My True Issues With Tim Geftakys

[al Hartman]

     Grace to you, and peace, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

     Wow!  i think Brian hit the nail on the head with the term "Institutionalized!"

     i want to share with you a part of my testimony that i haven't posted before:

     Most of the people now on the BB have no idea what the assembly in Fullerton was like in the 1970s.
     Almost everyone in the assembly was under 30, most in their early 20s.  All the children were very small.  Mat-training was a perfected art.  There were no problems of rebellion.  Everything was orderly.  The deception that this was the true picture on earth of the Bride of Christ was nearly perfect.  At least it was so much so that when a trace of reality appeared, we could sweep it under the edge of the rug and pretend it wasn't there.
     Looking back, i can see so many clues that we neglected.
Once, when GG was about to leave on one of his journeys, he had very strongly stressed a doctrinal point in ministry.  Upon his return, two or three months later, he strongly taught the exact opposite of what he had previously said.  Amongst a couple of the other LBs, i wondered aloud about it.  Mark Miller looked me in the eye and said "So what?!"  And that was that.
     That was how all inconsistencies were handled.  Occasionally a visitor or newcomer would dissent and leave, but the regulars accepted the party line unquestioningly.  We were as zombies:  we walked through all the appearances of normal people, but we had disconnected all of our warning lights.  
     We COULD HAVE seen that we were on a collision course with disaster, but we wore blinders.  Having eyes, we saw not;  having ears, we heard not.  We accepted utter weirdness as the status quo.

     i especially want to emphasize this to the saints who are leaders on the BB today:  
     Our experience in the 1970s was VERY different than what happened in later years.  As the assemblies and the work grew, there were many more people involved, who were of varying backgrounds and ages, with families of different inclinations and sizes.
     As the numbers increased, so did the variables, and thus the numbers of ways that things could slip out of hand.
     To those whose positions and fortunes depended upon consistency, this meant a necessity for more and harsher controls.  In the early years, we delighted in calling each other Brother and Sister-- later on it became mandatory.  Many things became mandatory that had once been considered privileges.  Practices and order that had once been maintained through a sort of idiotic trust became the subjects of strict and severe discipline.  Shepherds became Storm Troopers.

     Some, like my family, have been gone for over 20 years.  Many who have left recently had not even shown up when we had departed.  Some had not yet been born.  Our experiences are VERY different.  i stress this for a reason:

     i was brutalized, yes.  But i did not know it at the time!  When i left, it was because i was no longer fit for service.  
i was burnt out from trying to perform the responsibilities of a worker, LB, house leader, head of a family of six, and employment at a fulltime vocation.  i was exhausted and my health was deteriorated.  And i was cast off like a worn out shoe.
     My family and i were quarantined-- no one was permitted to have contact with us.  We left as failures to the Lord and to his work.  And we were sent every new issue of the T&T to remind us of our shortcomings.
    i wasn't bitter.  Know why?  Because everything about the assembly was right, and everything about me was wrong.  GG & co. were godly-- i was not.  Hey, i believed it!  For years!  i was unfit for Christian service anywhere.

     Did i indicate that there would be a point to all this?  Well here it is:  
     i (we) have had years to recover.  i only recently discovered how truly heinous the crimes against us were.  But to us they're ancient history!  We've had time to get over it, outgrow it, recovery from it.  Many of us never personally saw the Geftakys's & their cronies as evil people, because they were still in the closet when we left.  
     We never had reason to be angry.  We skipped that phase.  By the time we learned of something to be angry about, it was too late.  Those of you more recently harmed probably can't conceive of what i'm telling you.  Some among us still haven't realized that those wonderful people we were so devoted to following were gargoyles dressed as saints.

     So i'm asking you all, on behalf of all of us who are "different," be patient with us.  If someone pops up on the BB & pops off about your anger & hostility, tolerate us.  
i now understand the reason you are angry, and i respect your feelings.  But some of us still don't get it.  You can't understand why?  That's OK...  But try to accept us as we are--  we haven't all seen what you've seen;  felt what you've suffered.
     Some of us really do have peace in our hearts.  Don't resent us for that.  Continue, as you have, to reveal the truth to us, pray for us, and try to bear with us.  We're all in the same boat--  let's keep it a fellow-ship.

God grant us all that we may see
our next step in following him.

al Hartman

[vernecarty]

Al!
I am shouting the victory as I read your last post. Thank you for your candor brother...
THIS IS THE LESSON THE LORD WOULD HAVE US ALL LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!
Verne

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings Al and everyone:
 Thank you for what you have shared and how you shared it!
Sebastian Andrew

[al Hartman]

 



G'day, mates!  
God help us all to know
the richness and fulness of his blessings!

     Many of you are too young to remember when the US was fighting in Viet Nam.  Americans at home were horrified as the world press revealed that some of our troops were annihilating entire villages, including women and children.  There are some comparisons and contrasts between that scenario and the present spiritual warfare in which you and i are engaged.

     American GIs didn't know who was and who was not their enemy.  There were a gazillion people, all much smaller than the average american, all dressed as civilians, all either smiling or looking at the ground, and some of whom had explosives taped around their bodies, under their loose-fitting clothes.  Men, women and small children would walk in among our service personnel, in camp or in town, and suddenly blow up themselves and everyone around them.  Some Vietnamese were looking to the USA for help, while others wanted to kill and maim as many Americans as they could.  There was no simple protection for anyone.

     In spiritual warfare also, the sides aren't always apparent.  Satan can appear as an angel of light.  "Shepherds" can preach and teach a compelling gospel, even while their hands are busy shearing the flock and preparing mutton stew.  But we don't have to mow down everyone in sight in order to assure our own safety.  Here's why:
     Our armor, our Leader, and our cause (provided that it is HIS cause) are invincible!  And if that isn't enough, Jesus Christ has already secured the victory for us!  The whole battle before us is whether we will believe, accept and act upon these truths.

     With these thoughts in mind, i make a plea for understanding, acceptance and tolerance.  (There are two kinds of people who are impatient and intolerant:  [1.] Those who are young and impetuous, and [2.] everybody else).
     Put yourself in the place of someone who has spent the last two-to-three decades in an assembly, a non-leader who has tried to rear a family by impossible standards;  who has settled on a career built upon the hours of availability between assembly functions;  who has chosen a place to live based upon funds still available after supporting the assembly and the "work";  and who is tolerated by the assembly leadership mainly because of funds regularly "offered", labor provided upon demand, and unquestioning obedience.  Sound like fun?  Sounds pretty familiar.
     Now, picture yourself as that person, totally submitted to the local assembly.  Suddenly you are approached by a former assembly member who tells you that everything you have believed, professed, practiced and based your future hopes upon for most of your adult life is a total lie!  How easy do you think that will be for you to accept?
     You are told that the people you have most trusted and looked up to are vicious liars who have robbed you of everything meaningful in your life.  You are now faced with telling your children, your work associates, family and friends with whom you have parted company in order to "keep the faith" that everything you have told them for the past 20 or 30 years was wrong;  that you've been a fool and have wasted your life.  Think you would jump at the opportunity to buy into all this?

     It was relatively easy for those among the LBs or "in the work," where the rule was "Shape up, or ship out."  Take me:  i "fell from shape," so i was "shipped" (they stamp you, address you "anywhere but here" and drop you).  We didn't have to accept any ideas from anybody--  we were cast adrift, to sink or swim.  
     Besides, at 60 i've made enough mistakes and learned to admit them, that owning up to one more isn't all that big a deal.
     But your average Joe Saint can hang around an assembly forever if he's willing to keep up a decent cash flow and quietly help out wherever, whenever and however he's told.  So when you yank his whole world out from under him, do you think he's going to thank you and throw a celebration?

     Next time you're wondering why some of the assemblyites are still there after all they've seen and heard lately, consider the cost to them emotionally and psychologically to take the steps you've taken.  Have some pity, some mercy, some patience, some understanding, some acceptance, some tolerance.  OK-- maybe that's asking too much...  but will you pick at least a couple of those qualities and exercise them?  You can do it!  Thanks!!!

on behalf of ALL for whom Christ suffered and died,
al Hartman

[Bluejay]

That was an outstanding point Al.  Well said!!!

[vbeers]

Below you will find the private message that I send to TimG as well as the one he sent back to me.  I had my doubts that the coward would actually get on the Blackboard and feel those doubts have most likely now been substantiated.  As for this imposter's question back to me, yes, I do consider myself to be an intelligent human being (quite, actually) and yes, I do consider myself to be a Christian.  If you were the "REAL" TimG, you would have better understood the questions posed to you in my private message.

Brian Tucker- I cannot believe that, given the circumstances, someone would be allowed to even remotely pose as Tim G. on this Blackboard.  

QUOTE:
Dear vbeers,

Do you consider yourself to be an intelligent human being???

Do you actually think that the real Tim Geftakys would sign on to a site that attacks every aspect of his character and appearance???

Secondly, do you consider yourself to be a Christian???  Please reread your message below and reevaluate how you are representing the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just a little food for thought.


Quote
TimG
I doubt I will be the first to ask this, but do you plan to 'defend' yourself?  There is no way that you personally can make right that which you have warped for so many years but you do have a very real opportunity to help those you have so hurt come to terms with the sick cult they have been a part of.  

This is the ONLY public forum about which every person ever involved with the Assembly is knowledgeable.  The BB is a source of communication and a tool for healing.  You can either sit quietly by the wayside and take no real public stance or you can speak.  Be participative, Tim.  Be a man.  Let's see if you have anything to say that isn't 'phenomanally stupid'.

vbeers

[Bluejay]

Vbeers,

I agree with you...

First off, what are the chances that someone would post as TimG on this BB...Everyone refers to Tim Geftakys as TImG...My guess is that this is one of Tim Geftakys puppets who was attempting to bait people into sending him messages.  

As far as asking the real Tim Geftakys to "be a man" and post on this site, and for him to say something that is not "phenomenally stupid", I think you are asking far to much from him.  For that matter, based on his limited education, I am sure that actually posting would be quite a chore for him.  He would probably have to get someone to show him how to log onto a computer and then click on post to send a message.

You are talking about a person who is over 50 who has been living off his dad his whole life and someone who has had control over a group his whole life...He has never had to admit any wrongdoing...To think he would actually be man enough to post on this site...probably not going to happen.

Actually, he's not even man enough to answer his phone or return a phone call.  I tried calling him last week after I got his number when calling 411.  I asked for the Timothy Geftakys in Fullerton, Ca. when I called the directory.  I assume he is the only one with this name out there.  

He is a snake and should be dealt with accordignly.

[brian]

Brian Tucker- I cannot believe that, given the circumstances, someone would be allowed to even remotely pose as Tim G. on this Blackboard.

its true. i should have gotten to the bottom of it sooner. thanks for taking the initiative. looks like you chased them away - the account is now gone. fear vbeers   nice job!

[moose_]

I have just found this bb and was browsing.

In regaurd to the assembly in Omaha disbanding, it is not true, regrouping is a more correct term. I noticed that Pat stated that they are taking 6 weeks off, which is partially true.

Overtly they are taking 5 weeks for (don't know what term to use) evaluate, get in touch with the greater christian community, which is much needed. However there are some that are still meeting for worship and Bible study, just not at 7505 seward. The leader ship has been meeting and planning.

May first, they will meet again to seek the lords will in light of continuing to gather at 7505 Seward. I supose that the leadership needs to be ready in case they do, how ever I would feel more comfortable if they did not meet and spent the time getting in contact with the larger christian community and truly waiting to see what the Lord wants.

[mkoley]

In regards to Omaha, I am a bit torn.  For myself, I view it as a dichotomy.  I do think it's good and refreshing that some of the Saints are reaching out and at least attempting to meet with other Christians.  For some, I would question there sincerity, but that's another matter.  On the other hand, ask yourself this question.  Do you really want some the "saints" at the Church you attend?  What if some of them really don't want a fresh start.  Then you have "saints" coming in with preconceived notions about this "worldy" church they are attending.  This in turn, could lead to trying to "make a difference" in some of the church members and turning a place of worship into a mission field.  I think sincerity is the operative word here and I'll tell you why.  I was recently approached by the "saints" on two different occasions where I fellowship.  Both times, I was with my wife.  Now, to their credit, they were both very cordial and geniune, TO ME!!  However, on both occasions, I introduced each of them to my wife and they BARELY ACKNOWLEDGED HER.  They acknowledged it was good that I got married and congradulated me, but never said more than two words to my wife.  What is she, chopped liver!!!  She's my wife for crying out loud!!  Now, I don't know if this was done overtly, or out of shear ignorance.  Many times in my assembly hay days, I would "go out" to people and my only concern was "getting them on with the Lord", without really caring about the person. This was done unintentionally, not overtly.  Irregardless, it's still a real slap in the face to both myself and especially my wife.  I'm glad that some of the saints are reaching out, but I still have some hesistation.  

P.S. I know I'm not the most eloquent or articulate person, so forgive me if I my speech comes across as "phemonally dumb!!"

[al Hartman]

P.S. I know I'm not the most eloquent or articulate person, so forgive me if my speech comes across as "phenomenally dumb!!"  
                                             mkoley

     No, dear Brother, your words come across as phenomenally welcome.  You have raised an important issue:  What if?  (What if thus-and-so happens?)  For us who have come out of the morass of the assemblies, there are a lot of what ifs.  Fortunately, they can all be dealt with in the same effective way.
     We have been taught to strategize:  to plot the various possibilities and plan courses of action to meet each potential situation.  It is the world's way of governing conduct, and the assemblies instructed us in a modified version of it, which was passed off to us as the will of God.

     But in reality, the mind of God works on an entirely different plane.  He is omniscient, all-knowing, and therefor has no need to strategize.  Things that have yet to come to pass in our concept of time are already feats accomplished in God's economy.  His "works were finished from the foundation of the world." Heb 4:3, and God "has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world." Eph 1:4.  (See also Matt 25:34, John 17:24, I Pet 1:20).
     So all these things that may or may not happen are already known to God, and he isn't worried about them, so we don't need to be either.
     Paul said that a "messenger of Satan" was sent to buffet him, and he asked the Lord three times to take it away from him.  And the Lord told Paul, "My grace is sufficient for you; for my strength is made perfect in weakness."  
     Paul's conclusion is, "Most gladly therefor I will glory in my afflictions, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.  So I take pleasure in afflictions, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake:  for when I am weak, then I am strong."
     Now the everyday situations that will face us, such as confrontations with former assemblyites, aren't likely to be any worse for us than the messenger of Satan that troubled Paul.  So we can follow Paul's example in knowing that Christ's grace is sufficient for us; we can rejoice in the situations that allow God to demonstrate the strength of his grace for us.

     We all have some preconceived notions.  Let's push them away and fix our eyes upon our savior, who has always loved us and will never leave or forsake us.  "Let us set aside every weight, and the sin which so readily besets us, and let us patiently run the race that is set in front of us, LOOKING UNTO JESUS, the author and finisher of our faith..." Heb 12:1-2

                    More about Jesus would I know,
          More of his grace to others show,
                    More of his saving fulness see,
          More of his love who died for me.


al Hartman

[mkoley]

Thanks Al, I appericate your comments.