So WHO Is Decieved???

[affirming]

lurker, i like your observations, but i will tell you you can't possibly really know what we're talking about unless you were there.  but it's nice to hear a foriegners perspective.  if you've never been to or lived in belgium, it's difficult to give directions to a citizen of belgium.  hey, but i like your spirit.

you are correct.  sometimes i don't answer questions posed to me - it's america - but you know i may just sound all spiritual and pious and aloof.  but i will suggest that i have grabbled with alot of these issues enough in my past that i will not even go into some of it again.  i'm trying to lift people up that are ready as i had some do for me.  those who aren't ready will generally bite your hand of.   so i try not to put it into the cage very far..understand.  

you're right about all of us being wacked out, but people who have gone through these kind of sufferings do get a little wacked out.  i will tell you  another thing - people in the assy's are brothers and sisters in some very, very unique ways.  like americans who fight among themselves - when there's an outside aggressor who threatens our nation watch everybody (almost everybody) get back to back and fight.  i believe each one will come to the end of the bitterness.  some sooner than others.  God is not done and time is a wonderful thing.  

thanks again lurker.  that name sounds like a stalker or something.  are you a believer?  i haven't read many of your posts?

[Lurker]

but you know i may just sound all spiritual and pious and aloof.  but i will suggest that i have grabbled with alot of these issues enough in my past that i will not even go into some of it again.  i'm trying to lift people up that are ready as i had some do for me.  those who aren't ready will generally bite your hand of.  so i try not to put it into the cage very far..understand.  

I have "grabbled" with alot of things too.   I am not a stalker, but a lurker.  That's what they call someone who reads on forums, but never says anything.

I am a believer, and I am sooo fascinated by cult behaviour.  I have some experience with Cooneyites, and Local Church people.  

From my view, I would say that your thoughts, Sondra,  are the most muddled and inconsistent of any of the current group of posters.

Here is one thing that cought my ear,  "verne, i don't care how you try to justify it - you're wrong in spirit.  you will find many to agree with you and pat you on the back.  but your fountain is pouring out dirty water my brother.  

the scriptures say alot less about straightening out a fool than the idea of love your enemies and curse not. "

Actually, the scriptures say "alot" more about straightening our a fool, much more.  but in your world, where you commune with God in a mystical way (big local church idea)  you only read the "love" parts of the bible, and only apply them to certain people.

that's it for me

God is not the author of confusion, but of a sound mind.  You are full of confusion,  at least your words and spelling is.  Not so for your opposition.

Lurker

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  Wow Lurker!  WWF styled warfare between Verne and Luke???!!  Please, all very funny , but not the spirit for edifying conversation!  Lets not make it any worse than it is by making such suggestions.
  Yes, people who have been in cults and cult like groups do have a fair amount of emotional issues to sort out.  Sondra is correct that the dynamics are difficult to understand from the outside looking in.  There is a progressive emotional reaction when the member discovers they have been deceived.  There is shame, sorrow over lost years, anger from being lied to and used, and hopefully moving on to healing and restoration in Christ.  
  Also, remember this is a BB and the conversation takes on a "crazy" tone, at times, because it is the nature of anon. conversation.  I don't know if any of you have been on a CB radio before, but what people will say is truly amazing, because they are not face to face with the other individuals.  It's kind of like the transformation that takes place on the Freeway when the meek Clark Kent type transforms into an aggressive competitive mode in his driving.
  The most entertaining posts' usually get the most attention and this makes the educational one's dull.  In the book, "Unholy Devotion" by Harold L. Bussell (Zondervan-1983) he talks about how there is a natural tendency to be drawn to speakers who are charismatic and dynamic.  He noticed, in his work with Christians as a pastor, that the dry and educational speaker, who really had something profitable to say, was ignored.
    Since the topic here is about deception there is a key in Mr Bussell's observations in understanding the issue of deception.  If we refuse to allow our comfortable emotionally based assumptions to be challenged by the entreaty of the Word of God we are in trouble.
   The Bible tells us that those that are not "easily entreated" do not have the wisdom that comes from above.  None of us are above this kind of scrutiny.  This alone should have told us GG was not of God (before all the immorality stuff even came to light).  It should also show us that posters here who refuse to respond to entreaty share the same cultic tendency.
   The protest of those being entreated is that the spirit of the entreaty must first be in the right spirit, or they are free to continue to propagate their false teaching; attempting to turn the tables on the noble enquirer.  This doesn't mean the one entreating is always correct, but the refusal to respond is always wrong and significant.
  I have already mentioned that Paul publically rebuked Peter, and in the argument even Barnabas was carried away.  Good ol' kind hearted Barnabas, the son of consolation; I think he was a peace maker and generally an easy going guy.  Maybe he thought Paul should have privately raised the issue, or that Paul's motives were anger, bitterness, reactionary, etc. against his former involvement in the erroneous pharisaical group?
  "Tone it down Paul!  We're all Christians here!  Submit to God and let him change the leadership!  You are not following the correct steps in entreaty; first come alone, than with a brother, and than tell the whole church!"   Let's bring in Johnnie Cochran to defend Peter and make sure the entreaty follows all the rules of jurisprudence."
  Humility is the Godly response to entreaty, and this means I humbly recieve my brother's concern, try to understand, and converse the issue with him.  We may not agree on everything, and in that case others brought into the conversation can help to bring perspective.  But, to ignore the discussion is pure arrogancy and aligns one with the false apostle crowd that Paul opposed so stridently.
  There is a simplicity in Christ that Satan seeks to entice us away from.  The Gospel is not difficult to understand and a casual reading of Galatians should reveal that certain posters here are in desperate need of returning to the Grace of God in Truth.  Understanding grace is key to a blessed life and to not understand it is to face a curse.
  I have tried to make my post a little entertaining, as well as instructive this time, in the hope of gaining listeners.
                                  God Bless,  Mark
             

[Matt]

Sorry for not using the quote feature, just cut and pasting here:
Lurker: "Gee,

Let me guess, you are in an assembly too?"

Me: Wow, you could tell all that from me saying that Luke Robinson was hilarious instead of irritating?! Could you also tell that I have brown eyes and that my cousin Karlene is not feeling well?

Lurker:"Matt, are from Luke's assembly?

perhaps I'm not lurking as much.  I'll see how it is."

Me: I'm not sure what you're trying to say. To answer the first part, no, I do not go to luke's assembly. I don't even know who he is. As for lurking and for seeing how everything is, please give yourself a chance to sober up first. Nobody wants a drunk butt swaggering around and "lurking" about.

[wolverine]

Dear Verne,

I have not taken offense at anything you have said so far...I completely understand that you, being an older man, feel threatened by us, being much younger than you...(For the record, I am going to be 21 in two weeks)...You feel threatened especially by my younger brother because your responses can not match his...you have been embarrased publicly by being revealed as a fraud and a hypocrite and now, by any means possible, you must STOP THOSE ROBINSON BOYS!!!  The little comments about the diapers and the public spankings were cute!!!  I enjoyed them immensely, but as Luke pointed out, I'm sure that noone read that and thought, "WOW, what a great, mature man.  If only I could be like him someday..."  
Dear Sir,
You're trying very hard and for that I commend you but as was seen with John Malone trying to back us down by unbiblical intimidation, it just didn't happen...You see, my father (the one you have critisized here) taught us to THINK!!! and not to give in to stupidity (oh yeah, the whole "parents" thing...you're running out of weapons, my man...what next, big fella'?)
Just because you're older doesn't mean you're wiser...but I am pushin' for you, dear sir...
I would be more than happy to continue this with you because I have your best interests in mind...Have a great day!!!

Verne, Verne...He's our man. If he can't do it, I'm sure anyone else can...

[Matt]

If the BB would like me to leave him to the tender care of others more capable, I will gladly comply...
Verne

Rather, Verne, I think the BB would like you to stop embarrasing yourself. Don't have you have anything better to do than harrass people half your age? Maybe some knitting needs to get done? Or catching up on your almanac?

[Matt]

Dear Luke!
  You can't possibly remember, but there are probably those here who do, a TV show called, "lost in Space".  The family was called Robinson (after swiss family Robinson) and they were marooned on a unknown planet, with no way to get back to Earth.
   There was this robot that would always run around with the young boy, named Will Robinson, and announce, "Danger, Danger Will Robinson", as he blundered off into some dangerous situation.
   I go into this long introduction because I have thought of that old TV show in regard to some of your posts
               DANGER, DANGER LUKE ROBINSON!!  
   

oh....NO! It is people like you that make me feel sorry for those with the last name of Robinson. You probably thought you were the first person to ever tell him "danger danger will robinson." Sorry if you were offended, but please man try to come up with something a little more original....

[MGov]

In addition this BB has the unfortunate quality of making people who post seem fairly one-dimensional and I think that is one of the problems. Sarcasm, humor, and witty remarks lose something without facial expression, tone of voice, eye contact.  I am not saying that I agree with every word Paul or Luke have written or the tone in which it has been written, but do any of us agree with anyone here 100%?
I know we all have better things to do than read the jabs and jibes that have been prevalent on this thread. I would like to think that everyone here has enough maturity (whether young or old) to maintain some semblance of dignity and respect for the opinions of others without pulling out the swords.

It is much more helpful when we stick to issues and stop with the personal attacks and that does apply to young and old. If you must at the very least use IM so the rest of us don't have to wade through the barbs.
 

Dear Verne, Heide, affirming, Luke and Paul, and To Whom This May Concern

Consider what Pat has written (as quoted above).  I suggest the you/we all IGNORE the bait and stick with the topic.  When you feel provoked "take 6 minutes off"(no insult or sarcasm intended here) before replying.

Love and God bless,
a sister in the Lord

[brian]

ok, break it up, everyone, back to your corners...

this thread has degenerated from warm (heated?) discussion to a bashfest. this is a waste of everyone's pixels. i don't care who started it or whose fault it is, just stop the personal insults and attacks and lets get back to meaningful debate. paul, before you mock my use of the word meaningful - i am becoming convinced that your sole purpose here is to disrupt any meaningful debate you deny the existence of so vehemently. if that is so, then please go away. if you really do want to contribute meaningfully, then work harder on doing that and restrain your purposefully inciting comments. luke, you seem more interested in serious discussion than your brother, but your comments can get pretty inciteful and insulting as well - work on not posting like that. verne, i have to admit that some of what you posted about the robinson boys has made me cringe, but i feel partly responsible since things might not have gotten this bad if i was doing a better job as admin.

from now on, everyone feel free to click on the little 'report to moderator' link that accompanies each message if the message is overly taken up with attacking and insulting others on the board personally. it'll really help me keep track of whats going on. i just hate to see threads dissolve into nasty personal fights. ugh.

as others have said, it can sometimes be difficult to interpret exactly how something written here was intended. roughly 80% of communication is non-verbal in a flesh-n-blood conversation. so try to express yourselves clearly (assuming your intention is to AVOID offense), and when reading posts try to be patient and tolerant. try rereading that stinging attack with a friendly/punchy, or heartfelt/concerned tone of voice in your head. look for ways to understand each other better, rather than misinterpreting each other for the sake of oneupmanship. things like that...

so... what were you all saying again about the dangers of a spiritual life that has gotten so 'deep' that control is perceived as love, and freedom is forced and exhausting... who is deceived and who wants to be...?

[Heide]

Sondra,

Your message to Lurker, "You can't possible know what you are talking about unless you were there...." What?

No one has to be there and understand sin. There were many people from the SLO assembly who didn't see the whole picture. Once Rachel's story came out and then Judys, they got it. Once George was excommunicated they got it. They weren't in the midst of "it" but they got it. They left.  You don't have to be there in order to understand sin running rampant in your neighbors camp.

Thanks MGov, I always get up and get something to drink when I don't get it or it hits me wrong. Sometimes I just sign off and go garden or run my errands. If I really don't get it, I copy and paste it to a friend to see if they can figure it out.

Heide

[Mark C.]

Dear Matt
  I'm sorry that I bothered you with my 60's TV trivia, but I would have thought that young folks like Luke would not be aware of the TV program.  It also was a failed attempt at humor.  I was trying to lighten up the conversation a bit as it was getting intense.
  I would much rather have had responses to the meat of my posts' vs. challenges re. my lack of clever packaging, but it seems that this is the focus at present.
  Please accept my apology for boring you.
    Now, what do you think about the issue of deception?  Are you a present Assembly member?  What is your view of the Gospel and the Christian life?  These are the important issues that will not waste our pixels one whit.
                                  God Bless,  Mark

[MGov]

Vituperative Verne??
My vocabulary is not very vast.

How many v's in this post??

All in good humor.
Lord bless.

[affirming]

heide,  i would like to quote myself correctly - just one or two words misquoted can make quite a big difference.

your quote: "You can't possible know what you are talking about unless you were there...."

original quote:  lurker, i like your observations, but i will tell you you can't possibly really know what we're talking about unless you were there.  but it's nice to hear a foriegners perspective.  

it has a very different sound doesn't it.  i believe the way i put it originally has a ring of respect and courtesy - would you agree?

first of all i think you said that you were a marine - am i correct?  i've been a little out of it as of late.  i can't tell you how impressed i am with our marines fighting for our country.   it just brings tears when i hear their brave and courageous perspectives as they are interviewed by various embedded reporters.  it's war and war is ugly, but many of these men and women are shining.

heide, you are right. sin is sin.  you are certainly right about so many things i've heard you say about the ungracious and cruel ways people were treated in the assy and about sin in the lives of those who were leading...some perhaps knowing they were sinning and some unaware.  (that's a big can of worms)  some who sinned and should have known better, but perhaps could not help themselves...not excusing it, but i've been there.  i've killed my share of christians with words being very well intensioned at the time.  people who live under the law are deadly killers and they are also lawbreakers on the other hand.  wonder how i know this?

i don't mean to sound condescending heide, not at all, but as one who had a huge offence going for several years i will tell you that eventually your offence will soften....that is to say if you continue to love and seek the Lord.  mine did.  i, at first rejected the suggestion from a godly friend that i wasn't forgiving and putting offence away.  eventually, that still small voice came through to my heart.  the Lord said, you know we need to talk about something - you have offence in your heart and need to start working on getting it worked out.  i did not change the offenders. they are still today as awful as they were back then...but my heart is free because i now refuse offence and i will forgive as a discipline.  otherwise i will go back to living in death and not in life in the spirit.

have a great day dear (being sincere).

[wolverine]

Dear all,

I fully admit that I am an instigator...Most of what I post is tongue-in-cheek...I know I am fully hated on this BB and the more hatred that was shown to me, the more fun posting became...It's like trying to put out a fire with gasoline...But its all becoming ridiculous...and Brent is taking 6 weeks off...
So, I know a huge celebration will ensue, but if Brent takes 6 weeks off, I am taking 6 weeks off also...I respect him and desire to join him in letting the BB simmer down a bit...I am not affended at all by any posts here and if anyone here has been offended by me here I ask that they would email me or private message me...And if you have read this far without stopping to celebrate, I thank you...I am honored...
 

Paul

[Heide]

Affirming/Sondra:

I'm not going to split hairs with you. You come in here and quote all kinds of scriptures but you leave one thing out. We are talking about sin and deception. How you call George really is the bottom line here. Either you say, yea, he was in sin and is in sin or you say peace, love and understanding and forget it. I myself will get into trouble here when I say I probably have my own spirituality going on. Not only is there a christian issue at hand there is also a moral issue. In our society, generally a man is brought up on charges and his jury of peers decide his fate. This isn't something new age. This is what our forefathers thought of, a way to keep man in line. George has shown what he is made out of. Has he repented? NO He has shown a cowardly exit. The elders of Fullerton have asked that because of George and his sin not to allow him up to preach. If we all act as you, who will hold up this judgement from men? If we put this away who will tell the sheep? Have you no care for your brethren? The little sheep who are still in bondage. Get to the heart of the issue and stop dancing around it.

Let's talk deception: Verne, George always claimed that we did not hold onto a paid clergy. And that it was wrong. BUT. George was getting paid. Other than a clear case of hypocrisy, do you know what the justification was for this?

Heide