Was our Church a Complete Scam or a Partial Scam???

[MGov]

Un-freaking-believable!! (like that word MGov?).
Verne

It took a bit of analysis on my part. I concluded that it means unbelievable with freaking in between.  I must be get used to your jargon.

MG

[vernecarty]

Un-freaking-believable!! (like that word MGov?).
Verne

It took a bit of analysis on my part. I concluded that it means unbelievable with freaking in between.  I must be get used to your jargon.

MG

Good job! Conversely, so unbelievable as to cause one to like... totally freak...
Verne

[David Mauldin]

Yes it is sad and scarry to think that these guys are still doing the assembly thing. One of the guys on that bench went through a horrible divorce. His wife told him over and over you are in a cult, George is a fraud!
He took a bold stand, "No" "I'm just following the Lord!"  It really took a toll on him and his relationship with his children. Today what must he be going through?  George was a fraud? She was right?!!! The last 30 years of my life have been a wrong choice?  Like many people who've I've talked with cannot bring themselves to admit they were dupped by George.  Its too hard, it questions the very foundation they have based their lives upon for so long. Those of us who made it out have a lot to be thankful for!  And thats why I say "Thank You Jesus!"

[vernecarty]

. One of the guys on that bench went through a horrible divorce. His wife told him over and over you are in a cult, George is a fraud!
He took a bold stand, "No" "I'm just following the Lord!"  It really took a toll on him and his relationship with his children.

Dave; here is something that bugs the you-know-what out of me.
That marriage was not the only one George and Betty destroyed.
Why did  these people not see the FRUIT of George's so-called ministry. WHY DID THEY NOT SEE THE FRUIT?!!!!!!!
Verne

[David Mauldin]

Vern I think the longer you stay the more you have to lose by leaving. These guys have invested their whole lives.  Some have no life outside the assembly and like ouselves would have to start all over on so many levels. Yet leaving would be the better choice. How long were you in fellowship?  

[vernecarty]

How long were you in fellowship?  

I was in full bore about five years. I woke up one morning and the Lord said so clearly to me: "What are you doing here??" I remember having some misgivings (although I had made up my mind to leave); remember all that hogwash about loosing the inheritance? Boy was I bamboozled!
I have a few clear instances in which I know the Lord sopke powerfully and clearly to me. He did so that day from Psalm 16: 5-6:
The Lord is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup: thou maintainest my lot.
 The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places; yea, I have a goodly heritage...

When the Lord of Glory speaks to you Dave, it shakes you to the very atoms! I have  never been the same my friend...never looked back. How faithful He has been to me...I owe Him everthing...
Verne
p.s. I do not for one minute think this makes me somehow special...no question the Lord spoke to many others about that den of iniquity...question is why did so few listen...?

[Arlene]

...
That marriage was not the only one George and Betty destroyed.
Why did  these people not see the FRUIT of George's so-called ministry. WHY DID THEY NOT SEE THE FRUIT?!!!!!!!
Verne

Why?
I ask my self that question meny times.  Why did I not see this, that or the other...
I sow meny things that made my heart cry out ' this is not right' and I voiced alot to my husband.  If I did not have such a strong conviction about marriage I would have left Tim years ago.
There was a comment George made to Tim when he (Tim) was driving George and Samuel to Champaign about me that I had no idea was made untill about a month ago.  George was upset that I had not engage in a conversation with Samuel and made the remark, 'that wife of yours" to Tim.  Also George always greeted Tim by his name but never greeted me by name, it was always 'sister'.
Twenty eight years of ones life is a long time to give to something that turns out to be so full of lies and deception.  But what troubles me the most is to hear by children battle with growing up in all this mess.
God is greater that any person and His healing is such a comfort.
The Lord bless you.  

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  I would like to make a general announcement that I think would fit quite nice on this thread.

         GOOD REASONS TO STICK WITH THE BB

  I have been on several BB's that have to do with recovery from cults/abusive churches in the past 12 years and this BB is far and away the very best I've been on.  
  On one of the BB's I was the only Evangelical Christian who posted, and if you read most of the posts there you would have thought that my posting was ignored.  For every poster on a BB there are probably a 100 lurkers who only read.  On the BB I mention above I was privately contacted and had the privilege of helping some folks, who had been in some pretty nasty cults, with faith in Christ.
  Al's testimony should be a great encouragement to those who think the BB is of little use and only an opportunity for gainsayers to misdirect confused exassemblites. Al, after many years, due to this site, discovered that he did not "fail" when he left.  He also found that GG had twisted the Gospel, and that in fact Jesus never left him for his lack of performance in the GG merit system!
  In the other BB's I was on nobody ever heard of The Assembly.  On this BB we are all Assembly-- all the time!  I check the member list and discover old friends from years ago and we have opportunity to talk and help one another.  Some, Like Al, left before GG's fall, Brent's internet posting, Enroth, etc.  These individuals have an opportunity to be lifted by us on the BB, who with great empathy, can assist them.
  Yes, there are those who have lost faith in the Gospel who will post, as well as those who have an agenda to promote false teaching.  The light of the Gospel has never been mastered by the darkness and as we try to present the truth of the Grace of God the Holy Spirit will work His miraculous power in those that read.
  It is also important in our recovery to develop independent thinking skills.  As we try to answer those who post thoughts that are contrary to the truth our own understanding is made clearer (iron sharpens iron).  This discernment brings a greater confidence and joy to our daily lives.  Doctrine (teaching) is the means whereby we experience life in Christ and thinking is the only means to assimilate teaching.  Doctrine is not dead and dry, but the revelation of the riches in Christ Jesus, our inheritance.
   For many long years I had wished for such an opportunity to reach out to my dear friends from the Assembly and now here it is.  Personally, I'm am not discouraged, but rather, encouraged at what God can do with such a forum.  Pray that God would continue to use it to touch many hearts with his healing message of grace.
                       God Bless,  Mark
 

[vernecarty]

Verne
Why?
I ask my self that question meny times.  Why did I not see this, that or the other...
I sow meny things that made my heart cry out ' this is not right' and I voiced alot to my husband.

Dear Arlene:
I realize I run the unhealthful risk of sounding somewhat condemnatory is raising some of the questions I do. I have nothing but the deepest respect and love for those saints (you and Tim included) who survived George with their faith entirely intact, and the courage to identify that situation for what it was.
Without exception, these queries of mine take square aim not so much at the rank and file of people in that ministry, but rather the constituted leadership. They were responsible.
I still remember how close I came to being put in that position and shudder to think of the burden I would bear had I remained. Would I have been faithful?? I don't even want to think about it...
 I know there are some who stayed only because of their love for the flock- men I know personally who agonized over what they saw and knew. The aim of my repeated challenge is to remind myself and others, particularly those with spiritual responsibility, what posture we should take with the Georges of the world. There will undoubtedly be more.
I am so encouraged by your candor Arlene, God is able to heal all wounds with scar-less newness! He is faithful!
Verne  

[jackhutchinson]

I've been enjoying the posts on this thread.  Here are some of my thoughts:

If you liken a church to a flock of sheep lying down on green pastures I'd say we were SHEEP GRAZING ON ASTROTURF.  George, et al reminded us constantly that the grass we were having a hard time digesting was such a rich source of nutrition that it wasn't available anywhere else.  We figured that if we just kept eating it someday our bodies would grow accustomed to it.

The ministry didn't die - it never had life to begin with.

Jack

[Amy Denny]

I agree with much of what Mark just said.

If you base the group on GG&Co. I would say scam complete.
If you look to the many wonderful, genuinely good people that we all had/have the privilege to know,
I would call that one of life's little blessings.
I've been out over 12 years was envolved for over 7. I still have bitterness that plagues me.
But am so grateful for the many people that truly loved me and that I love.

I think our anger is appropriate.
Mostly, I am angry at myself for my following so blindly.
This anger will hopefully be the thing that will keep me from doing it again.
It should cause each of us to find out who god is on our own (maybe that's what he wanted all along)
We need to stepback and figure out how much of all this stuff is really God's stuff and how much was GG&Co.'s way of keeping us in check. "For I have not the spirit of fear..."
I agree with the person who said that the trigger phrases make me ill. I have had to drop all of that jargon - you do realize it was part of the brain washing. the trigger phrases cause certain feelings/behavior/guilt? get rid of it! (my suggestion only)  
I am not however angry for loving and for having been loved. it saved my life at the time.
I suppose that is why I never tried to persuade anyone to leave with me. Who am I to say what god will use to cause growth in someone's life. I was aware of some of the abuses. wondered about others. You know, pastors and priest often have flings with the church secretaries and people they are counseling. Is God not still God?
I am in no way making excuse for horrendous behavior. Geo. truly is a bad man. (a wolf in sheep's clothing) but unlike the Jim Jones episode - we're still breathing.
I have always only felt bad for the children. As adults, we chose to follow. The children we're (often) beat into submission. Their fresh spirits knew better... But you know what - God is still God. The pain we experience in life will either make us or break us. If we choose we can only become stronger from all of this. (Even the children).
amy

[vernecarty]

I've been enjoying the posts on this thread.  Here are some of my thoughts: If you liken a church to a flock of sheep lying down on green pastures  I'd say we were SHEEP GRAZING ON ASTROTURF  

Thanks for the ovine (I do not say bovine!) analogy Jack. We would have needed a couple of extra stomachs to digest what George dished out...!

 

The ministry didn't die - it never had life to begin with.

Talk about cud-ing to the chase...!
Verne

[Kimberley Tobin]

I truly appreciated what Amy had to say.  As a mother, one of my greatest regrets is what I put my children through.  Particularly my 16 year old daughter.  She was the one I felt suffered the most abuse.  But, what she and I have both had to work through, is an understanding of the sovereignty of God.   This is truly not understood in the assembly - if it was then people wouldn't be pointing at any individual and "blaming" them for "bringing down" the assembly - God "sovereignly" brought down the various assemblies at His good pleasure.

In order to move on from our assembly experiences, we must come through what I believe are certain lessons.  One of those is understanding that God is sovereign.  He could have snatched us at any time from that place.  He didn't.  Rom 8:28, God causes all things to work together for good.  He has His purposes in it all.  When I came to dwell (and I am still dwelling) on this GREAT TRUTH, what peace!  What rest for my soul!  He is sovereign, He is good.  He is going to use it all for His purposes!  How incredible!  It does not mean that I don't still experience pain.  There is daily pain.  Pain from lost relationships.  Pain from missing my dear friends so deeply it physically hurts.  But God is in the pain too.  And He is teaching me.  He is not done with me.  But thankfully, I have great hope.  Not hope in myself, for I am nothing, my hope is in my savior, He is well able to perfect that which concerns me and His grace is sufficient for me, even in this most difficult time.  And I am trusting in Him to bring me victoriously through this situation to a place of healing, hope, joy, restoration, knowing that He has a great plan for my life and the lives of my children.

[Mark Kisla]

Thank You Kimberly !
I agree whole heartedly with you. What has happened to us is very sad, but what an opportunity for us if we let God have His way.
Personally I have found comfort in Romans 6:16-22
G&BG were wicked taskmasters, but now we are free.
This BB has been a blessing to me because the testimonies shared are filling missing pieses of the puzzle of what we were involved in.  Seeing the big picture of what went on is liberating.
10 yrs ago my employer sent me to Canada for 3 months, while there I met a dear Christian man who invited me to his nondemonational church for worship. The people there were genuine and their love for God obvious. Then I was introduced to their visiting leader. He was another George (20 yrs. younger) act. He tried to tell me my salvation was lacking, I told him to take it up with God that the death of his Son was not enough for me. It was just like the assembly, same format ! I told my new Christian friend that this guy will put you in bondage. I am trying to locate him to hook him up with this BB and maybe it can save some people from a lot of grief.

[Joe Sperling]

A complete scam or a partial scam? Do we ever say "Oh that person is partially dead"? Or "I'm partially sick" or "I'm partially married"? I think the Assembly was a scam from the beginning. Maybe "scam" is the wrong word to use though. I'm not sure if George from the beginning had some horrific plan in mind. But I believe he was a heretic, and the fruits of a heretic are clearly known through time. From the very beginning George had a set of teachings that were at odds with what the Bible actually teaches.

I read a book once which said that the best counterfeit is one that most closely resembles the true. This is obvious, but the Assembly closely resembled the truth in many ways.
We believed in the Trinity, that Jesus was the Son of God, that he died on the cross for our sins, etc... So, a counterfeit dollar can look just like a real dollar until you closely examine it and see what kind of paper it is made of.

"By their fruits ye shall know them" said the Lord. The Assembly closely resembled a true church until you looked at what it was made of. It had teachings which lead to severe bondage. It had a pastor that was far more than a pastor. He was really a "ruler". It took "salvation" and belittled it as only an "entrance", not a finished work. It replaced the Holy Spirit with "works"---so many meetings and time devoted that you were more like zombies than real people.

I've often wondered if George instituted so many meetings to keep himself in line. "Maybe if I have to Always attend meetings, and all day Sundays I'll stay away from all the evil I so long to do". Since he couldn't control himself, he instituted a whole set of "works" to help keep himself in check.

I believe the Assembly was a complete heresy from the beginning because how could there ever be a "partial heresy"? It was just camoflauged so well, a counterfeit church that really looked the part. A church not set up by God, but by a man who wanted to be in the forefront and in power. This was a man who wanted to run the show. He really had very little concern for the flock, this is shown by the amount of abuse suffered by so many under his "leadership". It was a Nicolaitin church which the Lord said in Revelation that he hates. Nico: to lord over  laitin:
the laity or the church. Defintition of a Nicolaitin: One who lords it over the flock. This was the Assembly in a nutshell.

--Joe