Something Wonderful About to Happen

[karensanford]

Eulaha, I just posted under a different thread (Wounded Pilgrims?) about my own therapy experience.  Until one has been through it, I don't think they are qualified to comment effectively on it.  

I support you.  

[Eulaha L. Long]

In the Bible, God spoke to someone via a donkey!

I can hear the voice of God in nature, by reading the posts on the bulletin board.  I'm so glad God is not limited.

I remember the chapter summary times, when we all HAD to hear God's voice thru the particular chapter we were reading.  Sometimes I didn't hear God's voice, but I made up some chapter summary cause it was the thing to do, you know?  Sometimes God may not speak to you via a particular verse, I beleive that now...

[Bob Sturnfield]

But also, remember that not every speaking donkey is the voice of God.

There is safety in getting good counsel, but in the end the decision has to be what the Lord shows you.  You can not live your life based on what others think is right.  You must do what you know is right.

Rom 14:12  So then each one of us shall give account of himself to God.

[Kimberley Tobin]

"Here's some dispensational truth: in the Old Testament, it was a miracle when a jackass spoke. In the New Testament, it's a miracle when one shuts up."

Take your own advice, John.

[Bob Sturnfield]

Happy New Years
May He crown this New Year with His goodness towards you.

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Psalm 65:11

The song I find myself singing is Charles Wesley's And can it be that I should gain

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine;
Alive in Him, my living Head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th’eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.

Acts 16:26  And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison shook, and all the doors were immediately opened, and the bonds of all loosed.

[Bob Sturnfield]

Another Promise for the New Year:

Is 43:19  Behold, I will do a new thing; now will it spring forth; will you not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

Acts 12:7  And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him, and a light shined in the cell: and he smote Peter on the side, and awoke him, saying, Rise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.

1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has taken you but such as is according to man’s nature; and God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above what you are able to bear, but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

The Lord will "make a way" where there was no way!

[Oscar]

Brent and Mark,

I sincerely appreciate your bearing with me.  I have carried my way of thought for several years now, but because of my involment in the assembly, I am always "wondering" if I have it right.  Consequently, as I discuss these things I am looking for verification or correction.  Your different angles help to temper my thinking.  These teachings are important and very powerful for good or destruction, depending on the methods of application (like a loaded gun...handle with care!).  So, these discussions are very profitable to me.

Mark, by the way, I also see Rom 7 as Paul writing in the present tense.  I vaguely remember GG saying that was all in Paul's past and thinking that that was strange.  Any believer can find themselves in that "fleshly condition".  Did GG really say that he didn't sin anymore?  That is way out in outer space if he did!!!

Greg, you are way over my head on those questions.  I will have to think and read what others say.  Is that something that GG taught?  Doesn't John 3:16 say that "God so loved the WORLD"?  I am interested to hear what this is about.  

Thank you, thank you, thank you,
Lord bless all,
Freebird......."they call me the breeze"

Garth,
Regarding your question "Did GG really say that he didn't sin any more?"

In one of my last conversations with GG I discussed with him a passage he had preached on from Matthew.  It contained the statement, "Be ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect."
The idea was that you are really going to work hard at holiness if you wish to be an overcomer.  (shiver).  
I asked him, "Have you attained this standard?"  His answer was, "I am not conscious of having sinned in years"!  

By this time I had figured out that the Lord's Servant, He Who Bore Apostolic Authority, The One To Whom "This Ministry" Was Committed, was an card carrying citizen of LA LA LAND    ,
so I filed this information in my "I'm outta here" file.
God bless,
Tom M.

[Mark C.]

Hi Greg !
  Boy, you sure can pick a controversial passage for discussion.  I remember Steve's message as well and remember being shocked to hear it at the time.  Actually, the interpretation he gave is a very common one given by those who believe "once saved, always saved."  Steve probably got it from a commentary and missed receiving the company spin from GG on these verses.  GG believed the passage was refering to losing out on your inheritance, but not your salvation.  Church of Christ teaches that the passage proves we can lose our salvation.
  I must get to bed, but will try to respond more tomorrow.
                                              God bless,  Mark

[karensanford]

Hi Greg  

Thanks for bringing up something to chew on.  It's hard for me to feel hard and fast one way or another because in my own life, I have known people who have known the Lord, then fallen away and denied Him with their lives (and some with their tongues) and then again taken up their cross and are now living joyful lives in Him.  

On the other hand, the words of the scripture in this particular passage do seem clear.  

Maybe they never really knew Him in the first place?

On the other hand, I think of the parable of the prodigal son.  Would the Lord not greet returning lost sheep as the father greeted his son?  

I am looking forward to hearing what others have to say on this.

[4Him]

                             Heb 6:3-8  

3  And this will we do, if God permit.
4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7  For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8  But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Believing in the eternal security of believers, I think that the Lord is referring to the danger of backsliding.  I don't believe that it is saying that either one loses his salvation (a la Church of Christ, et al) or, as Karen conjectured, "Maybe they never really knew Him in the first place" (a la Harry Ironside and many fundamentalists). Both of these views lead us to insecurity. I'm either in fear of losing my salvation someday by some unknown level of sin or I'm constantly nagged by doubting whether I was really saved in the first place.  In view of this passage, I've always clung to Mt 19:25 & 26 believing that God is able for me by his mercy & grace which overrides that which is impossible for me to do.

It also has tended to work carefulness.  I am painfully aware of my propensities for sin and (what seems to me) the possibility of becoming deceived and stuck in my own sin.  The mention at the end of "to be burned" brings to mind 1Co 3:13 & 15, which speaks of fire trying our work.   I don't like being burned.

However, if I'm walking in the faith of Jesus, which I know He has commanded me, the theology (inheritance, loss of salvation, etc.) of this passage becomes less important and actually living in a way that honors Him becomes more important.

[Bob Sturnfield]

I believe the issue is whether the Lord got "fruit" in their lives.

The passage Heb 6:7-8 specifically says that these ones never bore fruit in their lives.

Mat 7:20  Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There are many other passages that show eternal security for those who have had the reality of the Lord's working in their lives.
Phil 1:6  being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Those that hear His voice and follow
Mat 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28  and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
29   My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30  I and the Father are one.

[Kay]

There's something wonderful about today!
We're free! We're free in Christ.

[Mark C.]

Hi All,
  No scripture is of private interpretation; in other words we must interpret scripture in light of it's immediate context and also as it fits in with all of scripture.
   The immediate context is the book of Heb.  This book was written to those who were in danger of returning to the practice of the Old Covenant.  The entire book points out that the Old was a shadow of the reality to come in the New Test.  To go back would be a total rejection of Jesus Christ and his work on the cross.  
   The greater context of the NT teaches the eternal security of the believer and so how do we understand the passage in Heb.?  I believe the passage is directed toward a "mixed multitude" of those gathering as Christians.  There is a body of professing Christians and there were one's tempted to return to the Old Test. who were unsaved.  It was possible for many to see Jesus's miracles and hear his message and yet not enter the Kingdom.  There were some Hebrews here who had tasted of these experiences w/o ingesting these same truths.  
  How are we to judge an individual who once claimed to be a Christian and now rejects the New Covenant?  Are they a back slidden Christian or an unsaved person?  It is clear that the passage teaches that it is impossible to be right with God if one rejects Jesus Christ and him crucified; there is no other way of salvation.  Only God knows if the individual's denial is like Peter's or like Judas's.  We can know, if we are relying on the Gospel, that we are of those who are eternally secure in his salvation.  We can fall into great weakness and sin, but there is always recovery for the fallen Christian.  For the unsaved there is no hope of recovery if they reject Christ.  
                                 God Bless,  Mark  
   

[Joe Sperling]

Mark and others----

The discussion concerning Heb 6 is very interesting. I have read many many different interpretations concerning this
particular scripture. It is a difficult one for sure. I remember  reading a small book called "A lifting up of the downcast"
by a Puritan writer. I have the book at home but can't remember the author's name. But I remember clearly that he said concerning this scripture and others to remember that scripture answers scripture. One verse will say "IF you continue..." which is answered by "knowing this very thing, that he who has begun a good work in you WILL FINISH it".
So one verse seems to infer that you might not make it while another seems to answer that doubt with a resounding affirmation that God will do it. John Owen also had an interesting take on Heb. 6. He said that the very placement of those verses is to prevent a true Christian from falling. He said that the Lord has put "A hedge around us"--if we try to run through that hedge we run into thorns. When we turn from God(and truly are Christians) these verses will terrorize us and bring fear to our hearts. These verses will not bring fear to the heart of an unbeliever because he doesn't care. So, in effect what John Owen is saying is that it is impossible for a true Christian to really fall away because God has put a hedge up with verses that threaten that if you fall away you cannot repent. And no True Christian can bear the thought of not being able to return. I know that it is all conjecture---but very interesting
conjecture.       take care, Joe

[editor]

Hopefully, this will be read by some of the people that are deciding whether of not to discipline George.

Psalm 51:2-4,6.

Wash me thouroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.  for I acknowledge my transgressions, and my sin is always before me.  Against You, You only, have I sinned, and done this evil in Your sight---that You may be found just when You speak, and blameless when You judge....Behold, You desire TRUTH in the inward parts, and in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.

The road to repentance in this whole mess is really rather simple.  It doesn't take a huge committee of "leading brethren," to see this happen.  In fact, the more of a group decision it is, the less likely things will work out properly.  The only concern here is the truth.  These men, need to voluntarily acknowledge their transgressions.  To date, they have only admitted to what was proven against them by overwhelming evidence.

They also need to regain a healthy fear of the Lord,  He has seen everything, and it is plain and obvious that He, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, is judging both the man and his "ministry."  

The hidden things need to be brought to light, and when they are, it will be clearly seen, by ACTIONS that the truth is coming to light.

George and many of his servants need to VOLUNTARILY step down.  The truth is that they are disqualified as leaders. They are thouroughly compromised.  They do qualify as sinners, and as such are prime recipients for grace and forgiveness, but this they will not get as long as they insist on pretending to be something they are  not.  This is, at the minimum, what truth in the inward parts entails.

Other men, who are not involved in the actual sins, nee to step UP.  They can not  claim ignorance, because they now know the truth.  If they remain silent and let these false leaders steer them, or intimidate them, then they become sharers in other men's sins.  1Tim 5:22

So, we will know when this really happens.  Telling George he can't preach in Fulllerton, but letting him go preach in China is ludicrous.  This is a bigger lie than that which came before it, and if these leaders allow this, I recommend that the rest of you step out of the way, because God is not mocked.

Brent