So WHO Is Decieved???

[Heide]

Reading some of this general discussion brings up an interesting question in my mind. What if George wasn't saved and this is all just a huge con? If George wasn't saved we really can't ask him to repent... Maybe that is a better con because he can come back and say that through all of this he has seen the light, the real light mind you and he has seen the pattern and is ready to share. Sound familiar?

Or perhaps GG is saved and was just corrupted by his own evil works?

Heide

P.S. What about all the people he has driven away from Christ?

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  Different former members always have a different point of view re. how to classify the Assembly/ GG.  To some there was much positive mixed with some negative, or vice versa, but an individual's experience doesn't really tell us what the motives or the eternal state of GG were (they can give us clues:"by their fruit we can know them")  
  My question is:  How does God see it?  Is there anyway to see things the way that He might see them in this situation?  The answer to these questions are far more helpful than individual experience and can only be discovered by understanding how Jesus and the Apostles handled certain errors and problems in the early church.  These errors and problems were identified as systems that the NT calls "the spirit of error".
   Jesus main religious enemies were the Pharisees, and in MT. 23 Jesus gives us a clear unvailing of this evil merit system.  Paul dealt mainly with Judaizers, who also proposed a system that was contrary to grace (Gal.).  John dealt with the emergence of the Gnostics, who taught a false mysticism.
   I can see much of the above errors in Assembly practice and teaching and as such I must conclude that the Assembly was not just a church gone bad, but an erroneous system, like a cult.
    A church out of the way is entreatable when God calls to them to repent (my sheep hear my voice).  The issue isn't making mistakes, but not being able to receive correction.  Wisdom that comes from above is "easy to be entreated".
   Those that wish to "reform" the Assembly, instead of repent(change their thinking) re. the Assembly will never lay the axe to the root,  and as such out of the ground will spring a plant similar to the old Assembly tree.
   Was there something "good" in the religion of the Pharisees?  Yes, they were monotheists, had the Bible, supported morality/familly values, etc., but that is not the question to ask.  The question to ask is, How did Jesus view them, and what was the key for deliverance from these groups?  Undoubtedbly, the spirit of truth is revealed in the Gospel of the grace of God and all those who were emeshed in an evil system that distorted that Gospel must find renewal and restoration in an understanding of that message.  
   It is difficult to hear that message if I don't seek instruction outside of the old system.  Assembly principles of Biblical interpretation and erroneous methods of hearing God's Word will only further cloud the understanding.  "Come out from among them and be ye separate."
                       God Bless,  Mark

[M2]

Are we saying that when we gathered to worship the Lord that it wasn't legitimate?

Was it 'legitimate' the way God looks at it?  We were all deceived and sincerely believed that it was 'legitimate'. There are many in other religions who are 'sincerely' serving God as well, but are deceived. The assemblies were 'controlled' by a false teacher, George Geftakys.

2Pet 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2Pet 2:2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2Pet 2:3a and in their greed they will exploit you with false words;

GG lived a lie prior to and for the duration of his "ministry". We were decieved into believing that he was a godly man. The source of his ministry was corrupt; truth intermingled with error/lies. That which GG 'touched' was not of God.

To quote another, 'God in his mercy delivered us from George.'  So now we have the opportunity of learning anew from other Christian sources.  The BB is a helpful resource as most, if not all, posters are ex-assembly-ites.

That's all for now,
Marcia

[Margaret]

Mark, are you implying that the "church" at Galatia wasn't really a church (false legalism)?  Or Colossae (false mysticism)? Or Laodicea (smugness)?  Or is it that God is not pleased with such errors in the churches and sends correction, which if not heeded, removes the testimony?

[Arthur]

Are we saying that when we gathered to worship the Lord that it wasn't legitimate?

Well, I know that I worshiped from my heart--still do.  God knows it too. That's as legitimate as it gets.  
And I know I wasn't the only one who worshiped from the heart out of genunine thanksgiving and praise.


Arthur

[Arthur]

Mark, are you implying that the "church" at Galatia wasn't really a church (false legalism)?  Or Colossae (false mysticism)? Or Laodicea (smugness)?  Or is it that God is not pleased with such errors in the churches and sends correction, which if not heeded, removes the testimony?

Those churches were started by Paul or one of his associates that had his approval.  Paul was a true apostle.  George started the assembly.  I think that's a big difference.

Some of the people's belief's were real.  That's about it.
There were Christians there, more than two or three.  So we met--within the assembly,  despite the assembly.  
There were some blemishes in our feasts of charity, though.


Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you. II Pet 2:13b

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear.  Jude 1:12

[Mark C.]

Hi Margaret!
  Yes, and thanks Arthur, as this was the same answer that I was going to give.  The NT churches you mentioned were started by Paul and began with a proper foundation, but the Assemblies were started on a foundation of deceitful handling of the word of God, abusive control, and deceit by GG in his personal life.
  That there were/are sincere Christians in the Assembly there can be no doubt, but as a group it operated in a manner as manipulative and abusive as a cult.  
  If GG had started the group before he had been involved in immorality, and without his abusive control of the members, there may have been some claim to a proper foundation.
  Paul and Jesus did warn Galatia and Laodicea that if they continued to follow false teachers they would not experience God's endorsement.  Though individual believers would still be saved the groups above would not be recognized as gathering in the Name of Jesus Christ, and consequently would not be a true church.
  The teaching and practices of the Assembly were not matters of ignorance or weakness, but of willful systematic evil that brought serious offense to God's little ones.  To attempt to pick through the "bath water" to find a baby worth not throwing out is difficult for those who have been out for years and an impossible task for present members.
  One of the great values of understanding our past involvement is the wisdom and discernment we can gain.  By seeing how GG twisted principles of interpretation, minimized salvation, taught a false holiness, and abusively controlled the members, we then can see in bright contrast how God would have us to read His word, see the greatness of our salvation, live a Christian life based on grace, and learn how to love one another.
   This can add a depth to our lives that God can use to bless others in a way that we would never have been able to do without our Assembly sufferings. Those who just leave without the above consideration are missing a great opportunity.
                           God Bless,  Mark
   

[Oscar]

Hi folks,

I have been on a trip, and am currently staying at the Sable's in NC.

I don't think that scripture teaches that there is a difference between a church and its testimony.

In Revelation, it speaks of removing the candlestick.  That has LITERALLY come to pass.  Those cities, except for Smyrna, don't exist today, only ruins.

I know of only a Catholic Church at Smyrna. Is the candlestick removed?  How does one know?

Thomas Maddux

[James]

Many refer to the heresy taught by George. Particularly works based righteousness. I haven't heard all his seminars nor have I read all his books but I have to say I have never heard him say one works to the kingdom.

I just quickly picked up a couple of his books to see what he does say.

Once for all Reality:
"We receive His victory by faith." Pg 26
"As we walk the christian life by faith He forms us." Pg 29
"We aquire holiness by faith." Pg 30
"Money or talent or trying to live a good life cannot achieve this holiness for us." Pg 30

Significance of the Blood of Christ
"The Lord has made all provsion for our full salvation. By faith inour Lord Jesus' completed work we will come to the most holy place." Pg 15

These are just a few quotes. You may think I am defending George. I am not. I am just quoting what his books say. It appears to be accurate.

[retread]

These are just a few quotes. You may think I am defending George. I am not. I am just quoting what his books say. It appears to be accurate.

Ah yes, there must be enough truth so that people will follow him.  A lot less would be deceived if this wasn't the case.  But remember, it only takes a little leaven to leaven the whole loaf.

1 Corinthians 5

1   It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2   And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3   For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4   In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5   To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6   Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7   Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8   Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9   I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10   Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11   But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12   For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13   But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

[James]

I am not questioning his behavior and the consequence of it. I am just wondering about the reported heresy.

[sfortescue]

This article describes some of the heresy:

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Articles/TeachingPractice/GGPublishedWritings.htm

[Mark C.]

Hi James!
  One of the most difficult things for us in trying to understand GG's teaching is in comprehending the subtleties and contradictions in his confused ramblings.
  You mentioned that some of GG's quotes seem to support an orthodox view of salvation in that he uses the word "faith" in re. to attaining to same vs. language that would seem to support works.
  One must understand how GG understands faith re. salvation first to see how his theology is off base.  As the article by Lee Irons that Steve Fortescue highlighted (please read it) shows GG taught one kind of faith for "initial" salvation vs. another definition for the word faith for entering fully into a complete salvation.
   This second kind of faith that GG describes transforms the Biblical meaning of faith from simple reception of a free gift to one of an act of will that takes possession of a reward.  Though GG says our full sanctification is all of Christ's work in fact he teaches we must actualize this holiness in our lives through our own devout effort or we will lose out on "so great salvation".
  Such phrases as "reckon", "lay hold", "put to death", etc. are said to be acts of faith that achieve our perfection.  The bible teaches that the above actions are a result of a full and complete salvation and not the means to achieve salvation.
   GG attempted to diffuse the criticism of his teaching by making statements like, "not that we can lose our salvation", but by his making the freely given part of salvation almost worthless in fact he establishes his objective of encouraging Christians to live their lives before God on the basis of their performance.  That this is the error found in Galatians there can be no doubt, and that such teaching is toxic to the lives of believers can be attested to over and over again by former members.
                                            God Bless,  Mark

[Arthur]

Many refer to the heresy taught by George. Particularly works based righteousness. I haven't heard all his seminars nor have I read all his books but I have to say I have never heard him say one works to the kingdom.

I just quickly picked up a couple of his books to see what he does say.

Once for all Reality:
"We receive His victory by faith." Pg 26
"As we walk the christian life by faith He forms us." Pg 29
"We aquire holiness by faith." Pg 30
"Money or talent or trying to live a good life cannot achieve this holiness for us." Pg 30

Significance of the Blood of Christ
"The Lord has made all provsion for our full salvation. By faith inour Lord Jesus' completed work we will come to the most holy place." Pg 15

These are just a few quotes. You may think I am defending George. I am not. I am just quoting what his books say. It appears to be accurate.

James, that is a fair and valid question.

I have wondered the same thing, since I don't remember him specifically saying too many things that I thought were way off (the "God created man on the 8th day" one was obvious, but other than that).

There is verifiable evidence in George's writings of his heresy (some of which have already been alluded to--in the articles on the GA site).  I personally have studied Once for All Reality and found the heresy, but it's been a while and I'll have to look it up again post it for you.  I do remember that he starts off good with sound teaching, but there is a subtle twist midway through.

The main problem in the assembly was not in what was said most of the time, but what was inferred.  There was what was said, but then there was meant and what was practiced.  The two were totally different.  Little hints and suggestions here and there and then actions taken all made it clear to us that what was meant was way different that what was said. It was a veil and a deception.  

Have you see the good articles that Brent wrote on this, check them out here:

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Articles/TeachingPractice/CodeOfSilence.htm

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Articles/TeachingPractice/LeavenOfPharisees.htm

[Joe Sperling]

Stephen---

Thanks for that link. That is an excellent article to read concerning the false teachings of Brother George.

---Joe