Why Luke Robinson May Become a Future Assembly Leader

[Mark C.]

Hi Eulaha and Others!
  Eulaha:  The topic kind of got altered from your original humorous title due to some private responses I received re. "taking sides",  and the issue of allowing angry reactions on the BB toward the former Assembly leaders.
  I hope you don't mind my using the opportunity to think about these things.
                   GRACE THAT WORKS Cont.
   In my previous post I was trying to explain my thinking regarding the process of recovery from a merit based relationship with God vs. a gift based relationship, by discussing how grace works in the day to day experience of the believer.  It is always God's grace that works effectually in us, and there is no way to earn the release of God's grace in our life.  There are no tricky-inner-doings to trigger or actualize the power of God in the soul.  Grace for the Christian is not the reward of God for our faithfulness, rather it is the answer to our great lack of godliness.
   There are ways to block the release of God's grace in the Christians life.  Paul tells the Galatians that to mix a merit system with Grace will cause the removal of grace in the life and put the believer under a curse; not loss of salvation, but the misery of living under a standard of performance.
   The Assembly added the above performance teaching to a false use of authority over the individual member.  The standard of performance was raised from, just living up to a Biblical moral code, to extrabiblical rules established by GG.  Most of these involved "attitudnal sins" that scrutinized the motives of the member, which was chiefly concerned with loyalty to GG and his ministry.
   Those who challenged the false use of authority were told their concerns were invalid because they had wrong motives for sharing them.  One brother who just wanted to go to another Church was told the reason he wanted to go was, "you just want to be a star in another ministry".  
   I personally was intimidated for years by this method and accepted the concept of self loathing as a true sign of spirituality.
    Grace seeks to "build up" a person, while the Assembly abuse system sought to control and tear down the individual.  In the Assembly we were always reminded to be nothing for Christ, however GG and his cohorts were always somebody.  Dear wounded pilgrim, God always loved you and you are very special to Him!  
   It is important to recognize these facts, but also important to understand how to make a transition from the old system of abuse into a life of grace, and for us on the BB, how to help those learn their blessed place in Christ.
  This finally brings us to the original topic of how to help one who is struggling with anger, bitterness, and maybe some deep hatred of their former abuser.
   When we tell an individual who is overcome with negative emotions to stop talking about their pain, or that their expression is not appropriate, we are giving the same advice that the abused received from their former manipulators.  Of course, such advice only gives more pain.  To tell the individual, "look to Christ" and your pain will vanish, or "only by forgiving your abuser will you discover release from your negative emotions", puts the person back in the position of trying to manage his soul to earn grace.
   We do indeed need to experience the healing of Christ, but it will involve real wounds, understanding what was hurt, and what needs to be recovered.
   What was damaged was the soul's confidence in God's unconditional love for them as a person.  The most precious possession of a believer was taken away because we were told that we were not worthy of it.  We were told that we were too defective to have God's love and must overcome in order to earn God's acceptance of our person.  When we looked within we knew it was all so true!  How could God love me?!  "Oh, to be like GG and other great servants of God where I could finally merit God's blessing" we would cry!
  In the next post: more about recovering our personal dignity through understanding that the Assembly was very wrong and that the victim of Assembly abuse has a right to be upset about what was taken from them.  (Hint: it will be about anger )          God Bless,  Mark  

[Mark C.]

                    HOW GRACE WORKS Continued.

   I would like to continue my explanation of how grace works in the process of recovery from the Assembly by using a personal example.  In the example I hope to explain how we go through an emotional transition from being dependant on the group/controlling leaders to personal autonomy in Christ.
  When I first left it was because I sought to make a decision re. where I lived without submitting to "counsel".  I was "relieved" of my duties as a leading Bro. for just considering a move without approval.
  At the time, I never would have even considered making an independent decision, but lately God had been showing me that there were contradictions between God and Assembly teaching and practices.  These revelations were an eye opener, but I still held a great fear of independent action from the group approval.  I had great misgivings about leaving and suffered from nightmares and great anxiety over my decision for months after leaving.
   What if it was true that I left God's one true testimony and was destined for outer darkness?!  Maybe I was just making excuses to do my own thing, as was suggested by Assembly leaders?  Or worse yet, maybe I was, as I was also told by Assembly members, a divisive and devilish man who was seeking to divide God's flock?!!  As GG always taught, "it's what you think God is saying that He is really trying to say!"
   I used to have a recurring dream that I was in a gathering with GG and all the leading bros. from the West Coast.  I was in the center and all of them surrounded me while they asked me why I left.  I would wake up in terror and anxiety feeling that I had made a terrible mistake in leaving .
   The last occasion of the dream followed some study that I had been doing regarding false Assembly teaching on grace.  The same bros. appeared around me in a circle that night, and as I began to answer them with what I was learning they all grew silent and cast their eyes down.  I then began to get angry with them and to turn the tables on them by insisiting they answer me why they had offended me so.  As I did so they all disappeared one by one and I never had the dream again.
   Recovery of confidence came to me when I was able to shake off the nagging self doubts re. why I left.  When one has habitually submitted to abusive control the shackles of slavery still are emotionally attached.  This may be true even if in my mind I know better.  
  Part of taking off the shackles is to realize that God never intended for them to be attached, and that those that attached them were wrong for doing it.  This process awakes, from the deep dark prison of my self loathing, a revived sense of " I'm mad as heck, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"---  A self assertion of personal rights as a liberated soul in Christ!  As the Jews say of the Holocaust, "never again!"
   The need to find justice in the matter, not only is it for one's own personal autonomy in Christ, but for the sake of those who did the abuse/or unwittingly still continue in the system that encouraged the abusive practices.  The false teaching and practices, if not acknowledged and repented of by the former leaders/followers, will ultimately lead to a very bad end.  Clarity is absolutely essential for spiritual health.
   To courageously stand up and face the former slave master can not be done without some passion.  As I've often shown, Jesus attacked with great emotion "The Whited Sepluchre" pharisaical leadership of the false religous system of His time.   Paul also spoke strongly against those that would bring God's people into bondage.  Paul chided those of God's people who would allow false apostles to slap their face (a metaphor for the false use of authority) and not to stand-up to them.
  What of exhortations to silently sumbit to God in abuse, with the knowledge that God will vindicate?  Should we follow the Assembly interpretation of submission given to Judy that a wife should just silently accept their beating by a Christian husband?  "Sometimes silence is golden, other times it's yellow" (Vernon Mcgee).  It would be worthwhile to understand what the Bible means by submission.  Suffice it to say, there is a big difference between not taking up the sword against Nero and the issue of submission to authority in Christian relationships.
  After this process of removing the emotional shackles by the abused asserting their individual worth in God's eyes, and the former bully is confronted for his evil behavior, the former wounded soul gains a peace and confidence.  If the bully also confesses and apologizes to the offended there can be a most blessed fruit and healing of relationship with my brother.
  The fear of this above process becoming destructive, through the unleashing of negative emotions, should not be a reason to stop the process from continuing.  Can this process short circuit and trap an exmember in a continual cycle of bitterness? Yes, sadly yes, this can happen.  Can we just skip the anger part and get on to the confidence and peace part?  Not likely, though some are more sensitive and have been more deeply hurt, and yet others seem to find their footing quickly.
  The fact that angry souls post their concerns here is proof that they are seeking answers for the pain they feel.  We can help by listening and weeping with those who have been wronged.  We can take their side and help them to see that God takes their side too; that they were wronged and that those that abused them should admit it; that God was not supportive of those who used a false authority to control their lives.
  From this we can then show them who God really is and how very concerned God is for them.  Jesus, the original Wounded Pilgrim, has a very special place in His heart for those abused in a false religous system.  God does not consider the abused one's pain a small matter, nor does He expect us to "just get over it", or put a sunny-side spin on it.
  True comfort, and the resolution of angry emotion, comes when we realize that Jesus understands and takes our side re. our former abuse.  He is not telling us our emotions are unjustified,  that we can't express them, or that he doesn't share in the indignation of a false religous system.  Through that consolation we begin to express His same love for those trapped in the system, whether abuser or abused.  The evil side of anger is replaced with a righteous determination for clarity in the lives of all those effected in the Assembly.
                             God Bless,  Mark
     

[jackhutchinson]

  As GG always taught, "it's what you think God is saying that He is really trying to say!"
 
Aha!  Now I know why GG said that.  He was saying that whatever coded message he was hinting at (but was too smart and cowardly to say outright) was what we were supposed to accept as God's will.

How disgusting!

How great to be free from tyranny!  The statue has fallen!

Jack

[BeckyW]

Mark-
These posts on grace are just what I needed to read today.  

Jack-
I had the same thoughts about the statue falling-

Everyone else,
Keep writing.  Communication is a good thing.

Saved! by grace,
Becky

[MGov]

GG often said that he never listened to anything negative about the brethren (especially the LBs); and to believe the best.  I guess it conveniently closed the door on anyone saying anything negative about himself too.  We were made to feel that we were 'gossipping' if we did say anything negative.

M

[Mark C.]

Hi M and Others ,
  Yes, the topic of grace probably would be better placed elsewhere, but it kind of just happened as I tried to explain my postion on angry posters, etc..
  Luke has a good heart and I think he has joined in with the joke, as he mentioned his change of career choice to bait shop owner; doesn't sound bad to me--- paid to fish?!
   Thanks for all those encouraging messages re. keeping up with the posting.  I don't think most of us realize what a good thing we have in this BB.  Thanks to Brian for making it available, and for giving us an opportunity to discuss these things.
   Everyone have a glorious remembrance of the ressurection of our Lord Jesus Christ!  By his grace we have been raised in Him!
                             What a blessing!   Mark

[Eulaha L. Long]

In response to Matt's post:

I am not a bully!  Neither do I care what Paul's response was to my original post.  I am not responsible for people's reactions.  Let's take some personal responsibilities for our responses and actions.

I do not feel like I owe anyone an apology.  If you can not take a joke, then that's YOUR problem.

Luke has said a lot of negative things about me, and has never apologized.  Why aren't you entreating him to ask for forgiveness?  Huh?  Stop making Luke the victim people!

[MGov]

In response to Matt's post:

I am not a bully!  Neither do I care what Paul's response was to my original post.  I am not responsible for people's reactions.  Let's take some personal responsibilities for our responses and actions.

I do not feel like I owe anyone an apology.  If you can not take a joke, then that's YOUR problem.

Luke has said a lot of negative things about me, and has never apologized.  Why aren't you entreating him to ask for forgiveness?  Huh?  Stop making Luke the victim people!

Dear Sister Eulaha, Brothers Luke and Paul,

Here is an opportunity to continue this animosity, or to become friends.  The Lord has broken down the barriers that keep us from being reconciled to Himself and to each other.
You're right, sometimes we can't take jokes.  But when we realize that we have offended the other person, we can still ask for forgiveness.  And those of us who can't take jokes may have to lighten up.

Humility is the way to go, here.

M

[al Hartman]

Oops-- Looks like you forgot to directly address Matt, MGov.

...and he apparently doesn't pick up on mere suggestion.

Oh, well, if at first you don't succeed...

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Everyone,

Hopefully, I can do my best to bring some resolution to this confusion.

Dear Eulaha,

First of all, I did not think that all of this was a joke, neither did anyone else.  I doubt that it is one now, but that is just my opinion.  Maybe two of these:  , and three of these:   would have cleared it up.  But I can't quite bring myself to believe that this was all a joke.  

You said that you are not responsible for others reactions for what you are saying.  Well, is George?  If what you are saying is true, then each person is responsible for how they receive another's message.  So basically, George is not responsible for anything he taught.

You are telling everyone that taking your posts seriously is THEIR problem.  Many people have stood for you, Eulaha, either in private messaging or public.  They sympathize with you, and know that you have gone through a lot.  I am just going to tell you this.  Many are looking out for you here.  They haven't just said,"That's just Eulala's problem, let her deal with it", but they have tried to talk.  

I agree that you are not a bully.  But it is kind of strange that you can dish out comments, but then when Matt dishes it back, he has no one to go to bat for him, while you do.

I am not exactly sure about where I have hurt you, but I would like to talk privately with you, about what I have done.  I would like to see some resolution between all of us.

Dear MGov,

I totally agree with you.  I did not know that there was any animosity between us, but I plan to clear it up.  Thanks again.


In Closing,

We have all been part of this assembly.  We have all been hurt in some way by all that has been transpired.  But in light of all of this, I am asking us all to do something.  Let us lay the assumptions aside, all the fears, the suspecting the worse of everyone else, the indifference, the fighting.  I have been a purpretrator of all of these things, but I suggest that we get things right with each other.

I AM NOT GOING TO BE THE NEXT ASSEMBLY LEADER, FOLKS.
     I don't think that this started out as a joke, but everytime I need a good laugh, either I go rent a Comedy, or I read this thread.    IT IS HILARIOUS.  I am just going on with life, folks.  I like long walks on the beach and a good book on a rainy day.  Just kidding.  The nearest beach to me is probably 500 miles.  

Matt is right.  No one has ever tried to make me a victim, and I will not except it, even if anyone succeeded in doing so.  I have been hurt before, by tall people, short people, fat people, skinny people, dark people, light people, and everything else under the sun.  But I am not making the clear distinction that it was the assembly.  I AM SAYING THAT PEOPLE IN GENERAL, HURT OTHER PEOPLE.  It is just part of the fall.  But as we walk by grace, we no longer have to do it.  I have enjoyed my time here, immensely.  God Bless.

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson

[Mark C.]

Dear Luke
  Your last post shows a maturity beyond your years and is a good example to some of us old folks.
   A bad lesson that some of us picked up from our Assembly years (or elsewhere) is a lack of care with the feelings of others.  Chief among this lack of sensitivity is the judgment of others motives.  We cross a line when we tell others "why" they do what they do, or "why" they say what they say.  Only God knows our motives and only he can change them.
  Luke has shared some strong differences with those on the BB, but that is not a reason to put him down as a person.  I, as a moderator, have failed at my task by not speaking up sooner and it took Luke's post to bring me around.  The reason I failed was, as I described above, I had determined what Luke was all about.  I figured that his real motives were to support GG and verbally attack those who had problems with him.  I felt like I needed to support those who were victimized by these "attacks".
  While passionate debate over issues is important we need to be tolerant of those with other views ( I know, a very politically correct phrase these days).  We can't see a sinister plot behind the post of everyone that has a view that is counter to our understanding of the Assembly.  Now, I will contend most earnestly for the Faith, or against those that would defend GG's teaching/practices, if the occasion arises, but to ascribe motive to the poster is not right.
  I am not less sensitive to the needs of those, like Eulaha, who has suffered greatly at the hands of the Assembly, but would ask all of us to try to be more sensitive to those who do not see things the way we do.  It is certain that our arguments are more persuasive if we argue our points with politeness.
   Finally, God loves even the unrepentant Assembly abuser and would like to bring them to reconciliation with Himself.  We must be clear with those who are in the above position that they are very wrong, but our expectation should always be for their full recovery.  Would it not be wonderful if GG confessed his sin, truly repented, and came on the BB and apologized?!  I know, this may sound like a departure from my previous stance re. forgiveness of GG and anger, etc., but it really is not.  At another time and place I will explain.
   Thank you Luke for your post and your participation on the BB.  May God richly bless you and all of us,  Mark

[al Hartman]

     (part 1 of 2)


My dear Brothers and Sisters,

     Don't you just love this thread?!  Its title may be mysterious to the uninitiated, but those who read it regularly know that it may lead us almost anywhere:  It's good for some chuckles at times, and it can also be mighty edifying.

     Being grateful for Luke's, Mark's and Matt's latest contributions, i hope that i may continue in their positive direction with some personal thoughts regarding our attitudes about the motives of others.  My conclusions are far from being set in stone, but i have had over 20 years since leaving the assembly to arrive at them.
     
     As a prelude to my comments, i will ask you to read and open your heart to Psalm 139.  Take your time;  there is no rush.  When you are ready, we will continue...

     Psalm 139, verse four, says in part, "I will praise thee;  for I am fearfully and wonderfully made..."  Do you think of yourself as wonderful?  ...and what about your neighbor:  do you think of him or her as wonderful?  Well, you certainly can, because the word of God says that is how we are made.
     What is so wonderful about us?  The answer would take several books, but for this moment's purpose, let me emphasize our individuality.  There is absolutely no one on earth like you.  You are utterly unique.  Nobody else has ever, could have ever, shared your perspective on life, because no one else has your genetic makeup, your precise environment, your physical, mental and emotional history.  Even identical siblings, reared by the same parents, have innumerable differences.
     That is part of the reason it is folly to suppose that we understand the motives of another person.  Even the redeemed of the Lord, our fellow saints, are virtual strangers to us, although we may have fellowshipped together for years, and be known to have much in common.  "...for the Lord seeth not as man seeth;  for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart." I Samuel 16:7  "And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know." I Corinthians 8:2  "For we know in part... For now we see through a glass, darkly... but then shall I know even as I also am known." I Corinthians 13:9,12  
     It is vital that we remember that we see only what shows, and not the hearts of others;  that our knowledge is only partial and limited.  We DARE NOT speak for another.  But instead, we have access to the throne of grace:  that we may intercede in prayer.
     "But, brother al," you may protest, "praying isn't nearly as good a way to let off steam and feel better as criticizing and arguing."  If that's what you think, the first thing you need to pray is, "Lord, teach me to pray!"

     (continued...)

[al Hartman]

     (...continued / Part 2 of 2)


     What i have discovered about myself, which may or may not apply to you, is that when i become very upset with someone else, it is usually because something in that person's demeanor reminds me (consciously or subconsciously) of something i can't tolerate in myself.  For example, there are a couple of people who post on this board whose manner of delivery sets me on edge.  If i were to state things the way they do, i would be behaving arrogantly and pompously.  Because of my feelings, i have sometimes caused these saints some grief (for which i have since made amends).
     The reason i feel as i do is that i am not learned enough to speak with the authority that they manifest.  For me to do so would be presumptuous.  i resent that i am not as excellent a student and scholar as they-- in short, i am jealous of them.  Oddly, God does not justify my jealousy.  Well, then, i just have to confess my problem, get over it, and realize that for someone who actually HAS that degree of knowledge, their attitudes may be quite proper (how would i know?).
     First and foremost, i must determine what God expects of ME, and i find there are ample issues in my life that need resolution, that i have no need to look at others for "projects" on which to work.  Neither have i found a scriptural "commission" to go out and trouble-shoot the lives of God's people.  There is, of course, a lot we do that influences the lives of others, but if God is in it, it is generally of an upbuilding nature.

     What, then, to do when i feel that others are "attacking" me?  Well, i do what any sibling would do:  i tell my Father.  He can and will sort it out, if we will allow it.  i may feel hurt, but i don't complain as i used to.  You see, i discovered that sometimes there actually IS something in my life that needs a little attention.  i may pretend that i have it all together, but i'm not fooling God, and often everyone else sees through my facade, too.
     That last concept is scary to some people, which is why we started out with Psalm 139.  Look at it again.  See that it begins with how thoroughly the Lord knows us through and through.  There is nothing, and nowhere, we can hide from him and yet, seeing us in all our imperfection he has loved us, and continues to love us, without end.  And the Psalm concludes with a prayer to God:  Search me and know my heart:  try me and know my thoughts:  cleanse me of wickedness and lead me forevermore.
     
     This kind of message sometimes gets me an angry "Quit telling everybody what to do!" response.  But, if you'll be honest with yourself, you'll know that is not what's happening.  We speak what is in our hearts (Matthew 12:34-35, Luke 6:45).  If we are not pleased with what we find ourselves saying, our recourse is with the Lord.  If we take exception to what is being said to us, our recourse is with the Lord.
     "What shall we then say to these things?  If God be for us, who can be against us?  He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?  Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?  It is God that justifieth."
Romans 8:31-33
     We are in good hands, receiving the best of care.  Let's learn to enjoy it.

al Hartman

     

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  I was deeply moved by your post Matt and anything but bored!  I thought that I pretty much had the Assembly thing figured out and neatly packaged.  Had it not been for Luke and Matt posting here I would have continued in my convienent mode of thinking.  For this I am very grateful and recognize God's entreaty to me in it.
  I Cor. 8 talks about those that have knowledge, but are puffed up with it, and in the chapter we are warned that the priority is to love one another.  As AL shared, love lifts up our brother/sister.  Love wins (persuades) the offended soul and can be like the proverbial coals of fire on our conscience; I know it has done this work on me.  Love is everything when it comes to the excercise of our gifts toward one another; these gifts are not for ourselves. Finally, love is kind and not irritable.
  I will be on the road for the week, and will continue to think on these blessed thoughts in the hope that God will use them to further widen my perspective and change my heart.
   Again, if it were not for the posting of Luke and Matt I would have merrily continued on in my distorted view.  Both of these posts were a one-two punch to my heart.  I need to put my thoughts in perspective, and hopefully by next weekend I will be able to do that.
  Our recent conversation is solid proof that God can use these forums in a most wonderful way to help us in our understanding and expression of the Christian life.  It is also proof that those that we "think" are obstacles on that path are actually more necessary to the body of Christ.
                               God sure is blessing us!   Mark

 

[MGov]

Amen Mark.
 I was encouraged and touched (and not bored) by the recent postings of Matt, Luke, Al, and MarkC.
 I think we should chip in and buy Mark C a laptop so that he can 'globally' moderate this BB on the road?

When we all get to heaven, what a day of rejoicing that will be...

Love and God bless,
M