So WHO Is Decieved???

[MGov]

Verne,

Teenagers are young adults, not little kids.  Your kids must be younger.  I agree with Pat(Re: Robinson kids).  I suggest that you don't fight, but humor them and win them with kindness.  You tend to get adamant(sound familiar).
I should know about teens as I tease mine that I ought to be awarded an honorary lawyer's degree.

a sister in the Lord

[Mark C.]

Dear Affirming: (Sondra)
  I have tried to patiently understand your position and to discuss the problems I have with your understanding of salvation and the Christian life, but your last couple of posts have contained serious error that must be directly answered.
  I realize that you have been sick, and possibly the medication is causing your communication to be confused, but I fear lest someone reading here may fall victim to very false and dangerous ideas that you have presented.
  I think the best way to proceed would be to ask you what do you believe the Gospel is?  Your latest rendition of the Christian life sounds more like the I Ching, or the Tibetan book of the Dead than Christian!  We do not earn the presence of God through controlling our negative emotions by means of meditation and prayer.  This kind of mystical religious performance theology is contra grace and contra Gospel!  You might as well join a Budhist monastery and start your prayer wheels rolling as pursue this false path that you purport.
   I strive to be civil in my posts, but such blatant false teaching must be clearly exposed and rejected.  There is a special danger because there are many ex-assembly folks here who were brought up in a false understanding of the Christian life and who need to clearly understand what it means to walk in grace.
  The Christian life continues as it began; it is a gift based relationship, not a performance based relationship.  The false merit system can take many different forms and Sondra has presented one such form.  The concept that we must transform our own inner reality in order to earn and keep God's Spirit is to be utterly rejected!  Paul asked the Galatians, "After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?"  This human effort can be by exterior effort or by an interior effort, but both are serious departures from true life in Christ.
  What of rewards Mark?  Are you saying that I can just do whatever I want now?  Am I to passively allow sin to take over in my life?  These were also the concerns of those who opposed the grace of God in truth in Paul's time and it shows a lack of appreciation for what we have right now in our salvation.
   "Sanctification comes from just taking our justification seriously".  In my opinion, the best way to approach understanding the issue of rewards is to understand what it means that I have been saved by grace.
   What does the Bible teach re. what a believer has the very instant they are born again?  Forgiveness of sins (past, present, future), justification (not only forgiven, but just as if I never sinned), sanctification, free access to the presence of God (remember by God's gift, not my feelings), God's presence in my life(He will never forsake you), His friendship, His love, eternal life, Heaven, an inheritance reserved for us, Sonship, the promises of God, etc.
   Now I belong to Jesus, Jesus belongs to me, not for the years of time alone, but for eternity!
    This blessed immutable promise of God is based entirely in the finished work of Christ and is received in it's totality at the new birth!
   When we understand the greatness of the mighty working of God in us through his gift of salvation there is a powerful renewal and fruit in our lives.  Merit relationship to God also produces a fruit; Paul called it a cursed life.  Reward will come to the life that abides in the truth of the grace of God, and those that do not will produce hay, wood, and stubble.
    I realize this post was rather strident, but I felt compelled to offer it for your consideration.  
                                      God Bless,  Mark
   

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Verne,

First of all, you have never met me.  You are older than me, and for that I respect you.  I do not respect the words coming out of your mouth, but I respect you as an adult and your right to say whatever pleases you.  But again, back to my first point.  You do not know me.  Maybe some day, we will cross paths but until then leave your poor judgements at the door.  Our dear sister Pat has met me.  She has known me for much of my life.  I am good friends with her and her sons.  Therefore, seeing that she knows me, she can say what she is saying from experience and knowledge.  You, unfortunately cannot.

Your “soiled diaper” analogy was quite humorous.  I applaud you.  And I am sure my brother will later.  But I blew it off in a way.  You couldn’t take that.  

Quote #1:
“Clearly they take umbrage at this because their father, Jerry Robinson was one of these men.”

Clearly, you don’t have any idea what you are talking about.  Don’t take it personal.

Quote #2:
“After their pathetic objections to this position had been overcome with unassailable arguments to the contrary, they then assayed to wage a verbal campaign against any an all who demurred from their point of view.”

The only person that finds Paul’s and my objections pathetic is you.  Write a book.  I’ll be sure to buy it.  
A verbal campaign.  Nicely done.  I never thought of it in that form.  It’s wrong none the less.  An apology would suffice.  You see, a campaign with two people against a dozen would be quite futile.  My point here is not to start a verbal campaign.  Check your assumed premises.  Your verbal assaults of people like Sondra are not cute.  Apologize to her while you’re at it.  You need to get control of yourself.  By the way, this is the same thing I said to Brent.  Maybe you could reread it.  Your campaign involves sticking in ever so often a biting remark and back stabbing those that you disagree with.  Your variety of the English language is all very nice, but it doesn’t seem to get your point across any faster.  I “demur” to that.

Quote #3:
“Brent and I seemed to be particulary favorite targets.”
 
Favorite targets?  Riiiight.  Your victimizing of yourself is very gratifying.  It won’t fly, though.  People have read your posts.  You are not a target.  But an enemy of others here on the forum.  You cut people either here in the public or in private.  Either way, your games are coming to a close, and no one is frightened anymore.  You also need help on your intimidation skills.  The “soiled diapers” one is over.  And then, you tried to get everyone to ignore me.  It was all a nice charade.  But this maturity that you love to gloat about, is undermined by your juvenile jokes and statements.  An apology would be nice.  You try to step on people, but let me give you a hint.  Buy some bigger shoes.

Quote #4:
“You have seen the posts.  They have not engaged in debate but rather in defamation.”

Those posts that you are lying about will deface that statement of yours.  Good try any ways.

Quote #5:
“The invectives and insults have been coming non-stop.”

HEY!!  WHAT DO YOU KNOW!!  Just found another Hypocrisy Award.  I award that to you, dear Verne.  For your victimizing of yourself when you have been the chief perpetrator of this.  Here’s a tour down Memory Lane.  Two words.  “Soiled.”  “Diapers.”  Sorry, no time for a speech.  The music is playing.

Quote #6:
“Look at the temerity to accuse me of abuse in view of the kind of language they have been employing on this BB ad nauseam.”

The gall to say that noble Verne abuses people!!  Do you even know what abuse means?  It means wronging someone.  You have.  You don’t know me.  Remember?  You are not an innocent victim.  So please stop trying to be one.

Quote #7:
“With respect to your objection to my dragging their parents into this, I must say that I have restrained myself previously out of regard for Jerry and Tina whom I knew well.”

No you haven’t.  The only thing is, you’re running out of weapons.  The “bigotry” statement didn’t fly.  The “public spanking” never happened.  The big words aren’t working.  And now, the “soiled diaper” trick
fell flat on its face.  Yes, you’ve restraining yourself.  We would all hate to make you angry.  Please stop flattering yourself.  Bringing my parents in to this only reveals your motives.  But maybe you have an ace up your sleeve.  But then again, you’re not a gambling man.  Well, you sure know how to bluff.

Quote #8:
“The directive to elders to maintain control of their children does not so far as I know have an expiration date.”

Your kids will let you know.  Does your iron fist just affect the web site???

Quote #9:
“You might find it useful to converse with former members of the St Louis assembly regarding these two.”

Have YOU???  Who have you talked to?  Are you going around my back?  Doing a little history digging?  What have they said?  “Well, Luke has always been a rebel with a chip on his shoulder.  He used to set kittens on fire, threw rocks at windows, spit on old people.”  Or are you bluffing?  Also, apologize to Pat for trying to convince her to follow your same path.  She knows me.  

Quote #10:
“These boys are the children of spiritual leaders but it has to be obvious to any casual observer that they have never been subject to anything or anyone.”

Any casual observer?  Correction:  Just to you, Sir.  I invite you to visit St. Louis.  Talk to anyone who knows me.  See what they have to say.  I have never been subject to anything or anyone?  Stop.  Right now.  You don’t know me.  To any casual observer, you’ve been a sad display of maturity here and somehow you are trying to redeem yourself.  But then again, your bluffing is not working.  Your eyes are blinking too fast.  Maybe too much caffeine.  Long nights planning out your attack on the Robinson boys, perhaps???
Please apologize, sir, for assuming too much.

Quote #11:
“I am sure you have heard of their conduct on other venues beside this BB.”

What other venues?  I’d love to hear.  This is going to be good.  Or you could be bluffing and for that you will be asked to apologize to the group for jumping to conclusions.  You are biting off more than you can chew.  Don’t take it personal.

Quote #12:
“Their merciless and disrespectful harangue of Brent was for me the last straw.”

This is the world’s tiniest violin…  Please reread what Brent said to Sondra.  And then reread what YOU wrote to Sondra.  And then, apologize for trying to victimize Brent.  You are doing him a great disservice.  It was the last straw??  So that is when you decided to bring out the big guns?  The ones labeled “soiled diapers?”  Well, what can I say.  I am undone.

Quote #13:
“I felt a public spanking was in order since clearly none had been administered at home (sorry).”

Please apologize for assuming too much.  You are getting yourself covered in mud and it does not look pretty.  Your “public spanking” fell flat on its face.  Remember???  By the way, Mr. Carty, I can’t recall you moving into our home and watching what took place.  But maybe you can call up some people and find out.  Good luck.

Quote #14:
“My only concern with putting a leash on these whelps is that it runs the risk of appearing to be striving, which a servant of God must of course not do.

Please apologize for calling me a “whelp”.  You are contradicting yourself by insulting others.  Stop.  
Are you actually saying that putting a leash on me is doing the will of God? You need to control me?  I guess you haven’t gone far from Geftakys ways.  Or am I bluffing??

Quote #15:
“The ease with which this task is accomplished though in my view clearly should relieve all of concern in this regard.”

Stop flattering yourself.  You are trying to hard and are just getting more and more desperate.  Go read your Bible.

Quote #16:
“They need to be taught some manners.”

By you???  Let me guess.  First Lesson: How to Stab Someone in the Back With Style, Grace, Poise, and A Powerful Grasp of the English Language.  Maybe we can be students in the same class.  Or have you already graduated?  Or are you trying to imply that this is Obedience School where you are the noble teacher and I am the faltering canine?  


Stop, Verne.  Just stop.  You assume too much, you think of yourself too highly, and you attack people way too much.  Your maturity is lacking.  Did you get the joke in my last post?  God forbid that you take it to heart.  You are being a major hypocrite and you cannot victimize yourself any longer.  You are already waste deep in mud and it will take a miracle to get you out.  But God can do it.


VerneCartyfa---Riiiiiight

[4Him]

Consequently, while some, such as Bluejay, David M., Eulaha, etc. undoubtedly have legitimate gripes, I think it's far more profitable to "harp" on issues involving perspective toward God and His Word than issues of the evil of men.  It is that area where the real damage has occurred and where healing needs to take place.

It seems to me that it took the shock of the personal sins of the Geftakys family-esp. George-to awaken many to the other problems such as the doctrine, etc.
 Real damage HAS occurred at the psychological level and healing DOES need to take place there. I don't think that it is either/or but both and. Perhaps Mr. Souther cd. expand on it a little as he has time.

You are absolutely correct.  In fact, it was the shock of the Geftakys family antics that God used to awaken me to my real need to break free.

I also agree that many have suffered real psycological damage.  But harping on how "I was wronged" should begin to fade.  The aim in my life should be to be to live in the "liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free".  First, we must break free of the need to complain about things/people over which we have no control.  (That is not to say we don't urgently warn others who need to be warned about them and who are receptive to that warning.)

More important, though is our view of God and His grace and our spiritual standing.  To me this is much more important.  For that reason I pay much more attention to those posts that address these issues.  I believe this spiritual problem is the area where the deepest and most subtle damage has been done to the greatest number of us.  After all, the ultimate aim of this board is to draw us to God in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ultimately, of course, both of these problems, psycological and spiritual, will be solved by person on person attention apart from this board.  This would be through counseling and sound biblical teaching.  Each of us therefore needs to take the appropriate measures to obtain healing in our lives.

[Luke Robinson]

...pray for me will you...?

I will pray for you.  Pray that you will stop being hypocritical and being the enemy of God's people here.

p.s. I would not even address George the way they have spoken to some here...

Why not?  You've spoken bad to everyone who disagreed with you.  What's one more?  

[Mark C.]

Dear Luke!
  You can't possibly remember, but there are probably those here who do, a TV show called, "lost in Space".  The family was called Robinson (after swiss family Robinson) and they were marooned on a unknown planet, with no way to get back to Earth.
   There was this robot that would always run around with the young boy, named Will Robinson, and announce, "Danger, Danger Will Robinson", as he blundered off into some dangerous situation.
   I go into this long introduction because I have thought of that old TV show in regard to some of your posts
               DANGER, DANGER LUKE ROBINSON!!  
  Verne is an honorable and able defender of the Gospel against those who would seek to pervert it.  I don't suggest that you are trying to pervert the Gospel, but possibly not open to receiving instruction that could be helpful to you.
    I think we should all be careful, as we banter back and forth, that the purpose of this website is to truly discover God's will through the Scripture.  The site was established as a means to ascertain the message in the knocking of Jesus at the door of the Assembly.  Clearly, judgment has come, and that is a good thing, because it means God is trying to speak to and bless those who were out of the way.
  It is not a time to defend a system that was weighed and found wanting, but to purchase the gold tried in the fire and the eye salve from our Lord.  This means an opportunity to see things in a new way.  Humility is the best course of action, as well as a teachable spirit.
    Let us seek to advance the cause of Christ in one anothers lives.          God Bless,  Mark
 

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Mark,

Have you been reading anything of what Verne has been saying or am I just talking to myself?  He is a defender of the gospel?  No, he is a defender of himself.  He is honorable?  Please reread what he said to me, Paul, affirming and others.  You have the wrong idea about Verne.

But then again, he could really be a nice man.  Under that tough, hypocritical exterior.

Mark, we must be talking about two different Vernes.  I know that if you reread what Verne has said, you really would not say that.  Have you been reading how he is trying to attack my parents?

Did Verne write you personally to defend him or something?  You would not be saying that if you knew.

Again, I respect you alot Mark, for your graciousness and your kindness in presenting your point.  But we are talking about two different Vernes.  Maybe we can compare notes.

By the way, Verne, thanks for letting me know that my prayers would be futile and sinful.  

[Luke Robinson]

Stop, Verne.  Stop.  Verne, stop.  The mission has been called off.

[Mark C.]

Dear Luke,
  I have tried to keep up as best I can and think I understand why Verne is so concerned re. yours and affirming's posts.
  Hypocritical?  How so?
  Verne is concerned, as I am, that dangerous concepts are not being clearly discerned and in some cases taught.  I will leave it to you guys to deal with any personality conflict that might be involved.  I am a Global Moderator , but have my limitations.
  I have my own way of trying to discuss these things and calling people names is not profitable in my opinion.  I'm not trying to defend Verne (he doesn't need my defense), but to ask you to consider his concern in his discussion with you.  My concern is that we miss the opportunity to learn from our discussion.
  I am not saying we have to only engage in bland, and passionless talk, but such without edifying speech, seasoned with grace, can be strange fire.
                God bless and Good night!   Mark

[Luke Robinson]

So now Verne is just concerned.  Now I've heard it all.

[Lurker]

So far

Affirming has said a bunch of stuff that is really hard to understand.  I guess her main point is that if we were all more spiritual, everything would be great, and we could forgive George?

Honestly, this sounds like too much medication to me.

Robinson has said nothing of substance, but is great at calling people names.  No one is more sarcastic or rude in their posting, except John Malone, but Luke is even more irritating than he.

Mark Campbell is always level headed, and always has something good to say, but no one pays any attention.

I don't know what's up with Brent, but Robinson and Affirming jumped all over him, and he apologized, which is something Robinson has never done, and probably never could, and no one pays any attention.

I think you have all gone crazy.

I am a lurker, but if I was the Moderator, I would ban Robinson, and try to reason with Affirming.  Most of the regulars are gone, becuase of Robinson, I suspect.

Same thing happened when Malone was here.  The more he posted, the faster people stayed off the site.

I think these guys are doing it on pupose.

Again,  I am one of the luking guests.  It seems to me that there are several reasons why your guy's old church was so messed up, the main one being that you are all some really whacked out people.  

If I could have my fantasy come true, it would be to have Verne Carty kick the crap out of Luke Robinson.  Something tells me that Luke really needs this.  I really wish he mouthed off somewhere and just got his teeth knocked out by some patient guy who just has enough.  Again, Luke,  you are living proof that you grew up in a cult, with your parents part of the lordship.

Affirming, you seem a little more civil, but you shouldn't dodge questions so much, it makes it look like you don't have anything more to say than about mystical spirituality and how you used to be bad, but now you are more spiritual.  whatever.

Luke Robinson telling people they are hypocrits?  Riiiight.

Luke Robinson getting mad when someone is irritated with his loutish behaviour?  Riiight

Luke, I think you need to go live with George.  He has some room now, you could really learn a lot.

Just a Lurker

[Matt]

Robinson has said nothing of substance, but is great at calling people names.  No one is more sarcastic or rude in their posting, except John Malone, but Luke is even more irritating than he.

haha, what you call "irritating," I call hiliarious.

[Lurker]

haha, what you call "irritating," I call hiliarious.

Gee,

Let me guess, you are in an assembly too?  I visit this site to learn, and to find out a few things.  Malone, Luke, and some others that I don't remember are funny, in small doses.  But shoot,  they get mean, and just go off!  Nothing is ever resolve, and then they just go and do the same thing again, with someone else.

Matt, are from Luke's assembly?

perhaps I'm not lurking as much.  I'll see how it is.

Lurker

[Heide]

Hi Sondra,

It is nice to finally know your name. In answer to your questions. No, I cannot make David, George or Tim repent! BUT I can tell everyone I run into about them and hopefully keep them away from any of the assemblies still in progress. That is my goal.

You say George got too big for his britches, is that from living off the sheep for so long? The problem with you and I is that we are not on the same page about George. I call George a sinner who needs to repent and you won't take a stand. I believe the elders from Fullerton, who dismissed George out of his own church for sin. I think they have a better grasp as to what happened than I BUT they still excommunicated him due to his sin. This is very serious.

My story of how I was treated and banished from the SLO assembly is pretty much over unless it can be used to help someone from getting involved with the assembly or opening someones eyes to get out. That side of me is done. The line of this post is "Who is Deceived" it is not "A Place of Healing" or "How to use scriptures to get your lovey dovey point across." There is no lovey dovey when we are discussing sin, it is simple and straightforward. I won't sugarcoat the topic. It is an ugly one. Sin running rampant in the camp.

I'm glad you were there when Rachel was born. I was there for Rachel's wedding when they wouldn't allow her to wear white. I was there when David preached at her wedding about the prostitute, which was horrifying. I was there when they took a beautiful moment and tried to turn it into something assembly. I was there when Daniel was born and they told everyone not to go to the hospital to visit. I was there for all of this "godly" behavior sent down by George.

Money, sex and power. Those are the three things that Billy Graham said will take down a ministry. It certainly was evident with George.

Sondra, you also said something of interest to me. "Since you are a sinner, you don't find it hard to believe that a man (George) could fall into sin". Weren't we taught to confess and repent? Is George above that??

Heide

P.S. Verne and MarkC, please don't stop posting. You guys hit the nail on the head everytime!

[affirming]

it is impossible to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and at the same time eat from the tree of life.  the former touches death, the latter touches life.

 
2 Cor 3:6   Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.  (KJV)

1 Cor 13:4-7
4   Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5   Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6   Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7   Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.  (KJV)

verne, i don't care how you try to justify it - you're wrong in spirit.  you will find many to agree with you and pat you on the back.  but your fountain is pouring out dirty water my brother.  

the scriptures say alot less about straightening out a fool than the idea of love your enemies and curse not.  

i'm just waiting for the scripture reference to appear about the godly man being able to dispute the gainsayer and all of that.  

you are right about some of the things you say, but because of the spirit in which you say them, (not in love), you negate the message.  sometimes you are very sweet, but often you go off - this is sort of "bipolar" behavior.  i don't say this to hurt you or bring you down...but there is some serious flip/flopping going on around here.  you say you are going to take some time to rest and get caught up.  several times you have retired, but it's almost like you can't stop yourself....you need to respectfully....get some new perspective because i think you are operating below yourself.