Healing

[MGov]

Good one Stephen.

Here's another.

There was this guy travelling from LA to San Diego.  When he got on the freeway he saw a sign that said San Diego Left.  So he turned around and went back.

[MGov]

I think this forum of communicating is great! Having to write down our thoughts before posting has the advantage of 'time' to think out what we are going to say, and the benefit of prayer before communicating. Our thoughts need not be communicated 'on the spur of the moment', but after careful consideration in order to edify others.

1Cor 14:12 So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.
Eph 4:29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, that it may give grace to those who hear.

[Matt]

Good one Stephen.

Here's another.

There was this guy travelling from LA to San Diego.  When he got on the freeway he saw a sign that said San Diego Left.  So he turned around and went back.

Oh, if we only we (San Diego) could leave and put more distance between us and LA. I was at LAX airport yesterday...what a zoo trying to navigate Tom Bradley terminal. It took me 4.5 hrs to drive home because Californias don't know how to drive in the rain.

[MGov]

Matt,

I thought it never rained in Southern California.

(or maybe that one's before your time too).

M

[Matt]

Matt,

I thought it never rained in Southern California.

(or maybe that one's before your time too).

M

Yes, before I was born, but everybody in So. Cal knows that song! They play it regularly when it rains. I guess to prove the song wrong?

[Matt]

Matt,
Do you like Newsboys?  My kids really like them.
What's X2?
M

My kids enlightened me today that X2 is a movie (shows you how much I know); I did see X-Men. Did you like X2?

M

Yes, last weekend I saw X2 and Identity. They were both good, but for different reasons. X2 is good for special effects. Identity was better though because it has a substantial plot. I like movies with a plot unless it's a comedy like Zoolander (go and rent that). Oh, X2 was much better than the first X-men.
And, yes, I like Newsboys, but I don't listen to them that much. This new church that I'm going to plays Newsboys songs, Sonic Flood, Third Day, that kind of music, so it feels like a concert.

[MGov]

author: H.H.Booth

LORD, through the Blood of the Lamb that was slain,
Cleansing for me,
From all the guilt of my sins now I claim
Cleansing from Thee,
Sinful and black though the past may have been,
Many the crushing defeats I have seen,
Yet on Thy promise, O Lord, now I lean,
Cleansing for me.

From all the doubts that have filled me with gloom, Cleansing for me,
From all the fears that would point me to doom,
Cleansing for me.
Jesus, although I may not understand,
In childlike faith now I put forth my hand,
And through Thy Word and Thy grace I shall stand
Cleansed by Thee.

From all the care of what men think or say,
Cleansing for me,
From ever fearing to speak, sing, or pray,
Cleansing for me.
Lord, in Thy love and Thy power make me strong,
That all may know that to Thee I belong;
When I am tempted let this be my song
Cleansing for me.

[editor]

author: H.H.Booth

Sinful and black though the past may have been,
Many the crushing defeats I have seen,
Yet on Thy promise, O Lord, now I lean,
Cleansing for me.

That's really beautiful.

I remember our first year out of the Assembly.  Suzie and I looked at eachother and said, "I just want to hear about the love of God for a year."  Well, that's exactly what happened, and it was wonderful.  ....Still is.

Brent

[MGov]

This morning the Lord taught me a lesson thet I would like to share for your edification.

Someone (not a family member or anyone from this BB), in whom I had invested many hours ministering to, treated me harshly. It hurt, but then I thought of how many times I myself have spurned the Lord after ALL He has done for me.  The Lord comforted me with Booth's hymn (that I posted).  Brent pointed out a section from verse 1, but verse 3 was what came to mind at the time.

Matt, if I was a LB(LBW) &/or worker who had ministered to the saints out of genuine love and care for their souls, I would not want a website to proclaim the glories of my labor of love;  the PHARISEES sought that and they had their reward.  I would rather have the Lord vindicate me in His time.

Brent, I used to visit GA.com and I think that what's possibly lacking is that many are sharing their stories, but their stories are incomplete if they do not also share how the Lord met them.
After putting my confidence in GG, TG, Bros. A,B,C,D,E,M,R and whatever other initial I have forgotten, I cannot now put my confidence in Ga.com as being the 'road to healing'.  It almost seems to me that the new 'assembly fad' is repentance letters.  Some of those letters are accurate(possibly) in their content, but the fruit of repentance is not fully visible in the individuals(this is not a blanket statement). I rarely visit GA.com(AR.com) anymore; I spend most of my online time on this BB.

M

[editor]

This morning the Lord taught me a lesson thet I would like to share for your edification.


Brent, I used to visit GA.com and I think that what's possibly lacking is that many are sharing their stories, but their stories are incomplete if they do not also share how the Lord met them.

Yes, I agree.  However, not all of the stories follow what you say.  Some, perhaps half of them do.  Have you read my book?  It clearly describes how the Lord met me, and there are others as well.  

I cannot now put my confidence in Ga.com as being the 'road to healing'.  It almost seems to me that the new 'assembly fad' is repentance letters.  Some of those letters are accurate(possibly) in their content, but the fruit of repentance is not fully visible in the individuals(this is not a blanket statement). I rarely visit GA.com(AR.com) anymore; I spend most of my online time on this BB.

GA/AR.com is NOT, repeat, IS NOT the 'road to healing."  It never was, and never shall be.  Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.  He is The Way to healing.

GA.com's function is along these lines:

2 Cor 10:1  Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ--who in presence [am] lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you.  2  But I beg [you] that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.  3  For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.  4  For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,  5  casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,  6  and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

In many epistles, there is a cataloging of "mistakes," or sin.  Certainly the Corinthian epistles fit this mold.  The reason is that before there can be building up, there often must be a casting down.

Again, let there be no mistake, I have never held out the website as a road to healing.  I do think, however, that many people have found the road through the website.  Others found healing quite apart from the site, and I'm sure a few have been hindered.

However, imagine what things would be like, in hindsight, if none of this had never happened, and George was getting ready to teach summer school... dictating his notes to a young woman, teaching unintelligible messages....

I haven't read anything on the new website, except the theological articles.  I don't go back and re-read all the stuff from the collapse.  However, to NOT read it at all is irresponsible.

Also, people are free to write their stories the way they want to.  Perhaps you could write yours and emphasize the blessing you received?  It would certainly be a nice addition, don't you think?  I never edited out the kind parts of anyone's story, I usually corrected puctuation, and published them as-is.  Anyone is free to write their own story, even start their own website!

Paul took pains to warn his friends, he just does a much better job at pointing them to Christ than I, or Steve Irons does.  That's why I encourage people to read their bibles, and get under sound teaching.  (not GG's)  

Jesus is The Way.

Brent

[MGov]

Brent,

Got it. (quote from the Court Jester).

10-4.

M

PS. I do not plan to write my story in the near future.

[editor]

Here's another little analogy, coutesy of Andante, my Rawson 30.  While beating on a port tack, with waves on the port bow, reefed main and full jib, I thought of the following:

Picture in your mind's eye, the grandcanyon.  On the North side is a place called "Healing."  On the South, a place called "Deception and Bitterness."  In between is the chasm, represented by the Grand Canyon.

The goal is to get from Deception (D), to Healing (H).  They are exactly a mile apart.

People who live in D, are weak and malnourished, and suffer from bad eyesight, and poor hearing.  However, they have heard that these problems can be cured by the physician, who lives in H.

Some people, keep their eyes on H, and then seek a way to climb down to the floor of the canyon.  There are numerous hazards, dead ends, loose rocks, and slippery slopes on the way down.  Should they make it to the bottom in one piece, which is not easy, they need to negotiate to torrent that flows at the bottom.  Should they make it across this, (many have drowned) they need to scale the wall on the far side, which has even more loose boulders and hazards than the south wall.  Very few people have ever been successful at this route.  It takes mountain climbing, swimming, and endurance.  On top of that, it is highly dangerous.  This route is attractive, because people can see the end from the starting point, and it looks so easy, so close, and so quick.

An old man stands by, and warns people that this isn't a good way, but most people don't listen.  They point at H, and say, "It's right over there, old fool.  Maybe you can't do it, but I can.  How dare you try to discourage me."

The other route takes a person Eastward, along the South rim, for 50 miles.  After about 2 days of walking, people who take this route can't see their destination any longer.  They begin to wonder if they were foolish to try this way, when so many were taking the "easy" way.  But, an old man, who claimed to be a doctor, swore that he had been there and back told them that this "long way," was the only way to healing.  The traveller continues to walk, with his destination completely obscured under the horizon, until the 5th day, when the walls of the canyon begin to dramatically decrease.  Soon, an easy way down to the floor is visible.  A short walk down, a wet, but moderate swim across a much more docile river, followed by a moderate hike to the top of the other side takes a full day.  After walking Westward, for 3 days, the traveller can see the south city of D.  When seeing this, they are elated, because they realize that they are seeing the familiar city from the other side of the canyon. On the 4th day, they can see their destination, and they arrive, intact, on day 11.

One way was a mile, the other was 10 times farther, but the person who took the long way got there first.  Most of the short-cutters perished within a quarter mile of their destination.


There are people who get out of The Assembly, and seem to land on their feet, but they are few and far between.  Most people who leave the Assembly, or got left when it collapsed, will try to take the short cut.  The see the destination, but fail to comprehend the fact that they have been weakened, blinded and deceived.  They are not up to the climb down, swim, and climb up.

Others, who realize this, take advice from people who have gone before, and though the way seems longer, it actually takes far less time.  

The moral of the story:

Don't be so quick and impatient to "serve the Lord," or "be a blessing to these dear christians."  Instead, take the long way, which is actually the short way.  Don't be so quick to write off the BB, and the testimonies as "bitter and divisive,"  they actually contain the map for the long way, which leads to healing.

Instant Sanctification and holiness was the lure that hooked many of us into Geftakysism.  Life just doesn't work that way.  Healing takes time.

Brent

[MGov]

Not all AKs were treated as Bluejay was.  This is not to belittle in any way what Bluejay has experienced in the 'assembly system'. I believe that this BB should minister to him with respect to what he has gone through.

The question arises, What about those AKs who were not affected by the 'assembly system'?
In a family the parents take care of the 'burdens' of running the home etc.  The children are protected from this burden until they are old enough to participate in it.
In an assembly the LB and mature non-LB take care of the 'business' of the assembly.  The young ones are hopefully oblivious to the burden involved of 'running' the assembly. They (young) grow up, have friendships, attend meetings, listen to ministry, but are not burdened to 'take care of the flock'.  Hence some of the 'problems' posted on the BB may seem like a 'foreign' concept to them (the young).  My teens are hurting from this assembly mess up business because of no Seminars/TeenTeam/MTT where they got to meet others their age. To them the 'politicking' of leadership is a foreign concept.
Those very same LBs whose behavior was like the Pharisees and therefore must be exposed, have ministered to the young ones and cared for them.

Maybe, there's a need to re-clarify as to the purpose of this BB.  Is it for 'all' affected? Is it only for those who were affected by the 'assembly system'?  Where do teens like mine find healing on this BB?  I have observed that others have been blasted for not seeing the corruption of the leadership, but that is not understanding their hurt and ministering to them accordingly.

To quote from AlH's excellent post
23   General Discussion / Any and All Topics / In His Image and Likeness...  on: April 25, 2003,
...  This bulletin board has become a field hospital and aid station for wounded pilgrims.  Much healing and nourishing takes place here.  Besides, many have posted here of finding new fellowship and instruction in neighborhood churches, home meetings, radio ministries, and correspondence.  ...    Much work remains to be done for all who have suffered. ...
 Jesus promises that when we come to him, he will give us **rest.  There is a special rest reserved for God's people.Heb.4:9.  He wants us to be comfortable in approaching him, so he receives us meekly, with lowliness in heart.  Perfect love (His) casteth out fear.IJn.4:18.
end-quote.

If this is true, how do we help the young ones like mine as well?
I have not recommended to my teens that they should frequent this BB because I know that not many would be sympathetic to them. I will admit, that lately you have been more civil towards young Matt.  I would have expected a more fatherly approach from the start.  The Lord Jesus did not parcel all that came to him in the same packages and minister the same solution to each (that is an 'assembly-system' method).

Something to think about...
M

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  Very good conversation here re. some very important points on the subject of healing.
  MGov. has shared re. her concern re. the different experiences AK's may have had vs. adults in the Assembly.  The AK's weren't aware of all the "politicking" and just enjoyed the youth meetings.  Matt has shared his concern that much of his interaction with the Assembly was positive and built him up in Christ.
  Obviously, an individual's experience in the Assembly may range from very abusive (Rachel/Judy) to supportive (Matt/ Luke).  This has caused there to be a debate re. which position is closer to the truth, and it is one that can not be decided on the basis of individual experience alone.
   Nazi Germany was a very positive experience for many in Germany (this is not to say that the Assembly was similar to Nazi Germany, just that it was a political system that history has declared to be evil).  We have learned that the Nazi's "believed", "taught" and "practiced" certain things that were wrong.  For a post war German to say, "well, it helped the economy and  my family went from hunger to being well fed, and so it was a good experience for me", would be a cruel mockery to the the Jews who experienced such abuse and a dangerous kind of relativism.
  To say that there were certain good things that Hitler did for Germany is unquestionably true, but such evaluations do not help us understand Nazism or avoid it's pitfalls.
  There is such a thing as "Assemblyism" and to find healing from the teaching/practices of it we must first identify what it is.  Part of the renewal of the mind is to be able to make clear distinctions between what is a false religous system and the grace of God in Truth.
  If Ak's think that the behavior modification message/disciplines of the Assembly are the means of relating to God it is possible they don't even understand the simple Gospel message and aren't saved.  
  Some will protest that the Gospel was clearly presented in the group and it wasn't so "systemized" as I am suggesting.  To such protestors I would ask, "Is God active in judging Christian groups today?  What just happened in the last 6 months or so?  If it was just a GG and family problem why did God not keep the "system" operative?  Why did so many local leaders abandon their gatherings?
   One of the most dangerous results from being involved in the Assembly is to leave without ever gaining discernment from one's involvement.  It could mean that the individual was only there for the "group" benefits and never developed individual faith and discipleship.  Such individuals could easily find themselves in another group centered church thinking that such social gatherings equal the Gospel.
  Healing is by means of the Gospel and living a grace based relationship with God as an individual.  Hiding from facing the distortion that the Assembly brought to the Gospel will only hinder one's discovery of the grace of God in truth and remove us from the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts(Gal.1:6-9).
   The whole book of Galatians describes the "grace plus" error that was clearly presented by the Assembly teachers and how this pseudo gospel leads to perverted practices.  To deny this is just to deny the fact of the matter.  Undoubtably, the merit theology message presented in Galatia promoted a kind of good holy living and may have been superficially helpful to certain individuals in controlling their sinful passions, but it hindered the work of the Holy Spirit in it's ministry of grace in their hearts.
   The chief benefit of this BB is to help us "think" clearly about the Gospel and to learn to enjoy the liberty we have in Christ and not to be entangled again in the yoke of bondage that was the Assembly experience.  I would encourage even those who were far from the politics of the Assembly or who were not personally abused in their involvement to answer the question, "what is the Gospel and what is the Christian life?"
   These questions will always produce positive results in the lives of the seeker.
                                        God Bless, Mark  

[MGov]

Dear Brother Mark,

I agree that the Geftakysism is not of the Lord.  My post was an attempt to give a perspective of AKs who are hurting by this and need us to minister to them.  The approach of trying to convince them that the leaders need to repent will not be effective because it is a 'foreign concept' to them.  Healing for them will not come via that means, yet, generally speaking (not always), that has been the method on this BB.  If we are to minister to all who have been affected by Geftakysism then we need to be sensitive to their need in order to apply the proper 'word'.

God bless,
M