Why Luke Robinson May Become a Future Assembly Leader

[Matt]

MGov,
That was an excellent movie! I thought it was better than the first LOTR, but they are both excellent.

[MGov]

MGov,
That was an excellent movie! I thought it was better than the first LOTR, but they are both excellent.

They were both excellent, but I preferred the first.  We have the DVD and have watched it a number of times at home with 5.1 surround sound.  My daughter knows a lot of the lines by heart.

M

[al Hartman]

Dear Saints, Posers and Wannabes,

     One thing needs to be understood by all:  If there had only been one person lost in sin, whether it was Verne, Matt, Laurie, Eulaha, MGov, me or Adolph Hitler, Jesus Christ would have done exactly what he did TO SAVE THAT ONE LOST SOUL!  He has loved you, me and the other person equally.  God is no respecter of persons.
                                                                 (Acts 10:34)

     To devalue human life is to belittle the work of Christ.  To profess pleasure at the loss of a brother's life is a mockery of the love of God.  To attempt to justify one's personal hatred by misrepresenting it as the attitudes of the many is despicable.

Laurie,
     i have twice attempted to have a reasonable private discussion with you, and while i await a clear response from you, you continue to infest this board with your confused blather.  i am not defending Matt here-- he has chosen to speak for himself.  i am stating that, since you seem to  care about only three or four other people on this board, you might want to consider starting your own thread or website, or at least taking your conversation off the board and to email.  What you are doing here is a disgrace and may be a discouragement to some of the Lord's little ones:
     "It is impossible but that offences will come:  but woe unto him, through whom they come!  It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." Luke 17:1-2
     Verne has already stated his withdrawal from this forum, or he would no doubt also speak out against your open hatred of the Lord's redeemed souls.  Your flattery would not be sufficient to buy his support for your cynical expressions.
     And, Laurie, please don't attempt to hide behind your gender.  There are a number of people on this board who will attest that i have spoken to brothers in the same manner i am speaking to you:  You have expressed un-Christlike thoughts which need to be denounced, preferrably by you.
     You seem to have begun a new life in Christ, and i earnestly hope you can and will find your way back to Him.  The path you are presently on is not of his choosing.

     Eulaha, if you support Laurie's perspective, please reconsider.  If you are not supportive of the hatred and deathwishes, please let the saints know that

     There really is no reason for anyone to make such a generalization that ex-assembly men do not respect women.  Our mothers, sisters and daughters are women, as was the mother of our Lord.  And anyone who was there knows that Betty G. was as great an oppressor of assembly women as was any man, and moreso than most.
     The statement that the assemblies were "a system that hurt women" implies that men were better treated.  This is simply not true.  Perhaps the sexes were hurt in different ways, yes, but the injuries do not differ in intensity nor in their scarring aftermath.

     The Lord has been merciful to us all, many times over.  Please, let's not test his patience with us.  Love one another.

al Hartman

[MGov]

[Let me ask a simple question:
Why was this web site started?
The record will show, that in the face of incontrovertible evidence, scores of people passively stood by and sanctioned the most evil, Godless, destructive behaviour imaginable. Even those of us who left prior to the matters becoming public felt a great sense of shame and quilt over our association with a man like George Geftakys. How is it possible on a website devoted to chronicling the horrors of that era, could those of us who vowed to learn the bitter lesson of that time- viz the great need to stand for righteousness, allow the kind of conduct we have seen on this BB of late. The ultimate perversity is to imply that  somehow defending those unjustly and Godlessly villified is tantamount to repeating the Assembly errors! I am afraid of some of you...!
The labor of Brent Tr0ckmann has been LOST on some of you. Like Mark C, my thinking about this also has radically changed; the conclusion I draw will remain with me...
Verne

Brother,

You are right about the purpose of this BB, and if you re-read some of my earlier posts, you will see the I have stood for this very thing - exposing the error of Geftakysism - where it falls short of the Lord's standard.  I don't think you are promoting anti-assemblyism  are you?
As we walk with the Lord there should be a change of perspective - more and more heavenward.  Hence, maybe there is a need for a change in outlook if the Lord shows it to us.  Let's not hold fast to that which the LORD wants to change.  I am not for assemblyism or against assemblyism, but for truth and healing for all.

In His love,
M

[wolverine]

My six weeks aren't up so this isn't a real post...

PEOPLE, PEOPLE!!!!!  PLEASE FIND SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE!!!  THIS BICKERING IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE!!!  

Although I am glad for what the website did at first, I wish Brian would dismantle this BB...It's time is up...

Paul

[Laurie]

My six weeks aren't up so this isn't a real post...

PEOPLE, PEOPLE!!!!!  PLEASE FIND SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE!!!  THIS BICKERING IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE!!!  

Although I am glad for what the website did at first, I wish Brian would dismantle this BB...It's time is up...

Paul

This is so sad. Another male's attempt to quiet the unhappy woman. Paul, women were abused beyond belief in the assembly system. It's something that neither of us can understand firsthand (you because you're not a woman, I because I've never been to an assembly). But, I've heard accounts and this is not a time to try to sweep the mistreatment of women under the rugs to save the male's reputation. It's horrifying to see males clamoring around in alarm when they see unhappy women in protest. I imagine it's because you prefer us to keep silent in such matters? By dismantling the BB, it is true that you would help to keep us silent, but not without delivering a devastating blow to women in an effort to cover up your gender's abuse of us. I'm saying this specifically to Al Hartman, Paul, Matt, Luke, and anyone else who has criticized Eulaha or myself. We will NOT be quiet to appease the male.
Love,
Laurie

[Matt]

I'm saying this specifically to Al Hartman, Paul, Matt, Luke, and anyone else who has criticized Eulaha or myself. We will NOT be quiet to appease the male.
Love,
Laurie

Hi, Laurie,
I see my name has gotten thrown in there again. I am curious as to why you think I have been thinking about this thread in terms of gender. I have never made any comments about men or women, and I have never tried to silence Eulaha or yourself. How can I? I live in Cali, you live in Colorado, and Eulaha in NY.

I think your concern for the welfare of women is genuine, and that's good. However, I would like to clear up a misunderstanding you have regarding the "assembly system" as you said and its treatment of women. Firstly, you claim that the assembly system damaged women "beyond belief." You are making that claim based on one woman's account and perhaps anything Eulaha might have told you. There were hundreds of women in the assembly. You cannot make a judgment like that without talking to more women. It would be like me going to France and thinking that the entire country was gay because the first Frenchie I came across was gay. Do you understand that point?

Secondly, I will tell you that you can find mistreatment of women anywhere in the world. Perhaps some assemblyites have mistreated their wives, christians outside the assembly have mistreated women, jews have mistreated women, atheists have mistreated women, muslims have mistreated women. I will admit that there are times (only 2 or 3 that I can remember) where I cringed at the way a brother treated his wife (won't say names for obvious reasons). The worst I can remember is when a brother shoved his wife into the car because he wanted her to take their kids home and she was hesitating. The other brothers spoke to him about that though, and here is why: the assembly believed in the Bible. And here is what the Bible has to say about women:

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it" Eph 5:25

"So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself" Eph 5:28

"Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them." Col 3:19

Do you see in these verses how a man is supposed to treat his wife? The top verse demands that a man lay down his life for his wife. It is by loving his wife that a man loves himself.  Note especially the last verse there. BE NOT BITTER against them. Thus, the mistreatment of your friend in the assembly or the mistreatment of the person I saw were not instances of an "assembly" sin. They were sins by men. The assembly would not, could not approve of this treatment because it is un-Biblical.

"Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." I Cor 11:11

Since you are a feminist, I thought I would throw this one in for good measure. This verse speaks to the equality that men and women have in terms of how much God loves us. We are so equal in that sense that God sees marriage as a single entity. He does not only look at the man, nor does He only look at the woman. He looks at them both and he loves them both equally.

I hope that cleared up my perspective on women, Laurie. I do not degrade women, I love them dearly. Laurie, the Lord wants you to be at peace with your feminity. It is good that you are concerned for women, but look to the world for instances of wrongdoings toward women, not just the assembly.
- Matt

[Amy Denny]

My computer is far too slow to read all of the posts in this thread. But with whatI have gleaned I thought I would comment.
I agree with (al I think it was) who said that both men and women were mistreated in the assy. Being female I only have my personal references.  Although being a pretty decent observer I witnessed the "demaleing" of a few men who were far too kind to amount to much of a "leadership position".
Laurie, I understand your anger. I spent years there. Some residual lingers still. I won't tell you what you should or shouldn't say, I agree that was done far too often in the assy. I personally find destructive thoughts only damaging to my own spirit. And when I lay them out for others to hear it is like spitting into the wind. Not worth the breath. But again, the anger needs to be expressed.  And if that is the way you get it out than I think we all are strong enough to recognize the pain behind the words. I've bitten a few heads off in my day I can assure you.
For others:
To get angry at someones anger is not recognizing the grieving process. Anger comes before acceptance. That part of our lives that we had all put so much hope into. Is dead. We had misplaced our hope. We got a big ol' slap across the face and it HURTS!
For those who are telling others how to behave:
To question someone else's spirituality is nonsense! Who are you to tell me who I love or who loves me! You are no one! Our individual relationships with God are our own. In the end it is I who will answer for my life. Don't preach to me your understanding of God's will. If someone is open to God do we not believe He is big enough to ultimately, show us what we need to be shown in order for our lives to be where He wants them to be?
That questioning is what was constantly done in the assy. I think owing to the nature of women, being sensitive to various view, wanting to "get along", it was a point of abuse. I could give examples but I fear I may be outstepping my intended points.
Matt: To poo poo mistreatment of any kind I believe is wrong thinking. You have to admit that owing to some of the specific abuses of GG toward women the very foundation of the assy was tarnished in that light. You can't have the godhead of the group screwing around, with his wife going along with it without some foundational problems. Whether or not you saw a few token people getting "spoken to" there really was (and is throughout christianity) a gender bias.
To be told to put bandaids on my nipples so I won't arrouse any brothers is pretty wierd. It impies that if a brother strays it is my fault for being cold. If I wear big earings, I get "spoken to" because I might cause sinful thoughts in a man's head. Now I admit I shouldn't wear a bikini to worship, but it is not my fault if someone else can't control their zipper.
Personally, I believe the board is cleansing. I personally didn't leave because I recognized the abuses and was smart enough to leave. I left because every promise, every dream, was telling me to go. I left everyone I had come to love deeply. That hurts! Thisboard has helped me to see that although my head didn't know better my spirit did.
Laurie is entitled to some anger. And so are all of us. We all will express it differently. I think the work of love is to have patience with one another. Listen to the messages behind the anger. Sometimes we might just learn something.

[Matt]

My computer is far too slow to read all of the posts in this thread. But with whatI have gleaned I thought I would comment.
I agree with (al I think it was) who said that both men and women were mistreated in the assy. Being female I only have my personal references.  

You really needed to have read more of this thread, though Amy, in order to understand the context and frame of reference. Laurie has never even been to an assembly meeting. She knew one person in the assembly. I did point out that women have been mistreated in the assembly - as they are the world over. Those are individual sins--the sins of man, not of an entity. For example, if someone in the assembly slaps his wife, how am I and every other saint in the assembly responsible? Am I responsible if my neighbor hits his wife? Yes, if I do not do anything about it. But if I speak to the brother or report his wrongdoings to the authorities, I have done what I can. Aside from that, I cannot be held responsible for the actions of others. I do not condone what happened to some of the women in the assembly - but those are not all-encompasing incidents. There are a lot of brothers from the assembly who respect their wives and love them. Therefore, I do not think it is correct to say that the assembly system is to blame. You can find the abuse of women at any church, mosque, or neighborhood. I did admit that there was gender bias on a world-wide scale. I am by no means saying that Laurie or Eulaha have never been harmed on account of their gender. I'm saying though that it is unfair to say that  I "poo-pooed' how Laurie was treated at the assembly because she has never been to one! Just wanted to make sure you had all the facts, ma'am.

[Laurie]

Amy:
Hi sweetie! Thank you for that kind-hearted and timely post. More of that needs to be said. This cult's innerworkings need to be dismantled immediately. I hope that you are healing well. Thanks for your post sweetie.

Matt:
Your last two posts (the one to me and then the one to Amy) were completely out of order. First of all, it was hard to understand them. Second of all, they clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding for the issues at hand. You have managed to irritate every woman on this board. Now's the time to make amends and think about slitting your throat. (Relax, everyone, he's not going to do it, but me saying this will make it clear to him how hated he is by many on this board.)

Love,
Laurie

[Joe Sperling]

Laurie---

I think you need to think about what you just said. You said
Matt is "hated" by many on this board. Stephen Fortescue without comment put up a post from 1 John which states that he who hates his brother is walking in darkness and is not in the light. It would do well to pay heed to that.  

Take Care,  Joe

[Matt]

I witnessed the "demaleing" of a few men who were far too kind to amount to much of a "leadership position".

You are implying that a prerequisite for any kind of leadership position in the assembly is to be unkind.  No, ma'am - that's ridiculous. Again, this will vary by assembly, but this does not ring true for the San Diego assembly. I cannot hear Bob Starr, Brian Dom, or Eric Ferrien slandered in this way. All three men put their hearts and souls into the welfare of the saints in the assembly. They never had an unkind word to say to anybody. They genuinely loved everybody and opened their homes up to the saints. These are men that worked 40+ hr work weeks just to come home prepare a message and deliver it at bible studies. Or just to come home and set up for prayer meetings or organizing outreaches. Bob Starr works as a laborer, cleaning parts for huge machines. How anybody could work so hard in the day and then selflessly give himself at night to the Lord's people is beyond me - it's a wonder he never collapsed from exhaustion. So please keep in mind that maybe *some* leaders were unkind, but NOT all.

Anyway, I'm going to go see X2 tonight, it should be great. Let's all go see it with our various friends tonight and have a good time. we'll be together in spirit!

[MGov]

Brian, Mark C,

I find Laurie's repeated recommendation of suicide, even after being told not to by a number of us, very offensive.

Laurie,
It seems that you could lead the way, by being a good example of how to demonstrate love to our enemies, since none of us are able to do so (sarcasm intended).

M

[psalm51]

Matt:
... You have managed to irritate every woman on this board. Now's the time to make amends and think about slitting your throat. (Relax, everyone, he's not going to do it, but me saying this will make it clear to him how hated he is by many on this board.)

Love,
Laurie

Laurie,
Just for the record, I do not hate Matt AND he has not irritated me nearly as much as you have. You are waaaaaay off base in many of your remarks. You don't read carefully what other people post and shoot off very caustic and ugly remarks. Have you apologized yet about your foolish remarks about suicide? Shame on you.
 PM

[Amy Denny]

Concerning Laurie I was unaware of her connection or lack thereof with the assy. It does not however negate her anger.
Anger does not come from nowhere. I would guess that she has had experiences with a simular cult. or group. Laurie I would like to know but it seems I can't figure out how to connect with anyone. That goes for those who have left me messages too. I have tried to respond only to be told that I can't.
Some of you want me to interspurse biblical references with my examples. OK here's one. Jesus got angry when his Fathers house was being abused. It is not like the apostle Paul told us that Jesus says "it's okay to get angry when GG takes advantage of you" but it is a pretty good indication that even our Teacher got pretty miffed at people that take advantage of others.
Speaking of Anger, Matt WOW! you seem to have a tad bit of it yourself.
I do not "imply" anything. If anything, when I am making a point, I over exagerate it for effect (I'm Irish). I do not beat around any bushes. I understand that some people read things into other's words. That I cannot help. I speak very clearly. If you hear something else it is not my little voice you are listening to and you may consider getting your hearing checked or exorcized. that was a joke!
I am fully aware of the good people in the assy. I am fully aware of the people who spent all of their energy following this wolf in sheeps clothing. In fact that was how he got us all to follow. Keep us so busy we cannot think for ourselves. We didn't sleep enough and when we were awake we were inundated with his teachings. Pretty good tactic. it works quite well. always has. that is the way cults work.
I was making a reference to men that I knew that were too kind to become much in the position of leadership. It was a way of me saying something about those "specific" men without saying any names or places. I have no intention of pointing any fingers thus perpetuating any anger.
Oh, and Laurie, I do not have any such feelings toward Matt. He has his right to express himself just as all of us do. I hope he continues.
In my opinion we need everyone to express themselves. If we only have a bunch of people who pat each other on the back we don't have much truth-telling going on.