Why Luke Robinson May Become a Future Assembly Leader

[MGov]

I'd add one more thing; in spite of 'the assembly' system there were those who loved the Lord and showed that love to people like Matt and others, hence Matt has not experienced the 'corruption' that others have experienced.

M

[Lurker]

I'd add one more thing; in spite of 'the assembly' system there were those who loved the Lord and showed that love to people like Matt and others, hence Matt has not experienced the 'corruption' that others have experienced.

M

Yes, absolutely

Thanks for clarifying this.  Most of the people were sincere, dear people, with the exception of a few leaders.  It's like this in every group like the Assembly.  My criticism is directed towards the system, not the sheep.

thank you for your insight

[Matt]

I'd add one more thing; in spite of 'the assembly' system there were those who loved the Lord and showed that love to people like Matt and others, hence Matt has not experienced the 'corruption' that others have experienced.

M

Hi MGov,
Thank you for this post. I feel the need to clarify a bit of this to fully explain it. I do not deny that I have never been wronged in the assembly. I've sent emails to Brent Tr0ckman and Kim Tobin to explain the few ways I've been wronged. However, I find it is more fruitful to reflect on the positive aspects of the assembly rather than just the negative. Is there anyone here that can deny that they've experienced anything positive in the assembly? There have been a lot of posts about individual wrong doings, so let me give 3 examples about individual positive/encouraging things:
1. I remember that at my first campus conference, I had terrible nightmares the first night in the cabin. I was resolved not to go to any of the lectures the next morning, but, of course, that was difficult to get away with. I did end up going to the first one that morning, but I freaked out in the middle and walked out of the chapel where the lectures were and started on the trail back to the cabins. A canadian brother, Will Plowman, from the Calgary assembly followed me out and we talked for two hours. He did not talk to me about my involvement in the assembly. He did not rebuke me for walking out. Instead, he prayed with me and I told him everything on my mind for an hour or so.
2. Once at lunch outside the hotel where our Sunday meetings were, I got in a shouting match with a brother and then I felt like everyone was against me (paranoia to the max). While everyone else went out for outreach, I stayed behind with the leading bro, Bob Starr, and he prayed with me and calmed me down. I can still remember how concerned he was and his offer to help me in any way he could. Such a gentle man: "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient" 2 Ti 2:24
"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger" Prov 15:1
Such a Godly man. Thank you, Lord, for bringing Bob Starr into my life.
3. Once, about 2.5 yrs ago Briant Gibb and I were witnessing at the Mira Mesa mall on Sunday afternoon and we came across these brothers who were about 10 and 8 (I still remember their names, James and Jason..and I can't even remember people I meet last week). They were so interested in what we had to say and they very readily prayed with us and accepted Jesus. I was so happy, praise God! I still think about that incident periodically. Everyone at the assembly was happy to hear about it too during prayer and it did not matter that these boys didn't come with us back to the meeting (that would be kidnapping).

These things might seem insignificant, and you might say, so what? I'm only pointing these out to show that the assembly is/was not an entirely evil place. If anyone else has positive memories of the assembly, I'd like to hear them too.
Lord bless,
Matt.

[Lurker]

Once, about 2.5 yrs ago Briant Gibb and I were witnessing at the Mira Mesa mall on Sunday afternoon and we came across these brothers who were about 10 and 8 (I still remember their names, James and Jason..and I can't even remember people I meet last week). They were so interested in what we had to say and they very readily prayed with us and accepted Jesus. I was so happy, praise God! I still think about that incident periodically. Everyone at the assembly was happy to hear about it too during prayer and it did not matter that these boys didn't come with us back to the meeting (that would be kidnapping).

while I can't relate anything positive about the Assembly, I will say that I agree with you that leading 2 children to Christ is a wonderful experience.

Without taking away the obvious blessing of being used by God, and the fact that His soverign grace drew these two young boys into a saving faith in Christ, I would like to pose a few questions regarding our "new" topic, whether the Assembly was a good place, and if so, how good.  (something like that I guess)

1.)  These kids were saved at a mall.  Do we conclude that the mall is a "good place?"

2.)  These kids were NOT saved in an Assembly meeting, and never attended one.  Can their salvation be linked in any way to the Assembly, or is it simply the result of God using His people to reach the lost?

3.) Is it not more likely that God will continue to use a person AFTER they have left the Assembly?  Consider how other churches grow and prosper and contrast that with the apparent rejection, by God Himself, of the Assembly and its "ministry."

Lurker

aren't civil discussions so much more fun?

[Eulaha L. Long]

I am NOT in favir if hatred towards God's people.  Just wanted to clarify.

[MGov]

Dear brother Matt,

Since Lurker has responded to point 3. on your most recent post here, I will respond to points 1. and 2.
The way Will Plowman and Bob Starr ministered to you in your time of need was indeed very Christlike and should have been the norm in the assembly. However, I am sorry to say, that most of us were treated as if we were the 'rich young ruler', because, by my evaluation, there is/was a lack of sensitivity to the spirit of Christ.
My heart overflows on this topic, and I cannot write it all down for you now; maybe I wll PM or email you with 'the rest of the story...'

You are right there were some positive things in the 'assembly system'.  The Word was preached, and it was the 'Word' that worked in us.  Also, to some extent there was that aspect of 'family' which you don't see in too many other gatherings.
Much love,
M

[MGov]

I'd add one more thing; in spite of 'the assembly' system there were those who loved the Lord and showed that love to people like Matt and others, hence Matt has not experienced the 'corruption' that others have experienced.
M

MGov this assertion is incomprehensible. Until recently Matt's behaviour on the BB would contradict you. I do not say this to in any way attack Matt. We have been in contact and I am encouraged by his obvious change in approach. Luker's oberservation regarding the system erected by George Geftakys is exactly on point as regards its purpose, and manifestly as regards its results. To continue to defend this system is in my opinion the height of spiritual intransigence. As Lurker pointed out, God has decisively judged it. Who are we to say otherwise?
Verne

Brother Verne,

Either I was not clear in the wording of my post, OR you did not read my post carefully.
I intentionally said 'I'll add one more thing' meaning that I was adding it to his list, meaning that I was agreeing with his list.
I intentionally said in spite of 'the assembly' system - that is self-explanatory.
And I intentionally wanted to 'make concessions' for those who have not been in the system for long enough to have experienced what us 'older' folk have been through.
Are we in agreement??

In His love,
M

[Laurie]

Hello everyone,
Eulaha, Kim, and Amy: Hi sweeties! How are you holding up? The hatred is starting to die down thankfully. I'm pleased as punch that the people that were defending the system that hurt you are starting to see the error of their ways (Luke, Matt, MGov, etc). Powerful women make males quake! I love you.

Matt and Luke:
I see that you are both coming to your senses. Matt, you still have quite a way to go. You strike me as a kid who takes the long way instead of the short. At this point, I'm ready to retract my suicide comment. I think it has scared you into realizing how people felt about you. Matt, continue on the path you've taken recently, and you may turn out a decent kid after all. Who knows?

Verne and Lurker:
Hey, keep up the good work

Love,
Laurie.

[MGov]

Brother Matt and All

Even through the 'negative' experiences (and Matt has experienced some of them) the Lord has taught me that He is sovereign, and I am not bitter in any way towards any one.  Bitterness eats away at 'my' heart, and I end up being the one who suffers the most from it (ie bitterness). Even when 'exposing' the problems I have seen, it is not with a bitter attitude, but with a desire for others to 'recognize' the issues and seek the Lord's remedy.  The Lord (in Revelation) pointed out the issues that each of the 7 churches faced, and that they need to repent, or else...

So, in a way, it is a positive thing that the sufferings I experienced worked to get God's Word real in my life.  I myself am guilty of 'being part of the system'(never as a LB(sorry wife) or worker), but not anymore.
This is my desire: "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient" 2 Ti 2:24
I must confess that I did 'strive' to look spiritual, but failed miserably.  My burden is to be 'gentle unto all... apt to teach, and patient'.

Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

M

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  A previous poster incorrectly spoke for others on the BB by suggesting that there is a hostility against Matt here that is shared by all.  I do not feel this way about Matt and we need not have an "us vs. them" mentality to have a lively debate.
  This is part of my "change of heart" in participation in this forum and was revealed to me via Luke's and Matt's humble expression here.  This does not mean that I agree with all that Luke and Matt may post, or that I believe we can't have differences of opinion, but that I shouldn't assign motives to those expressing their opinions.  Only God knows the heart and it is crossing a boundary to make such judgments.
   To place individuals together into camps such as "anti-assembly/ pro-assembly", or any other such designtions, we ignore the issues we are trying to discuss and miss the point.  Sweeping generalizations are usually an unfair representation of the facts.  If we were to generalize we would be closer to the truth by understanding that each individual situation was different.
   This does not mean that there are not general principles that we can draw from Assembly teaching/practices, but as to how each individual member experienced these things we can not judge the sincerity(or lack of sincerity) of their involvement.
 We also can not specifically judge the degree of their culpability in the abuse that went on, with certain exceptions.  The exceptions are the facts re. teaching and behavior.  These exceptions are primarily aimed at those in the position of leadership in the Assembly.  Whereas I may not know "why" GG did certain things I know he did teach/practice certain things that were wrong and thus I can make a judgment.
  To designate an individual poster as being in a particular camp and then to identify them as being guilty by association is an attempt to assainate the character of the poster and to silence their opinion.  This is not a means of pursuing convincing argument, but an attempt to bully others on the BB via intimidation.
   One thing I learned from my Assembly experience is that I will not allow others to bully me any more, nor to tell me how to think and feel.  There is a natural reaction to those who have been subjected to the above abuse to react strongly against those who cross the boundary of my relationship with Christ by attacking one's personal worth.    
  It is not a lack of humility or bitterness that fights for the integrity of the bounds of my personal freedom and value in Christ, but the strong determination to insist that I'm never violated again by spiritual abuse.
                                     God Bless,  Mark