Was our Church a Complete Scam or a Partial Scam???

[Bluejay]

I was reading an article on CultNews.Com (posted in January) about a couple named the Edgars in Kansas City.  They apparently were cult leaders in that area.  While being held on charges of murdering their son, it was discovered that they had owned rental property.  They claimed on their income taxes that they were letting people live their rent free.  However, these people living there were not only paying rent, but also were pressured to give up their pay checks.  The district attorneys comments were that they were trying to figure out if this church was a total scam or a partial scam.

Heres my point.  It has been stated that people who lived in the Geftakys home were technically not paying rent, but were instead making a donation.  After reading some articles on the Website, it seems to me that these donations were mandatory.  (see Arthurs personal account that said the donation was $550 per month).  Simply put, if these donations were mandatory, which they were, wouldn't that constitute some sort of verbal agreement that would be binding???
If the Geftakys were indeed not claiming these peoples month to month rent, but were making an income, I got to believe this would be illegal.  

This does not even include the money stolen from the Lords Treasury.  However, if their "donation" scam was exposed, I am sure this would come to light.  

I specifically remember hearing something at the end of each meeting like this...."Their is a box in the back part of the room that goes for the needs of the work and this ministry, blah blah, blah.) If this money was not going toward the needs of the work, that would obviosuly be fraudulent as well.  Personal hobbies and cush lifestyles are not the needs of this work.  

Have the Geftakys' doings ever been reported to the IRS???  Has someone in a position of authority ever investigated these people for their financial misdoings???  Anyone know???  Obviously, with the cush lifestyles they have lead, that would have to draw some red flags.  How can someone life in homes of that value, drive expensive cars, etc. with no reported income.    One of the things that blew me away on my trip to Fullerton 10 years ago was how ridiculously nice that Tim and George's houses and vehicles were.  "The Lord Provides" was the response I heard when I commented on their homes.  Believe me, I'm all about people having nice things, but only when they  legitimately should have them.

I'm pretty sure that George, David, or Tim never won the lottery...And based on one of George's famous stories of how people came and repoed all of his parents belongings when he was a boy, I am quite sure that he probably didn't inherit that money.

Enlighten me...Was our church a complete scam or a partial scam???

[MGov]

Bluejay,

I cannot determine if our Church was a Complete Scam or a Partial Scam on the basis of how the finances were handled.
However, my opinion on the way David G handled the rent in his home, and the way he handled his household, is a shame, and I say shame on him and on anyone else who did the same.

MG

[Bluejay]

The way David G handled rent in his home is criminal.  I am guessing that the same procedure took place at the other Geftakys homes as well - which would also be criminal.  You can't have mandatory "donations" when it comes to rent...That is illegal!!!

[Heide]

ILLEGAL? Interesting use of the word... No taxes being paid, no accounting of the money, always using cash. Looks like a thread...

Money, sex and power are the pitfalls to any church based business (according to Billy Graham) and that is why he doesn't handle the money. He has a CPA do it. Doesn't that sound legal??

Oh yea, big scam. No offense some of you oldtimers... I know it has been said that when this ministry started that B&G weren't evil or corrupted but I think you are wrong. For some odd reason EVERY church where George had been, he left under a cloud. So he starts his own. How much more corrupt do you have to be to be preaching your own doctrine? The past really speaks for itself...

Heide

[David Mauldin]

I think I learned some priceless things in the Assembly.
Yet I also have some wounds that  will/may never heal.
I think George may have multiple personalities.  There is the George that believes he's 'the Lords' servant".  There is the George who is a con-man etc...  Has anyone ever read up on the Jim Jones group?  Or David Koresh?  These people seemed to have very similar experiences in other words were "Born again" and genuinly trying to "Walk with the Lord! "Obey the scriptures" etc.. What do you think?

[Bluejay]

I don't believe that George has multiple personalities...The con man in George knows that people will only give him money if he acts like "the Lords servant"....Probably the only reason his son Tim Geftakys went along with this act was that the money was to good to pass up...Lets face the fact - he wouldn't have came close to making that money anywhere else.  Tim wasn't near as good as putting on a show as George was...George at least could come across as caring.  Tim came across as brash and arrogant.  At the end of the day, I don't care what their intentions were...They both were involved in criminal activity.

They are both scum bags.

[al Hartman]

...God lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.


Hello, all,

     There hasn't been a reason for me to post on this thread until now.  Heide just almost mentioned me by name.
     NO!-- not the paragraph about money, sex and power!!! The paragraph after that:
     i am one of those "oldtimers" that Heide thinks are wrong about thinking that GG & co. weren't evil back in the early days.  Well, write down the date, because i'm about to go on record:

     When i signed onto this BB a few short months ago, i
 was appalled by the accusations i saw leveled against George, Betty, David and Timothy.  Because when i left in 1980, i walked away from "the Lord's servant" and "the Lord's work."  
     i posted my concerns, and was met with a hailstorm of protests in response.  i tried to clarify my case, but it just kept hailing.  So i made the dispute a matter of concerned prayer.

                       PLEASE DON'T MISS THIS:

     The Lord answered my prayers by using this Bulletin Board & the GA website to open my eyes to reality that i had buried away from my conscious memory over 20 years ago.  Gradually i began to realize that i had been so willing to believe in what i was involved with that i had ignored evidence that is now, in retrospect, so clear to me that i am ashamed to have not recognized it.
     My conclusion is, whether GG became evil or was born that way, his condition had set in before i met him, and i never knew him as a Godly man, no matter what i thought at that time.  i can also say that i am certain that Betty, David and Tim were fixed upon their paths before i left, although i had failed to see it then.

     So i must concur with Heide:  i was wrong about them going from good to bad.  The work in which i was involved, the "testimony" of which i was part, was corrupted all the while.


     My big concern at the present time is that some posters are saying that the BB has outlived its usefulness.  The BB has been the instrument by which i have been delivered from blindness and brought into the revelation of my Lord's great grace.  And that is a work still in progress.  And i'm not alone.
     Almost every day there are new people registering here, some of whom are in great pain and need.  Just because YOU no longer need the BB, rejoice! but don't take it away from those whom it may yet help.
     Just today a dear brother who used to live in my house signed in here.  i have been wondering for two decades what had become of him.  Now perhaps we can be reunited.

     Sure, i think some posters are too brash, haughty, arrogant, or whatever, but i guess God can handle them (you)--  He took care of me, and i was surely no blue ribbon prize!  

     It's when we begin to comprehend what we have become IN HIM that the bad traits fade and the new creation begins to show.  i'll wait for that in you if you'll wait for it in me.  Together, then, let us not neglect so great salvation,

al Hartman

[BeckyW]

I think you're right, Al.  This bb has certainly not out lived it's usefulness.  It's all about communicating.  Exchanging thoughts, ideas, concerns, experiences.  Many of us have been slammed in the past for "saying it wrong".  So we stopped trying.  Well, making the effort to at least try to honestly express our thoughts should be encouraged.  The bb is a forum where we can learn from each other.  God has grace for all of us, no matter where we are in the discovery process of learning just what we have been involved with and supporting all this time. He even has grace for all the leaders who don't see yet that they've done anything wrong.

Saved, by grace, and enjoying it more all the time,
Becky

[Heide]

Hey Dave,

You know there is an old saying "Time heals ALL wounds." In time you won't remember all the petty, cruddy little dealings with the assembly because our human nature is too forget the bad and replace it with something good, something palatable. Talk about corny, I switched coffee the other day and on the first sip it took me back to the sisters house in SLO. Good memories of sitting in the living room drinking coffee and laughing. Something I hadn't thought about in years.  

Throw out all those little sayings "I'm walking with the Lord, obey the scriptures, rejoice sister/brother, Lord Bless You." I found everytime I said it or even thought it, it brought up all this assembly garbage. I also found that in the last two/three years I didn't want a church that only talked doctrine. I've had enough doctrine to last me a lifetime! I wanted to hear about Jesus. I haven't found a church that does that.

I'm not trying to be presumptious Dave but it sounds like we are looking for the same thing, a life that makes sense.

Heide

P.S. You hit the nail on the head. George is a con-man. Con-vict, con-artist. He is the actor capable of playing many parts. I believe in saying that he could have multi-person you are taking the responsiblity off of him and putting it on a sickness. He needs to be responsible for his actions.

[jackhutchinson]

Al,

Glad to hear you've seen things a little clearer lately.  I still liked your post where you explained the relative lack of control at the VERY beginning.  I likened it to a honeymoon.  The assemblies in the Midwest were a bit more free at first too.  Perhaps GG was willing to be lax at the beginning to lure people into the fold/prison.  New visitors/victims were commonly given slack until they were emotionally attached to all the people that showed such acceptance.  I guess the same is true for assemblies as a whole.

Jack

[David Mauldin]

While were on the subject, Sunday I was visiting the Fullerton library.  I walked past a small grassy area where "the/we saints use to eat lunch between the mtgs.  My memories went back 20 years!  Suddenly I looked up there were a group of "Saints" (Tim G. Dennis Hittle, Curt Miles, Rex ? and few more) all at a bench eating lunch. I couldn't help laughing out loud as I waved to them.  These guys are in their 50s still playing assembly! THANK YOU JESUSE< THANK YOU JESUS FOR SAVING ME!

[Bluejay]

While were on the subject, Sunday I was visiting the Fullerton library.  I walked past a small grassy area where "the/we saints use to eat lunch between the mtgs.  My memories went back 20 years!  Suddenly I looked up there were a group of "Saints" (Tim G. Dennis Hittle, Curt Miles, Rex ? and few more) all at a bench eating lunch. I couldn't help laughing out loud as I waved to them.  These guys are in their 50s still playing assembly! THANK YOU JESUSE< THANK YOU JESUS FOR SAVING ME!

The CIA has concluded that this person mentioned was a stunt double and not the real Tim Geftakys for the following reasons:

1.  The real Tim Geftakys would never eat lunch on a library park bench when plenty of local buffets are open - where he could eat non stop all day.

2.  Intelligence photographs showed three people on one side of the bench, and three people on the other side of the bench.  In order to balance the table, and keep it from flipping over, the real Tim Geftakys would have to sit by himself on one side, and the other five people on the other side.

Please be aware that Tim Geftakys has at least two other look alike  (Jabba the Hut and Fat Albert) stunt doubles.  

[al Hartman]

Saints and maybe-saints,

     Just a brief testimony:  Some years ago, i admitted to myself that i complained a lot.  It occurred to me that, since complaining never seemed to resolve anything, i should probably at least try to pray as much as i complained.
     i tried it for a while, but found that it laid such a heavy schedule of prayer on me that there wasn't enough time in the day.  That's how i learned to quit bellyaching.  Now i have plenty of time for prayer (which accomplishes far more than the complaints ever did).

Try it,
al

[vbeers]

al-

will you please stop trying to tell people what to do, say and / or feel???  i have asked nicely and others have contended but you just don't seem to get the message.  so, now i am being straight forward with high hopes that you will read and understand...

thank you.

[vernecarty]

 Suddenly I looked up there were a group of "Saints" (Tim G. Dennis Hittle, Curt Miles, Rex ?

Curt Miles the "Gentle Giant" is still around?!!!
Un-freaking-believable!! (like that word MGov?). Some things never change huh?
Verne