on the paragraphs!

[Joe Sperling]

Al---

I don't know what to say. I feel terrible. It looks like I
totally, totally misread your post. it truly sounded to me
more like mocking than humor---but it appears I was
wrong. I've probably done more damage than can be
repaired by what I have said. It seems I've turned this thread into the "biggest bummer on the BB" instead of it's real title. All I can say is that I'm sorry for what I have said Al. Maybe if you can forgive me you can show me how to properly use paragraphs one day.

take care,  Joe

[al Hartman]

To Whom It May Concern:

     This has been a rough couple of days for Joe and me.
We were friends and housemates in the San Fernando Valley in the 1970s, and were recently reunited through this BB.
     We've had a couple of misunderstandings over our respective posts, but the one that gave birth to this thread was a humdinger!  But we've got it ironed out and made peace with each other.  It's tempting now to just delete all our posts here and erase all memory of the dispute.
     But i think i'll wait a little while.  Anybody who drops in out of curiosity about the title will probably be surprised at what's here.  Maybe even horrified...  There were some difficult posts, by both of us.    But by the time you get to today's posts, the brouhaha has turned into a pretty impressive testimony to the Lord's kindness and wisdom as he overcomes our abilities to mess things up with his omnipotence.
     i was heartbroken at having brought about a situation which caused great pain to my brother, and i was powerless to rectify the matter.  It is the most helpless feeling, leaving nowhere to turn but to the Lord.
     "When all around my soul gives way,
          He then is all my hope and stay.
               On Christ the solid rock i stand,
                    All other ground is sinking sand."
     i prayed, the Lord answered, my brother and i are reunited.  Hallelujah!  ...and thanks for your prayers and letters!

al

[Joe Sperling]

Brother Al---

Amen!!

--Joe