So WHO Is Decieved???

[James]

"The teachings, if taken one at a time, are not that bad, but the preponderance of elitist mentality coupled with the intensity of the practice brings them out in sharp relief."

"The ministry needs to change, drastically, but it does not deserve to be labeled a cult."

"The basic doctrines like The Trinity, Justification by faith, The Person and work of Christ, original sin and others are fundamental and sound. The group has a few aberrant teachings, which we will discuss below, but for the most part the uniqueness of the Geftakys group is in practice, not doctrine."

These were quotes from the Rick Ross site. The author was an assembly member for 17 years.

[M2]

I agree with your brother and go one step further. There were many people involved in the assemblies who absolutely knew what they were seeing and hearing was unscriptural and ungodly. They knew it. The reason for their inaction was a paralysing cowardice!
This is understandable if one was unwilling to pay the price for standing for truth. Look at the stupidity of the brother who thinks he is somehow more holy for shunning you for your rejection of a devil like George Geftakys. Go figure...
Verne

I would like to make 2 observations here Verne.

1.  Many of us were sincerely deceived and, therfore, unsure of how the pieces of the puzzle fit together.

2. The brother in the Lord, who is shunning me, is not shunning me because of my rejection of a devil like GG, but because he does not agree with me that though GG ruled then it follows that the assembly was/is a cult.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[editor]

"The teachings, if taken one at a time, are not that bad, but the preponderance of elitist mentality coupled with the intensity of the practice brings them out in sharp relief."

"The ministry needs to change, drastically, but it does not deserve to be labeled a cult."

"The basic doctrines like The Trinity, Justification by faith, The Person and work of Christ, original sin and others are fundamental and sound. The group has a few aberrant teachings, which we will discuss below, but for the most part the uniqueness of the Geftakys group is in practice, not doctrine."

These were quotes from the Rick Ross site. The author was an assembly member for 17 years.

please post the url for the above information. I suspect that it needs updating.

MM

I am the author of this article, and most of the stuff on RickRoss.  When I wrote this, I hadn't fully understood everything, but I was also wanting to remain as balanced and calm as possible.  I also hadn't been excommunicated yet...

Now, I still maintain that the Assemblies were cultic in the cultural sense, but Christian in the sense that the members were truly saved.

It is true that the fundamental doctrines of the Trinity, are sound.  It is what happens after a person gets saved where George goes way off.  The article that this person is quoting was meant to be an accurate, balanced account of what it is like to be fully committed to the group.  I still think it is accurate.  I never said what drastic change looked like in the article, but certainly repentance is at the top of the list of changes.

Brent

[M2]

I am the author of this article, and most of the stuff on RickRoss.  When I wrote this, I hadn't fully understood everything, but I was also wanting to remain as balanced and calm as possible.  I also hadn't been excommunicated yet...

Now, I still maintain that the Assemblies were cultic in the cultural sense, but Christian in the sense that the members were truly saved.

It is true that the fundamental doctrines of the Trinity, are sound.  It is what happens after a person gets saved where George goes way off.  The article that this person is quoting was meant to be an accurate, balanced account of what it is like to be fully committed to the group.  I still think it is accurate.  I never said what drastic change looked like in the article, but certainly repentance is at the top of the list of changes.

Brent

Are you the guy with the yatch, and the originator of the zone diet fad?  What else have you done?

[editor]

[Are you the guy with the yatch, and the originator of the zone diet fad?  What else have you done?

Sadly, when it comes to Geftakys busting, I have personally done most of what has been done, especially up unitl January of this year.  Now, things are evening out some, with many others getting involved and not being so fearful to say or do something.

It would be foolish to conclude that everyone should start a website, or write articles, like I did.  However, I know there are many of you out there, who want something to be done, who are looking for a champion.  I know this, because you call or email me and urge me to "do something about this."  "This" is often across the continent!

I would like to encourage all of you to stand up and take responsiblility/blame for what you have been involved in.  Warn others, confront, rebuke, expose, encourage...whatever you do, don't be passive, helpless and pathetic.  Stand up for the truth and expose the unfruitful works of darkness.

The righteous are as bold as lions, but the wicked flee when no man pursues.

Brent

[mithrandir]

[Are you the guy with the yatch, and the originator of the zone diet fad?  What else have you done?

Sadly, when it comes to Geftakys busting, I have personally done most of what has been done, especially up unitl January of this year.  Now, things are evening out some, with many others getting involved and not being so fearful to say or do something.

It would be foolish to conclude that everyone should start a website, or write articles, like I did.  However, I know there are many of you out there, who want something to be done, who are looking for a champion.  I know this, because you call or email me and urge me to "do something about this."  "This" is often across the continent!

I would like to encourage all of you to stand up and take responsiblility/blame for what you have been involved in.  Warn others, confront, rebuke, expose, encourage...whatever you do, don't be passive, helpless and pathetic.  Stand up for the truth and expose the unfruitful works of darkness.

The righteous are as bold as lions, but the wicked flee when no man pursues.

Brent

I say amen to the statements made above.  Let's be proactive in warning others about existing Geftakys groups - especially the more dangerous ones.  In our warnings, we need to have our facts straight, and we need to be objective in our statements, but we also need to speak up!  Imagine the damage that may be done to unsuspecting newcomers who come under the influence of some of the people we have known, in some of the groups we have known - if we don't speak up.

mithrandir

[editor]

I say amen to the statements made above.  Let's be proactive in warning others about existing Geftakys groups - especially the more dangerous ones.  In our warnings, we need to have our facts straight, and we need to be objective in our statements, but we also need to speak up!  Imagine the damage that may be done to unsuspecting newcomers who come under the influence of some of the people we have known, in some of the groups we have known - if we don't speak up.

mithrandir

Yes, and the first step is to use our names and tell people who we are, so they can take what we have to say seriously!    Not to rush you into rash behavior, but even geftakysservants have a right to face their accusers, and if we are going to accuse them, they have a right to know who we are!

Brent

[mithrandir]

Yes, and the first step is to use our names and tell people who we are, so they can take what we have to say seriously!    Not to rush you into rash behavior, but even geftakysservants have a right to face their accusers, and if we are going to accuse them, they have a right to know who we are!

Brent

Okay, Brent, I'll take your suggestion.  I picked the name mithrandir for two reasons:
1.  Some people I call dear friends are still in a Geftakys group, and I didn't want to risk the collateral damage of wrecked relationships.
2.  mithrandir is a cool character in a well-known literary trilogy.

But seriously, reason #1 is the predominant thing weighing on my mind.  I believe that there are Geftakys groups out there that are still very dangerous.  I believe that people at large need to be warned about them.  I have spoken and written in private to certain leaders in one of these groups, to persuade them to repent and step down, and the answers  I have gotten have been unsatisfactory.  The day may soon come when I will have to cast aside all niceties, and be very blunt and open with these people.  When that happens, I will   be just as blunt on this bb (including the use of my real name).

mithrandir

[editor]

Yes, and the first step is to use our names and tell people who we are, so they can take what we have to say seriously!    Not to rush you into rash behavior, but even geftakysservants have a right to face their accusers, and if we are going to accuse them, they have a right to know who we are!

Brent

Okay, Brent, I'll take your suggestion.  I picked the name mithrandir for two reasons:
1.  Some people I call dear friends are still in a Geftakys group, and I didn't want to risk the collateral damage of wrecked relationships.
2.  mithrandir is a cool character in a well-known literary trilogy.

But seriously, reason #1 is the predominant thing weighing on my mind.  I believe that there are Geftakys groups out there that are still very dangerous.  I believe that people at large need to be warned about them.  I have spoken and written in private to certain leaders in one of these groups, to persuade them to repent and step down, and the answers  I have gotten have been unsatisfactory.  The day may soon come when I will have to cast aside all niceties, and be very blunt and open with these people.  When that happens, I will   be just as blunt on this bb (including the use of my real name).

mithrandir

Cool!  I tried to be nice for several years, as did Kirk C. and others.  What we found out is that talking in private to Geftakysservants is like speaking to a post.  You might as well talk to a cat, or llama.  They know who you are if you wrote them in private, and they have been using the last how many months in order to slander you, and poison the well, so that no one will listen to you.  That's Assembly leadership 101.

read this:  http://www.geftakysassembly.com/fear.html

Brent

[vernecarty]

I agree with your brother and go one step further. There were many people involved in the assemblies who absolutely knew what they were seeing and hearing was unscriptural and ungodly. They knew it. The reason for their inaction was a paralysing cowardice!
Verne

I think it is easy for someone with all the facts (ie from this website) to look back and accuse those who stayed longer than they did. Every one of us had our reasons...probably not good ones, but I think they were understandable ones.

Pat please don't misunderstand me on this - I was as big a coward as the most cowardly...my own eventual departure does not excuse my failure to speak out...we simply were not faithful and true to our Lord Jesus Christ...granted, in varying degrees of culpability but nevertheless, all of us who did and said nothing were unfaithful...our deception took place with our willing permission...

"The teachings, if taken one at a time, are not that bad, but the preponderance of elitist mentality coupled with the intensity of the practice brings them out in sharp relief."

"The ministry needs to change, drastically, but it does not deserve to be labeled a cult."

"The basic doctrines like The Trinity, Justification by faith, The Person and work of Christ, original sin and others are fundamental and sound. The group has a few aberrant teachings, which we will discuss below, but for the most part the uniqueness of the Geftakys group is in practice, not doctrine."

These were quotes from the Rick Ross site. The author was an assembly member for 17 years.

This thinking is pernicious in the extreme and as Brent pointed out his thinking on this has certainly evolved. You cannot devorce doctrine from deportment - As a man thinketh...Bad docrine leads to bad conduct...make no mistake about it. While the false doctrines purveyed by Geftakys and his disciples were subtle, this did not lessen their insidiousness - witness the results! Anyone still thininkg that George Geftakys was sound in the faith and that the failure of the assemblies was only in matters of practice does not understand the nature of deception...

1.  Many of us were sincerely deceived and, therfore, unsure of how the pieces of the puzzle fit together.

2. The brother in the Lord, who is shunning me, is not shunning me because of my rejection of a devil like GG, but because he does not agree with me that though GG ruled then it follows that the assembly was/is a cult.

Lord bless,
Marcia

To 1., our deception continues only as long as we fail to heed the voice of our Shepherd.
To 2., a posture that is in view of that evidence available to us, nonetheless manifestly foolish beyond comprehension...

Verne

[James]

This thinking is pernicious in the extreme

Verne, you haven't a slightest clue what I am thinking. You throw words at people and about people that lack any grace whatsoever. You would do well to listen rather than judge ones thoughts. Because someone does not have your degree of hatred you attack the individual. The only perniciousness here comes from you, and that is extreme.

[M2]

Verne certainly has a way with words.  My vocabulary has increased dramatically since I have been on this BB. Verne definitely gets animated when he expresses himself.  Please do not take it as a personal attack James. Your statements and queries are valid as an honest inquirer.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[Joe Sperling]

James---

I think you need to go back and re-read what Verne is saying. He is not saying "your thinking" is pernicious to the extreme---he is saying that the quotes called out are pernicious, and mentions that the author of them has drastically changed his thinking since then. Verne is quite atstute with his wording, and I honestly don't see them as any kind of attack upon you or your character.

I have often made the mistake on the BB of reading something too quickly, making a reply, then realizing later that the person wasn't saying what I thought they were.
And Verne has probably been one of the people I have done this to.

God bless you,  Joe

[Mark C.]

Dear James!
   I have been absent for the week from the BB, and in reading back a few posts I came across your statement that suggested that the Assembly was not a cult.  I believe you made the point that the teaching of the Assembly was orthodox, but the practices were cultic.  I would like to answer that suggestion.
  CRI (Christian Research Institute) makes the same kind of distinction that you do between "teaching" and "practice".  CRI also separates erroneous teaching into two categories: heretical and aberrant.  While the above classifications may be useful on a scholarly basis they are not Biblical distinctions.
  The NT talks of "fruit" (behavior/practice) as one of the tests in discovering whether a teacher is false or true.  Some have said, "well, all are sinners and therefore all ministries are disqualified if we judge their fruit."  We see in Peter an example of what God wants us to understand in that respect.  Peter sinned, but repented; false teachers sin and refuse to repent (GG).  So, it is not sinful behavior per se, but a leader's reaction to being called to repent of same.  Humility is the hallmark of Godly leadership vs. pride, the sin of the Devil.
   Can you imagine Jesus telling GG, "Well done!  you held to some aberrant teaching, but you were pretty much orthodox in other areas, and as a side note you abused my little one's, but that is a separate category!"  I don't think Jesus will see things that way.
  I don't know how much of GG's teaching you are aware of.  There is some that he has not made public for years, and in an attempt to diffuse criticism he has tried to present true orthodoxy, that contradicts heretical teachings he holds, but he claims both can exist together. (this, among others, is a very subtle subterfuge that GG used.)
  Of these the most dangerous is his false holiness teaching. CRI may find this teaching "aberrant", but Paul declares it as Galatianism and "cursed".  Paul goes on to make the point that it is destructive to the individual's Christian life, the Christian testimony, and a most serious departure from the Gospel!  Paul calls it a "pseudo gospel".
  The Bible never uses the word "cult" (latin word for a system of worship. Modern use of the word has a secular as well as Christian use.)  It appears obvious that GG fails the test that states, "can a fountain produce both bitter and sweet water?"  To teach the love of God (orthodox teaching) and then cruelly abuse His children is not seen by God as receiving a 50 % grade level.  God looks at these things as a whole.
                                   God Bless,  Mark
 

[sfortescue]

One of the most difficult things for us in trying to understand GG's teaching is in comprehending the subtleties and contradictions in his confused ramblings.

While the false doctrines purveyed by Geftakys and his disciples were subtle, this did not lessen their insidiousness - witness the results!  Anyone still thinking that George Geftakys was sound in the faith and that the failure of the assemblies was only in matters of practice does not understand the nature of deception...

I wonder whether George's confusing form of expression is intended to be interpreted differently by different people.  Some people would only hear teachings that are pretty close to right, while old-timers would understand something completely different -- legalistic and enslaving.  (Kind of analogous to those trick pictures which are optical illusions in which two different things can be seen depending on how you look at it.)  Also added into the stew are specific coded messages aimed at certain individuals who would be the only ones who would understand them.